Statue Iron Patriot Quarter Scale Maquette by Sideshow Collectibles

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Let's assume that all the QC issues are systemic in nature...in other words the QC issues are rampant problem for SS. It has been suggested that we put the blame on Sideshow...after all they are company manufacturing products will all of these QC problems.

How much blame we should we assume as consumers? After all, it's not like we are not aware of these supposed systemic QC problems. It seems like we talk about the QC issues non-stop, 24/7. We constantly question "Why doesn't SS fix these problems" and "How can they continue to raise their prices"...yet we all continue to buy Sideshow products. Assuming there is truly is an epidemic QC problem at Sideshow, and we know about these problems, why do we continue to buy their products? At what point do we as consumers take some of the responsibility...some of the blame for the apparent lack of apathy on the part of Sideshow regarding these rampant QC problems? At the end of the day we are so pissed off at Sideshow for not fixing these issues while continuing to raise prices....but evidently not pissed off enough to completely take our business elsewhere.

Even if you tell yourself "I am not buying as many Sideshow products as before...the point is...you are still buying. By continuing to purchase from Sideshow...are we not "enabling" them? I hear forum members complain that buying Sideshow products is hit or miss...you never know what you are going to get. Well, by continuing to purchase Sideshow product it would seem that we are subsidizing those problematic product lines.

If you honestly believe the QC issues are significant problem, and if you believe Sideshow has no business raising prices given these rampant QC issues...how do you justify giving this company any more of your money??? And if you do continue to do business with Sideshow...then are you not part of the problem...should you take some of the blame for the apparent reluctance on Sideshow's part to address these issues? Should we really be surprised that nothing has changed if we are providing financial incentive for Sideshow to continue their current business practices?

I am not trying to attack anyone...and I am not trying to trivialize anyone who has endured QC issues. But I can't help but think the QC problems can't be as bad as we make them out to be in the forums if smart collectors continue to spend their hard earned money buying Sideshow products.

Good point... In all honesty I have been lucky with my products.. What few issues I have had SSC have taken care of with either replacements or fare partial refunds. If I got IP I would send him back...

PS - I did send a Obi Wan Mythos back that had bad wonky eye.. SSC had no replacement so back he went.

JAWS,
I tell you why XM (for now) is not greedy! Cause they are not making 1/6th figures. Also they are not producing art prints. And they don't have thousand licenses! They have chance to take but they don't choose to it! Also do you know they are participating their knowledge with other companies but SS doesn't want to! Don't you think it's odd and interesting! Cause SS and XM are using same factories but XM's owners are lecturing the factory workers about how do they have to paint! They're friendly, really:) They interact with their consumers through their facebook page which is cool:) But you are right about XM's exclusiveness. But SS never sees themselves middle class! Am I right? 500$ for Vader pf which is not 1/4 in fact and without any led options does not sound middle class to me:) I am no enemy Jaws! I am not on anybodies side cause I am a consumer and I love this hobby:) I just want to get what I paid! Every prototype of Sideshow looks awesome cause they are working with top artists like Canale, Cipriano, Newman. Sadly the problem is the end product never reaches at the standard of the proto! Also they could change the infos about their products after taking pre-orders which is not ethic! They did it with MOS & Reeve's Superman, you know:) And I don't see any example of this from not only XM but other companies! So please be objective and tell me who is greedy?

I don't view you as an enemy :) Just so you know...

Comparisons are fine, but in this thread at this moment Spidey brought up XM to deflect the heat off Sideshow for this Iron patriot disaster.

They don't retail at $900 btw, closer to 650-700 US $. ;)

I did not see Spidey comparing XM in a negative way.. He thought SSC should move up to their standard... Which I agree with.. I just think with the increase in prices.. SSC should at least keep the standard they use to have.

