INCEPTION Discussion Thread (***Spoilers!!!***)
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plasmid303
Super Freak
Hold on a second, that all makes sense except for the part about Fischer. How did Fischer travel downwards a dream level if he was shot and killed on the level prior?
Darth Caedus
Formerly Congerking
I asked my friend that RIGHT when we left and we never got that answer
meth head
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well if he is sedated he cant go back upto level 1 right, he has to enter limbo no?
plasmid303
Super Freak
That's what I assumed, but Dino's post says that the level Cobb and Ariadne found Fischer in was not limbo, but a fourth dream level. How else would Cobb and Ariadne have been able to travel there? You can't just hook yourself up to a dream machine and access limbo.
meth head
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No i think he means it is limbo but they are lucid dreamers in it, they dont actually belong there, they are not trapped there like fischer
Your "straight forward explanation" requires ignoring some pretty substantial logic, which has already been discussed ad nauseum. Besides, there isn't much of anything "straight forward" in a narrative that deals with dreams within dreams and altered states of reality.
And that speaks for itself.
plasmid303
Super Freak
Oh I read Dino's post incorrectly!
Now I feel a little silly. I should've worded my previous post better.
meth head
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Oh I read Dino's post incorrectly!
I dont think anybody should feel silly about trying to unlock the story behind this movie
plasmid303
Super Freak
I've decided to watch this again tomorrow. I almost never see a movie twice in theaters (because it's pricey), but I think I need to in this case.
plasmid303
Super Freak
i am going for my 3rd time on friday afternoon
That's almost the price of a blu-ray disc (at least here. It's $8 for me per movie ticket here)! But I guess Inception would be one of the few movies in which I'd feel okay with that. This was Nolan's scheme all along.Actually, going back to what we were discussing earlier, I wish the film did a better job establishing that Cobb died of Mal's stabbing. It didn't seem like he even experienced any pain at all. A close up shot of the wound and his reaction to it would've been nice for clarity.
meth head
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Actually, going back to what we were discussing earlier, I wish the film did a better job establishing that Cobb died of Mal's stabbing. It didn't seem like he even experienced any pain at all. A close up shot of the wound and his reaction to it would've been nice for clarity.
Absolutely! I think that has been left for us to work out rather than the film really explain that or atleast plant that seed, i was also a little confused as to knowing whos dream we were in, i wasnt sure that was well explained, for example i didnt realise that the mountain layer was Eames dream, how was that made apparent?
plasmid303
Super Freak
Yeah, sometimes I wish I could just watch this film with subtitles on (have to wait for the dvd!). A lot of the details are in the dialogue, which can be easily missed. It's not just this film either. There are many films of this type that, if you miss even a few snippets of dialogue, can throw the viewer for a loop.
civiclx
Super Freak
Extraction, inception, limbo..._____* all that. I think Saito should have just had someone bust a cap in Fischer Jr's ass
What do you mean? The straight forward interpretation I am talking about is the story as it unfolds without making the jump that what the movie presents as reality is really a dream. That is totally without basis, and outside of the "straightforward story" that the movie presents. And if you have been reading this thread in recent pages, what has been discussed "ad nauseum" is not in conflict with the point I am making.
Maybe you are just misunderstanding me.
And that speaks for itself.
No need to be condescending.
Why can't faith be a solid concept presented in a movie. I am not saying the whole movie is built on that, I am saying that Cobb's journey is about faith, and letting go of guilt. That journey is at the heart of the movie. Why is that over thinking it?
Did you actually read the Dileep Rao interview?
https://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/07/inceptions_dileep_rao_answers.html
Grrr. I just can't let this go: What is the supposed "substantial logic" that I am ignoring? That the kids are wearing the same clothes? The dream-like quality of the ending montage? Like Dileep Rao said in the interview, kids wear the same clothes all the time.
And having never seen there faces before, and not knowing how long Cobb was gone, we can't say that they are too young to be real.I really would like to know what you are basing your theory on. What evidence within the movie amounts to such "substantial logic"?
