Is there such a thing as free will?

[devilof76]

The Reverend is slow.

galmando, anything that exists has a specific identity (existence is identity). A thing is what it is, and is not what it is not. That includes consciousness. Causality is the principle that things act according to their identity. A thing cannot behave in a manner inconsistent with its nature.

The idea that free will must somehow be free of identity to exist is a contradiction on its face.

 

[KitFisto]

There is no spoon.

 

[devilof76]

Yes, there is.

 

[crows]

Humans react to stimuli as well

A human and a dog can choose to drink available water if thirsty

As humans, we have other stimuli that we react to that animals may never experience

One of the major characteristics that an animal, other than a human, has yet to convey is the ability to ask questions or create an idea

the point is not that a human can drink water if he is thirsty and finds water.

the real point is that the human can choose between Coke and Pepsi, Or sprite, or beer, or cranberry juice.

You have the ability to choose what to drink,that's what free will is about.
It is the freedom to choose beer even thought you can get sick from drinking too much of it and die. The fact that you can die from eating or drinking something should show you how free will is real.

IF you were full you would stop, if you were not thirsty anymore you would be supposed to stop.
the fact that people shove their faces with 35 burgers at once and die of chocking or heart attack is nothing but More proof of free will.

the will do eat until you die.

 

[Pork Chop Express]

Nothings free, everything costs money. Especially 35 burgers.

 

[galmando]

I'm not sure you understand my question Crows

I know what free will is, what I'm pondering is this; is free will an illusion, are the choices we make completely unavoidable if we are composed entirely of material/matter/mass/energy that is subject to the ongoing chain of reactions that our universe works upon

 

[Centurion]

this thread is begging to be oscorp-ed and blackthorna-aah.

take the blue pill and order more HT, yo.

This is the first thing that came to mind when I read the title of this thread. This has 'The Matrix' all over it.

 

[devilof76]

I'm not sure you understand my question Crows

I know what free will is, what I'm pondering is this; is free will an illusion, are the choices we make completely unavoidable if we are composed entirely of material/matter/mass/energy that is subject to the ongoing chain of reactions that our universe works upon

Had you considered the possibility that consciousness is a different type of existent altogether? Not something beyond nature, but supernatural nonetheless? (Actually, supermaterial would be a better term.)

 

[galmando]

Had you considered the possibility that consciousness is a different type of existent altogether? Not something beyond nature, but supernatural nonetheless? (Actually, supermaterial would be a better term.)

That's where I was going with opinion number 2 on the previous page

It blew my head a little

 

[devilof76]

Think of all the problems quantum physics is having relating subatomic phenomena to matter in general.

It would make a lot more sense to say that the ultimate nature of the universe's constituent parts are capable of taking the form of matter, or energy, or consciousness than it would be to say that consciousness (and free will especially) is from somewhere beyond natural law. Everyone is hung up on the notion that matter and energy behave according to the mechanistic determinism Newton nailed down, even though action at the quantum level does not behave according to the same laws as macroscopic bodies. Is it really such a stretch to take introspection at face value and call a spade a spade? Consciousness is ruled by causality, but causality is not necessarily deterministic.

 

[Centurion]

That's where I was going with opinion number 2 on the previous page

It blew my head a little

You had your head blown on the previous page?


***quickly clicks to go back a page***

 

[fosing]

existence precedes essence

 

[devilof76]

 

[fosing]

existentialist brain farts and absurdism poetry...

 

[Centurion]

 

[Blackthornone]

he fell for your trap it seem..his definition of free will might as well be god.

If souls don't exist and can't pick what bodies they are born into, then there is no free will. Free will would just be an illusion in that case. All of reality would just be a complex unfolding of an original cause set in motion, with only one possible outcome at any given moment.
In that scenario, God does not exist, for all practical purposes.

If God did exist, and God placed people into bodies without their consent, then the idea that God gave us free will would be a lie.

 

[crows]

what if God created Earth and then just forget about it. Or what if he watches Earth but never intervenes ?

 

[devilof76]

If souls don't exist and can't pick what bodies they are born into, then there is no free will. Free will would just be an illusion in that case. All of reality would just be a complex unfolding of an original cause set in motion, with only one possible outcome at any given moment.
In that scenario, God does not exist, for all practical purposes.

If God did exist, and God placed people into bodies without their consent, then the idea that God gave us free will would be a lie.

For someone who prattles ad nauseum about the value of logic, you could use a fat dose.

 

[galmando]

If souls don't exist and can't pick what bodies they are born into, then there is no free will. Free will would just be an illusion in that case. All of reality would just be a complex unfolding of an original cause set in motion, with only one possible outcome at any given moment.
In that scenario, God does not exist, for all practical purposes.

If God did exist, and God placed people into bodies without their consent, then the idea that God gave us free will would be a lie.

I'm sorry to presume, but from what I've read, it seems as though you assign any phenomenon unexplained by current scientific methods to a spiritual source

That's surely an assumption?

 

[devilof76]

A baseless, rationalistic assumption, at that.