I was stating you should not compare XM to SSC because they are a much higher priced item... Having sais that.. I did not know retail was closer to 600-700

Those people need to have ordered any to know that. My Magneto was $740 USD shipped to USA, all my XM statues are under $800 shipped except one; only one I had to pay over $800 USD shipped was Hulk due to shipping. The next one that would cost me over $800 USD shipped is Phoenix.

When you say 750.00 shipped... That makes it sound like 750.00 total.... I must be misunderstanding right?? Shipping is like another 150.00 to 200.00 I though...

And when did it become "greedy" for a company to make multiple product lines in an effort to grow its business?

Yeah I agree with CSI.. I don't view that as greedy.. Cutting corners and increasing cost might be a little greedy.. But I have no issues with SSC growing. They just need to keep their product up to standard.

You create a company... Your goal is to make $$$$$
 
Let's take these 1 at a time:



Wrong. You want to know what the biggest difference between XM & SSC is? Xm hasn't completely abandoned it's direction, principles, and everything they stand for that put them on the map to begin with.

Here's an article from 2007 to refresh your memory: T.O. company makes high-end collectibles - VC-Star

Here's a few important quotes from that article describing Sideshow as a company:

"Ninety-five percent of what we do are low-run, limited editions"
"If it is determined a particular figure should be an edition size of 1,000, only 1,000 numbers will be produced."
"We're comfortable with that process, because we're looking to increase the value of these products through their scarcity"
"Sideshow is a company that is very disciplined about not overproducing the products that it makes, nor expanding the edition size to a point of saturation"
"It's the first company that I found that actually treats their customers like they mean something"


Knock, knock. Who's there? Irony.




You haven't suggested anything that hasn't been discussed ad nauseum for half a decade with the exception of one thing: your idea to actually charge Sideshow customers $50 more to "ensure" a better product. F-ing brillaint. :lol

Like I stated, you add nothing constructive. Your horrid idea to charge people more for this appalling QC is destructive. You've been told this on not one but two forums in the collecting community, yet it still isn't sinking in.



Who's on the sidelines? Anyone posting here has the balls to voice their opinion center stage bub. But hey, at least you've accomplished your passive aggressive quota this go around. Good work.

Here's where you post "this is why I don't come around here much anymore" & "this is why designers don't post here anymore" schtick, and we'll see you in 5 minutes.

I get where Spidey's logic is coming from... I don't agree 100%... But if SSC followed XM practice then their product would not be 50.00 more... It would be 250.00 more right?? I mean it only stands to reason that if XM cost that much then SSC would have to also... Perhaps the Higher ES would offset the cost.. If it cost 50.00 more a statue to hire more QC guys then so be it... But I would think the price hike in their items would already cover that.

I just want Gladiator Hulk/King Hulk / Superman type quality to be the norm :)
 
When you say 750.00 shipped... That makes it sound like 750.00 total.... I must be misunderstanding right?? Shipping is like another 150.00 to 200.00 I though...

I really mean total $740 USD shipped, that's including shipping. That's how much it cost me. $700 SGD for the statue, $300 SGD for shipping = $1000 SGD which was $740 USD when I paid, but $751 USD today.

I used to think final QC/touch up in the US might help. But in this case, they used a really bad factory, or maybe just pay less $ to get fresh workers to work on this project, it's not minor touch up, they have a lot of stuff to fix for each statue.
 
I really mean total $740 USD shipped, that's including shipping. That's how much it cost me. $700 SGD for the statue, $300 SGD for shipping = $1000 SGD which was $740 USD when I paid, but $751 USD today.

I used to think final QC/touch up in the US might help. But in this case, they used a really bad factory, or maybe just pay less $ to get fresh workers to work on this project, it's not minor touch up, they have a lot of stuff to fix for each statue.


Wow! That's not bad at all for that piece. I did not realize you could get that at such a price..
 
So it's clear you don't know what 'deflect' or 'snipe' means. Moving along.

Where did I state "I want Sideshow to get smaller"? :cuckoo: If you're going to resort to making things up then don't bother replying anymore.

