INCEPTION Discussion Thread (***Spoilers!!!***)

[BadMoon]

Don't all of Nolans movies end with the actual title? IE Memento, Dark Knight, ect?

 

[SnakeDoctor]

guys...in the van scene (at the end of the van scene) ...when the folks wake up after the van crashes into the water, the rich dude climbs out of the water and he is chatting with his dad's right hand man. But that guy was not present in the van scene dream sequence, he was present in the dream below that...

am I missing something?

He was present--they pulled him out in the van garage as a hostage and he talked to Fischer before they all drove away. They planted the idea that he was in on it and then went down to level two (hotel) where he was no longer a hostage but was instead spotted walking in the hotel lobby.

Not sure if this question has been answered. It wasn't the right-hand man ... he was never there, never kidnapped, never involved in a shared dream.

The only times the right-hand-man (Tom Berenger) appears in a dream world is as a forgery, or as a creation of Fisher's mind.

- When Berenger was brought in as a hostage, it was Eames as a Berenger forgery. You even see Eames do the initial screaming as Berenger's character.
- In the hotel (when you see Eames and Berenger at the same time), it was a projection of Berenger in Fisher's mind. Eames even has shake off one of his cohorts who starts talking to Berenger as if he were Eames.
- On the shore, it was the forger (Eames) disguised as Berenger. That's the role of a "forger", to steal identities. He disguised himself as the right-hand-man to plant the inception (and as the blonde at the bar).

If you watch the scene where Berenger and Fisher are talking on the shore after the van hits the water, at the very end of that scene the camera shows Berenger talking, pans past Fisher's shoulder (where Berenger's face is obscured), and when the camera emerges on the other side, Berenger's face is replaced with Eames's.

(By the way ... this also coincides with the "Inception as an allegory for movie-making" in that the forger would be an actor, playing a part.)

SnakeDoc

 

[BadMoon]

I'm slowly reading through this entire threading and loving all the discussion!! A few quick thoughts:

1. if Nolan ended the movie with the top falling, or not showing the top spin at all, we wouldn't have 32 pages of discussion. THAT is the brilliance of his ending.

2. I love the idea that Nolan showing the top at the end is his Inception on the audience. What is also interesting is as soon as the screen turns to black, the word INCEPTION pops up on the screen.

3. Regarding the mention that DiCaprio framed his character on Nolan, and that the entire movie is an allegory to filmmaking, that is interesting only in that at least 3 times I thought I was watching Nolan on screen instead of DiCaprio. In particular in the scene when you first see Cobb in the hotel in the 2nd level of dreaming. He looked EXACTLY like Nolan.

4. Regarding the RING theory, very interesting. I have only seen the movie once, so I will need to watch this more closely upon a second viewing, but I read somewhere that in the scene where Mal jumps, Cobb is NOT wearing the ring. Now some may argue that that is because he is not dreaming, but that wouldn't make sense since at that point, he is still married to Mal.

5. I found it interesting that Caine's character knew to meet Cobb at the airport. Further, I find it even more interesting that he was practically expecting Cobb to show up, like he was involved somehow. If he truly was part of the plan, you would think that he would have been ecstatic to see Cobb show up. "Wow, you pulled it off!! Congrats!!!" or something like that...

Can't wait to see this again!!

So, I was talking to a work colleague today about the movie. She said she enjoyed it and really enjoyed it visually. So I started talking about some of my theories on the film and how brililant it was and she said "I don't get stressed out about what is real or not in the movie, I have better things to do with my life."

You are wrong 1,2,3,4,5 is all wrong.

Spoiler

!!!INCEPTION!!!

 

[Maglor]

Not sure if this question has been answered. It wasn't the right-hand man ... he was never there, never kidnapped, never involved in a shared dream.

The only times the right-hand-man (Tom Berenger) appears in a dream world is as a forgery, or as a creation of Fisher's mind.