The stuff that makes the ending seem a little fishy was left in by Noland on purpose. It makes this kind of discussion possible, but he did not give anything indisputable to support the "it's all a dream theory." Like Dileep Rao said: "The problem for me is that you're using negative evidence to support a story that isn't there."
I really do believe that Cobb knew for a fact that the top would fall. I believe he was right. But some viewers will still be plagued by doubt.
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It seems that there are three camps here.
1) Those who accept the "straightforward story" as presented here:
2) Those who think that the real world is the first level dream. Meaning that the whole movie takes place inside Cobb's mind, and we never see the real character on screen. This is completely speculative and there is no internal evidence for it. Like Dileep Rao said, that takes it into the realm of philosophy, and then you are no longer having a discussion about the movie.
3) Those who accept the "straightforward" explanation only up to the point that Cobb "wakes up" on the plane. The only evidence I can see for this is: 1) The kids and Michael Caine are wearing the same clothes. (I wear the same clothes lots of times, that doesn't make me a figment of your imagination.) 2) The kids may be to small. 3) We don't actually see the top fall, even though it clearly starts to wobble. Did I leave any out?
I would like to ask this 3rd group to explain the mechanism by which Cobb was propelled into this new "dream world" with his kids. Some have said that perhaps it is due to an inception done by Ellen Page's character. That sounds interesting, but unless I missed something, there is no tangible basis for assuming that.
I am actually open to this 3rd line of thought (unlike the "it's all a dream" theory.) I just need a real reason to give it some validity.
I will be seeing the film again on Sunday and will look for clues to support the 3rd groups theory.
1) Those who accept the "straightforward story" as presented here:
2) Those who think that the real world is the first level dream. Meaning that the whole movie takes place inside Cobb's mind, and we never see the real character on screen. This is completely speculative and there is no internal evidence for it. Like Dileep Rao said, that takes it into the realm of philosophy, and then you are no longer having a discussion about the movie.
3) Those who accept the "straightforward" explanation only up to the point that Cobb "wakes up" on the plane. The only evidence I can see for this is: 1) The kids and Michael Caine are wearing the same clothes. (I wear the same clothes lots of times, that doesn't make me a figment of your imagination.) 2) The kids may be to small. 3) We don't actually see the top fall, even though it clearly starts to wobble. Did I leave any out?
I would like to ask this 3rd group to explain the mechanism by which Cobb was propelled into this new "dream world" with his kids. Some have said that perhaps it is due to an inception done by Ellen Page's character. That sounds interesting, but unless I missed something, there is no tangible basis for assuming that.
I am actually open to this 3rd line of thought (unlike the "it's all a dream" theory.) I just need a real reason to give it some validity.
I will be seeing the film again on Sunday and will look for clues to support the 3rd groups theory.
tomandshell
Blue Flame of the West/Mod
The entire Mombasa sequence--with the agents chasing Cobb around, the buildings closing in on him as he tries to escape, and Saito miraculously waiting for him on the other side--all feels like a dream to me. It's subtle but it feels like enough of a heightened reality that there are people who interpret it as being dream level one.
Now combine that with Mal's point of view and her leap of faith, and you have plenty of clues within the film that suggest to us that the reality presented to the audience is not reality at all. I think that Nolan carefully crafted the film to work with multiple interpretations, and I would disagree with the actor's position that there is nothing within the film itself that suggests that "reality" is all a dream. We have one of the characters saying that exact thing! To say that such an interpretation is too philosophical and that you are "no longer having a discussion about the movie" ignores pretty much every scene with Mal, and a great deal of her dialogue. It's explicitly shown to be Cobb's struggle throughout the film.
Now combine that with Mal's point of view and her leap of faith, and you have plenty of clues within the film that suggest to us that the reality presented to the audience is not reality at all. I think that Nolan carefully crafted the film to work with multiple interpretations, and I would disagree with the actor's position that there is nothing within the film itself that suggests that "reality" is all a dream. We have one of the characters saying that exact thing! To say that such an interpretation is too philosophical and that you are "no longer having a discussion about the movie" ignores pretty much every scene with Mal, and a great deal of her dialogue. It's explicitly shown to be Cobb's struggle throughout the film.
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