I posted that article and those quotes to illustrate the biggest differences between XM & SSC, and it isn't due to a little touch up paint before an end product gets sent out like you've alluded to.

Here's a quote from an SF member that hits the nail on the head with respect to Sideshow QC which is what this Iron Patriot thread should be about:

"As you know, collectors are concerned. Any time your customers cancel p.o's with you (in droves) and completely inconvenience themselves by paying almost 3 times the price from another company, in a far away land, and in some cases with so much risk involved with complete strangers, that's an emergency situation for you that warrants a wake up call. Come on guys!..And all this silence isn't helping either. Its like your conveying denial. Im not saying respond to every complaint...it would not be wise to put out every small fire..But you hear collectors say the same thing over and over.. QC, QC, QC...you guys could at least lay the hammer down and say enough is enough...Come up with a plan of action and publically announce an initiative on how you intend to do better on QC. After all, judging by the DC line, you are capable. And some would say its lazy and cheap to not exercise the same consistency on all lines. For you to remain silent on this will not make it go away. You cant just brave the storm because you have most of the cards. This is a small niche industry and its just a matter of time before your bottom line is effected. I want to see you guys be great across the board. Consider it is not my intention to bash. I was blunt, but constructive."

I agree with everything that is in that quote. I am just making suggestions about different ways to approach it, and if you didn't have an axe to grind with me you might be able to see that.

I get where Spidey's logic is coming from... I don't agree 100%... But if SSC followed XM practice then their product would not be 50.00 more... It would be 250.00 more right?? I mean it only stands to reason that if XM cost that much then SSC would have to also... Perhaps the Higher ES would offset the cost.. If it cost 50.00 more a statue to hire more QC guys then so be it... But I would think the price hike in their items would already cover that.

I just want Gladiator Hulk/King Hulk / Superman type quality to be the norm :)

If you charged $50 a statue that would pay for a painter to spend at least 2 hrs with a piece at a $25 and hr rate. It would be a fair wage for that type of skills. It would also give the painter enough time to correct some of the minor issues that go on with a piece that drive us NUTS. Hell in theory googly eyes should never happen because the painters could correct them. Now yeah there would be a delay in the shipping of your piece, but you would know your statue had another set of eyes on it. Also, again the process could be voluntary so you would get to choose. The factories wouldn't know which pieces would be inspected, so they might pick up their game even more because they would KNOW that someone in the use would be inspecting them more thoroughly.... which brings me to
I really mean total $740 USD shipped, that's including shipping. That's how much it cost me. $700 SGD for the statue, $300 SGD for shipping = $1000 SGD which was $740 USD when I paid, but $751 USD today.

I used to think final QC/touch up in the US might help. But in this case, they used a really bad factory, or maybe just pay less $ to get fresh workers to work on this project, it's not minor touch up, they have a lot of stuff to fix for each statue.

With many of the pieces being done in batches now you would have more of an opportunity to address QC IF you were paying artists in the US to fix issues, because A) you would know about the problems sooner, B) If there was a **** show happening like the Iron Patriot or worse yet Spiderwoman the workers in the paint shops in California would be freaking out and calling the factories in China and telling them to pick up their socks on the next batches because there was WAY to much work needing to be done on the back end of the production process. Any way you cut it, with the right tools and the right paints I bet you a good artist could correct what is wrong with most of the WW PFs and the Iron Patriots within a 2 hr time frame.... baring breakages of course, and the increased chatter with the factories over in China, which is one of XMs strengths, couldn't hurt either.

Again, it is just an idea.
 
No way at all you're fixing these in 2hrs. The problem is that they haven't been prepped or masked properly, that is the kind of stuff that takes a lot of time. Then once you've sprayed a few coats of paint you have to leave that area of paint for 48hrs maybe before masking that up and spraying the next area. It takes time but is unavoidable or you end up with something like these IPs.