- When Berenger was brought in as a hostage, it was Eames as a Berenger forgery. You even see Eames do the initial screaming as Berenger's character.
- In the hotel (when you see Eames and Berenger at the same time), it was a projection of Berenger in Fisher's mind. Eames even has shake off one of his cohorts who starts talking to Berenger as if he were Eames.
- On the shore, it was the forger (Eames) disguised as Berenger. That's the role of a "forger", to steal identities. He disguised himself as the right-hand-man to plant the inception (and as the blonde at the bar).

If you watch the scene where Berenger and Fisher are talking on the shore after the van hits the water, at the very end of that scene the camera shows Berenger talking, pans past Fisher's shoulder (where Berenger's face is obscured), and when the camera emerges on the other side, Berenger's face is replaced with Eames's.

SnakeDoc

Correct.

 

[Maglor]

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I agree with what they say at the end about how disorienting it is... or rather isn't. Memento is much more of a mind screw. And there are others.

Ever seen Primer? That movie will really give you a case of the WTF's


But, Inception manages to be both that kind of movie and a big blockbuster with amazing special effects. That makes it unique, and I applaud Noland's achievement.

 

[IrishJedi]

A cool thing I acquired at SDCC. Signed goodness:

 

[Maglor]

^^Can't tell what it is, but I can tell I'm jealous.

 

[Reinhardt]

It's the shooting script for Inception.

https://www.amazon.com/Inception-Sh...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280167631&sr=8-1

Very cool Irish!

 

[IrishJedi]

^^Can't tell what it is, but I can tell I'm jealous.

It's the Shooting Script (with notes and storyboards)... signed by Chris Nolan. 1 of only 40 signed copies (there will be a regular, unsigned printing of 5,000 total).

 

[plasmid303]

Inception is the #1 film at the box office two weeks in a row. Take that, SALT!

So far in it's two weeks, Inception has made $143.6 million. (Or $228 million worldwide.)

https://io9.com/5596189/inception-passes-the-most-important-test-the-second-weekend-box-office

 

[SnakeDoctor]

It took me a little while to figure out where I knew Eames from ...

SnakeDoc

 

[CelticPredator]

.

What the ____? Where did you get that? I made that ____ing thing!

 

[CelticPredator]

Lighten up a little. If we don't make our points like we believe we are right we don't have much of a discussion do we.


Just don't take it so seriously.

Shut up asswipe.










But in all serial...that's what the point of the movie was too me. To just end it saying "Oh he woke up. The end" is not what Nolan intended. It's not open and shut like that. It has meaning. That's the meaning of the movie. To appreciate what you have. To not worry all the time. To just live your life without fear, or regret.

 

[blakus939]

Not sure if this question has been answered. It wasn't the right-hand man ... he was never there, never kidnapped, never involved in a shared dream.

The only times the right-hand-man (Tom Berenger) appears in a dream world is as a forgery, or as a creation of Fisher's mind.

- When Berenger was brought in as a hostage, it was Eames as a Berenger forgery. You even see Eames do the initial screaming as Berenger's character.
- In the hotel (when you see Eames and Berenger at the same time), it was a projection of Berenger in Fisher's mind. Eames even has shake off one of his cohorts who starts talking to Berenger as if he were Eames.
- On the shore, it was the forger (Eames) disguised as Berenger. That's the role of a "forger", to steal identities. He disguised himself as the right-hand-man to plant the inception (and as the blonde at the bar).

If you watch the scene where Berenger and Fisher are talking on the shore after the van hits the water, at the very end of that scene the camera shows Berenger talking, pans past Fisher's shoulder (where Berenger's face is obscured), and when the camera emerges on the other side, Berenger's face is replaced with Eames's.

(By the way ... this also coincides with the "Inception as an allegory for movie-making" in that the forger would be an actor, playing a part.)

SnakeDoc

Doesn't he appear as himself when Eames and that actually walk right passed him in the hotel lobby area once they move down a new layer?

 

[plasmid303]

Doesn't he appear as himself when Eames and that actually walk right passed him in the hotel lobby area once they move down a new layer?