As for the extra $50 you keep mentioning, in the time I've been collecting the average PF has gone up by maybe $200+ already, an acceptable paint job is taken as a given within the asking price surely.
 
One of the reasons I find (most) of XM prices reasonable is that they put a serious effort into creative direction, too. That, to me, is one of the main reasons I can see myself spending that kind of money.
There is no way in hell I'd pay 500-600-700$ for Sideshow's typical PF, which now basically consists in the character standing there on some some sort of thematic base, even with perfect QC. I can see it for bigger and bulkier pieces, but on the generic 1:4 scale human guy in a costume, no thanks.
 
Honestly, I was just spit baling an idea guys. Again I simply pont out that guys are willing to pay $800 for your averag PF from XM, and the major difference is the last minute touch ups by a master painter. That is $350 more than the new Joker PF. The fact is that would also put someone on US soil directly responsible for the final quality assurance. Their ass would be on the line so to speak. nd it might get them to lean on the factories more so they weren't correcting a million mistakes. Which could help overall QC... Again just looking for a possible constructive idea, rather than the usual bitching and moaning.

You're never gonna stop the usual whining, bitching and moaning. :lol

I wish that Sideshow had a factory here in the States so as to have better QA controll.

Lies! Ban him. :lecture

The Dark Side flows through Jay! :rock

Either it's the Dark Side or he drank too much beer! :lol

:lol :lol i especially love Mark aka Darth Snoopy and Adopted Scot aka Shell :love

patrickstar2.jpg
 
I agree with everything that is in that quote. I am just making suggestions about different ways to approach it, and if you didn't have an axe to grind with me you might be able to see that.



If you charged $50 a statue that would pay for a painter to spend at least 2 hrs with a piece at a $25 and hr rate. It would be a fair wage for that type of skills. It would also give the painter enough time to correct some of the minor issues that go on with a piece that drive us NUTS. Hell in theory googly eyes should never happen because the painters could correct them. Now yeah there would be a delay in the shipping of your piece, but you would know your statue had another set of eyes on it. Also, again the process could be voluntary so you would get to choose. The factories wouldn't know which pieces would be inspected, so they might pick up their game even more because they would KNOW that someone in the use would be inspecting them more thoroughly.... which brings me to


With many of the pieces being done in batches now you would have more of an opportunity to address QC IF you were paying artists in the US to fix issues, because A) you would know about the problems sooner, B) If there was a **** show happening like the Iron Patriot or worse yet Spiderwoman the workers in the paint shops in California would be freaking out and calling the factories in China and telling them to pick up their socks on the next batches because there was WAY to much work needing to be done on the back end of the production process. Any way you cut it, with the right tools and the right paints I bet you a good artist could correct what is wrong with most of the WW PFs and the Iron Patriots within a 2 hr time frame.... baring breakages of course, and the increased chatter with the factories over in China, which is one of XMs strengths, couldn't hurt either.

Again, it is just an idea.

I get your point, but in order to do that, it's more storage space, office space, cost to support those space, benefit to these extra employee, it's not $25 an hour, I also get you can have cheaper inspector to just look for things for the artist to do. But you know what, the company have to care first.

In this IP case, when the artists in the US call China to do a better paint job, the factory over there will just say, well you are paying for that grade of work.... You know if SS paid top $, they certainly wouldn't accept these products. Bottom line, if they want to ship better product, they can do it, they have shown that many times, but for whatever reasons, they aren't doing it quite as often.

I am done with talking about how SS can fix the problem, they don't need us talking about it, it's not rocket science, I am sure they know what they have to do.
 
Hi guys, couple of questions for you. I'm getting my Iron Patriot tomorrow and I plan on returning it if its as bad as I think it will be. I also plan on canceling my Iron Man Marquette as well, since I planned on having them together. I had Flexpays for both, but do you still think I will get charged per flex payment? Especially since Iron Patriot is below standard. For those who cancelled, did they charge you?
 