That's Fischer's projection of Berenger.

Anyway, just found another Inception timeline pic:

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Doesn't he appear as himself when Eames and that actually walk right passed him in the hotel lobby area once they move down a new layer?

No. He's a subconscious projection created by Fisher. The real guy isn't tapped into the dream. The only real people in any of the dreams are Eames, Cobb, the kid from 3rd Rock, Scarecrow, the oriental fella, Kitty Pride and Yusuf. Anyone else is either a forgery (Berenger in dream 1, the blonde girl in dream 2), or a projection.

If you watch a second time, listen for Eames' plan for the inception ... the idea is for Eames to forge the identity of Berenger and plant the inception in the first dream level (the Michael Mann level) so that Fisher's subconscious creates the character by itself for the lower levels. Apparently the oriental fella didn't catch that part ... which is why he started talking to Berenger thinking it was "Eames forging Berenger" in the hotel lobby (a misconception that was quickly countered when Eames came around the corner behind the subconscious projection of Berenger).

SnakeDoc

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Leonardo DiCaprio ... Cobb
Joseph Gordon-Levitt ... Arthur
Ellen Page ... Ariadne
Tom Hardy ... Eames
Ken Watanabe ... Saito
Dileep Rao ... Yusuf
Cillian Murphy ... Robert Fischer, Jr.
Tom Berenger ... Browning
Marion Cotillard ... Mal
Pete Postlethwaite ... Maurice Fischer
Michael Caine ... Miles
Lukas Haas ... Nash
Tai-Li Lee ... Tadashi
Claire Geare ... Phillipa (3 years)
Magnus Nolan ... James (20 months)
Taylor Geare ... Phillipa (5 years)
Johnathan Geare ... James (3 years)
Tohoru Masamune ... Japanese Security Guard

For what its worth, IMDB cast for Inception lists two different sets of kids 2-years apart in age (presumably one set for the dreams, and one set for the homecoming). The fact that the kids at the end were older seems to suggest reality. The actors were actually brothers/sisters (except the 20-month old, which is a "Nolan"), which explains why they looked so similar.

SnakeDoc

 

[Maglor]

What the ____? Where did you get that? I made that ____ing thing!

Ha! Really? I think I got it a long time ago from the "Just Pictures" thread. Sad that one got closed.

...that's what the point of the movie was too me. To just end it saying "Oh he woke up. The end" is not what Nolan intended. It's not open and shut like that. It has meaning. That's the meaning of the movie. To appreciate what you have. To not worry all the time. To just live your life without fear, or regret.

I actually think we agree more that it seems.

I agree that the ending has profound meaning. I hadn't worded it that way, but it does basicaly mean "live without fear or regret." I said that it is about "Faith and letting go of guilt", which has similar implications.

The only area we differ, is in how that message is given weight.

You say that he has learned to not care whether he's dreaming or not and therefore is able to live without fear or regret.

I say that he is finaly confident that reality is in fact reality, now that he has let go of Mal and his guilt, thus finaly able to live without fear or regret.

Either one can work.




...except mine is right.

 

[Maglor]

For what its worth, IMDB cast for Inception lists two different sets of kids 2-years apart in age (presumably one set for the dreams, and one set for the homecoming). The fact that the kids at the end were older seems to suggest reality. The actors were actually brothers/sisters (except the 20-month old, which is a "Nolan"), which explains why they looked so similar.

SnakeDoc

The funny thing is that even if it can be proven that the kids were in fact older at the end, people who want to believe the ending was a dream will just say: 'His subconscious mind just compensated for the age difference, just like it finally let him see their faces.'

 

[plasmid303]

For what its worth, IMDB cast for Inception lists two different sets of kids 2-years apart in age (presumably one set for the dreams, and one set for the homecoming). The fact that the kids at the end were older seems to suggest reality. The actors were actually brothers/sisters (except the 20-month old, which is a "Nolan"), which explains why they looked so similar.

SnakeDoc

The older kids could've been used just for the phone call scene.