Hi guys, couple of questions for you. I'm getting my Iron Patriot tomorrow and I plan on returning it if its as bad as I think it will be. I also plan on canceling my Iron Man Marquette as well, since I planned on having them together. I had Flexpays for both, but do you still think I will get charged per flex payment? Especially since Iron Patriot is below standard. For those who cancelled, did they charge you?

Just talk to the CS rep that's handling your return. Make sure you only cancel if no fee. I asked Daniel to cancel my Mk42 and Mk2 for me and move my NDR to Lobo. He haven't gotten back to me yet, but I am not going to sweat it if he doesn't, I don't think I will have problem finding issues when those 2 ship to return at no cost to me.
 
Mine is coming today. Just hoping it looks solid but it's going to get a very close inspection. If there are issues, it'll be returned without question. Paint blotches, smudges, chips should be unacceptable as with anything people buy. You don't buy a leather couch to have tears upon delivery
 
I did not see Spidey comparing XM in a negative way.. He thought SSC should move up to their standard... Which I agree with.. I just think with the increase in prices.. SSC should at least keep the standard they use to have. I was stating you should not compare XM to SSC because they are a much higher priced item... Having sais that.. I did not know retail was closer to 600-700

I think we all agree SSC should improve it's standard. :goodpost:

I get where Spidey's logic is coming from... I don't agree 100%... But if SSC followed XM practice then their product would not be 50.00 more... It would be 250.00 more right?? I mean it only stands to reason that if XM cost that much then SSC would have to also... Perhaps the Higher ES would offset the cost.. If it cost 50.00 more a statue to hire more QC guys then so be it... But I would think the price hike in their items would already cover that.

I just want Gladiator Hulk/King Hulk / Superman type quality to be the norm :)

All about those Hulks! :lol Admittedly, I'm just tired of reading XM comparisons every time SSC craps the bed on the QC of an end product. We know XM costs more to import, and to many of us it's worth it. End of story.

What that has to do with Sideshow failing to deliver is beyond me. :dunno

I agree with everything that is in that quote. I am just making suggestions about different ways to approach it, and if you didn't have an axe to grind with me you might be able to see that.

I don't have an axe to grind, or a an agenda. From my point of view, you post a laundry list of excuses every time SSC end products tank, and you happen to work XM into the discussion every single time. I don't see how it's productive in any way, and I'm not one to sit idly by and read it over and over and over.

You take it personally, that's on you, but you have no room to complain about 'sniping' b/c I've read your posts at SF bashing this forums members and your posts here in the CoC thread sniping as well. Practice what you preach.


If you charged $50 a statue that would pay for a painter to spend at least 2 hrs with a piece at a $25 and hr rate. It would be a fair wage for that type of skills. It would also give the painter enough time to correct some of the minor issues that go on with a piece that drive us NUTS. Hell in theory googly eyes should never happen because the painters could correct them. Now yeah there would be a delay in the shipping of your piece, but you would know your statue had another set of eyes on it. Also, again the process could be voluntary so you would get to choose. The factories wouldn't know which pieces would be inspected, so they might pick up their game even more because they would KNOW that someone in the use would be inspecting them more thoroughly.... which brings me to


With many of the pieces being done in batches now you would have more of an opportunity to address QC IF you were paying artists in the US to fix issues, because A) you would know about the problems sooner, B) If there was a **** show happening like the Iron Patriot or worse yet Spiderwoman the workers in the paint shops in California would be freaking out and calling the factories in China and telling them to pick up their socks on the next batches because there was WAY to much work needing to be done on the back end of the production process. Any way you cut it, with the right tools and the right paints I bet you a good artist could correct what is wrong with most of the WW PFs and the Iron Patriots within a 2 hr time frame.... baring breakages of course, and the increased chatter with the factories over in China, which is one of XMs strengths, couldn't hurt either.

Again, it is just an idea.

No way at all you're fixing these in 2hrs. The problem is that they haven't been prepped or masked properly, that is the kind of stuff that takes a lot of time. Then once you've sprayed a few coats of paint you have to leave that area of paint for 48hrs maybe before masking that up and spraying the next area. It takes time but is unavoidable or you end up with something like these IPs.

As for the extra $50 you keep mentioning, in the time I've been collecting the average PF has gone up by maybe $200+ already, an acceptable paint job is taken as a given within the asking price surely.

I get your point, but in order to do that, it's more storage space, office space, cost to support those space, benefit to these extra employee, it's not $25 an hour, I also get you can have cheaper inspector to just look for things for the artist to do. But you know what, the company have to care first.

In this IP case, when the artists in the US call China to do a better paint job, the factory over there will just say, well you are paying for that grade of work.... You know if SS paid top $, they certainly wouldn't accept these products. Bottom line, if they want to ship better product, they can do it, they have shown that many times, but for whatever reasons, they aren't doing it quite as often.

I am done with talking about how SS can fix the problem, they don't need us talking about it, it's not rocket science, I am sure they know what they have to do.

Agree Python & keewan, they covered everything. :goodpost: :exactly:
 
Some comparison shots I found... Personally I like the SSC one more from a distance... Of course up close the paint apps start to hurt it... But I prefer the size, detail, and pose on the SS one...

11178238_10203518122262943_168229721110564792_n.jpg


11182273_10203518122822957_1609250011418988853_n.jpg


20488_10203518124502999_2516062328454924896_n.jpg


11110890_10203518124422997_6805703816284816643_o.jpg


11156220_10203518124543000_7719505517142561556_n.jpg


10956466_10203518124382996_6787831732574387668_n.jpg
 
No doubt in my mind that the IP PF pose and presense is still nice. I POed it for a reason. I just cancelled cuz I knew I wouldn't be happy with the result. Aside from the paint job, I think this piece is really nice. If they had nailed that, it would be a homerun. A lot of people are unhappy about the missing wrist cannon but that doesn't bother me as much. I really like the pose, base, sculpt. But, too good to be true..SSC botched the paint. Until they release an IM piece that doesn't have paint issues, I'm not buying from their IM line.
 
I think we all agree SSC should improve it's standard. :goodpost:



All about those Hulks! :lol Admittedly, I'm just tired of reading XM comparisons every time SSC craps the bed on the QC of an end product. We know XM costs more to import, and to many of us it's worth it. End of story.

What that has to do with Sideshow failing to deliver is beyond me. :dunno


I don't have an axe to grind, or a an agenda. From my point of view, you post a laundry list of excuses every time SSC end products tank, and you happen to work XM into the discussion every single time. I don't see how it's productive in any way, and I'm not one to sit idly by and read it over and over and over.

You take it personally, that's on you, but you have no room to complain about 'sniping' b/c I've read your posts at SF bashing this forums members and your posts here in the CoC thread sniping as well. Practice what you preach.


Agree Python & keewan, they covered everything. :goodpost: :exactly:

The paint on this piece is for the most part awful, and they should have never left the factory like this. I totally agree. I want to see improvements as much as anyone. SSC can and needs to do better. The reason I brought up XM was simple... They do better where SSC needs to improve the most. Paint and QC. It wasn't deflecting it is a simple fact. I agree with most everything you are saying, and my idea is just that ... An idea. Nothing more.
 
The paint on this piece is for the most part awful, and they should have never left the factory like this. I totally agree. I want to see improvements as much as anyone. SSC can and needs to do better. The reason I brought up XM was simple... They do better where SSC needs to improve the most. Paint and QC. It wasn't deflecting it is a simple fact. I agree with most everything you are saying, and my idea is just that ... An idea. Nothing more.

Well let's agree to agree for once and leave it at that. :duff
 
I just opened my IP a few minutes ago. Mine isn't as bad as others posted but the paint job is blotched in many areas. From a distance, it does look very good.
 
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