Is there such a thing as free will?

[devilof76]

I wonder if there were any whoa's in River's Edge or My Own Private Idaho.

 

[Blackthornone]

How can you have an identity that precedes your birth?

More to the point, how can you have identity prior to your existence (since there is no evidence at all to suppose one exists before they are born)?

The only way I can see that you have an identity that precedes your birth is to have a soul.
Without a soul, there is no identity before birth, and without an identity before birth, there is no possibility of making a choice as to what body you will be born into, and without that there is no free will.

 

[WolfPredatorAVPR]

I think free will is an illusion created by our brains to make us think we are actually in charge but not. Sam Harris says it best in his thought's on free will...not that I agree with every single thing he say's but for the most part I do agree with him.

It's almost a scary thought that our decisions are being made for us with a part of the unconscious brain but think about it. The way we operate, our brain uses our past experiences to generally make many of our daily decision's in life. I think our own consciousness is just one of the many thing our brain does but in the end is your consciousness really what's in complete control?

 

[devilof76]

I think Sam Harris is full of it.

The only way I can see that you have an identity that precedes your birth is to have a soul.
Without a soul, there is no identity before birth, and without an identity before birth, there is no possibility of making a choice as to what body you will be born into, and without that there is no free will.

And that's a straw man. What makes you think people decide what bodies they are born into? Completely arbitrary idea, just like your idea of a soul. You're imagining conditions for free will and ignoring the self-evident. You make decisions every day that are necessitated by nothing short of your own initiative.

Where do you get these ideas without inducing from observable evidence? You are aware that deduction is the lesser half of logic, right? You know that propositions are generalizations based on perceptual experience, right? You know that deduction is only the application of knowledge, and not the source of knowledge, right?

Or is that the role your concept of soul plays---a vessel for housing a collection of pre-set, unchallengable ideas that require no validadtion?

 

[BadMoon]

Free will is pissing in the sink because the ****ter is full. Sure one could wait for the bathroom to become unoccupied. However, **** that. I do what I want. Or one could be even more bold and just piss themselves.

 

[devilof76]

Or, even better, you can refocus your mind in the event that an established routine is interrupted, call upon past knowledge that may have had no prior application to the problem scenario, and then judge for the first time whether or not the new possibilities (opened up on account of your self-initiated cognitive innovation) are objectively adequate solutions.

This is what an animal with free will can do, as opposed to an animal with a deterministic, instinctual will (such as a dog) that will run around in circles until it pisses on the floor.

 

[BadMoon]

Or, even better, you can refocus your mind in the event that an established routine is interrupted, call upon past knowledge that may have had no prior application to the problem scenario, and then judge for the first time whether or not the new possibilities (opened up on account of your self-initiated cognitive innovation) are objectively adequate solutions.

This is what an animal with free will can do, as opposed to an animal with a deterministic, instinctual will (such as a dog) that will run around in circles until it pisses on the floor.

Exactly, I could certainly open up my mind to pissing into a bag of potato chips the next time I have to pee. The question is now, do I want to dump the chips out before or after I juice them up?

 

[Blackthornone]

I think Sam Harris is full of it.



And that's a straw man. What makes you think people decide what bodies they are born into? Completely arbitrary idea, just like your idea of a soul. You're imagining conditions for free will and ignoring the self-evident. You make decisions every day that are necessitated by nothing short of your own initiative.

Where do you get these ideas without inducing from observable evidence? You are aware that deduction is the lesser half of logic, right? You know that propositions are generalizations based on perceptual experience, right? You know that deduction is only the application of knowledge, and not the source of knowledge, right?

Or is that the role your concept of soul plays---a vessel for housing a collection of pre-set, unchallengable ideas that require no validadtion?

The point is that without the soul being able to choose the body it is born into, there is no free will. I am not trying to prove that there is a soul.
Everything could be a predetermined destiny merely with the illusion of free will, with no real proof to the contrary.

 

[devilof76]

There is no soul prior to birth. Humans have free will.

I think we're done here.

 

[BadMoon]

There is no soul prior to birth. Humans have free will.

I think we're done here.

So you're telling me I CAN pee in the potato chips.....

 

[devilof76]

You can do whatever your little heart desires, sugar.

 

[Pork Chop Express]

Of course free will only exists (or not) in a world full of people.

What happens when humans create sentient robotic intelligence, which in all likelihood will eventually happen.

 

[Centurion]

 

[devilof76]

Of course free will only exists (or not) in a world full of people.

What happens when humans create sentient robotic intelligence, which in all likelihood will eventually happen.

How do you propose to give them consciousness if it's not a material phenomenon?

 

[Pork Chop Express]

Never said it was not going to be material.
This is something that many people have been working towrds for quite some time and others who continually question it's future implications. The ultimate goal, to make something that walks, talk, thinks and feels just like humans. So for arguments sake, let's say it happens and they are just that. Do these academic, philosophical, religious explanations still apply?

There will surely be many laws & restrictions to keep such things controlled, like people in the past and even present...

 

[devilof76]

I'm just saying that it will be a cold day in hell the day a machine gains consciousness. But, for the sake of imagination, I think any volitionally conscious entity deserves the same rights and freedoms as a biological one would. We only need those things because our survival requires the freedom to think and choose for ourselves, and so would an AI.

 

[Pork Chop Express]

With technology moving at breakneck speed, that day may come.
I just hope I'm dead when Skynet takes over.

The topic of free will, in my opinion, should encompass all life on the planet. Human, plant and animal alike. To do any less would be to marginalize anything deemed not "important" enough and irresponsible. Until humanity gets over itself, same **** different day.

 

[devilof76]

Are there other animals with free will? Other animals with the roots of moral agency?

 

[Pork Chop Express]

I do believe that life on earth is a symbiotic relationship of give and take. And to not consider what has been here long before us, despite all outward appearances and even understanding, in a deeply philosophical debate is on strictly human terms is not wholly correct.

 

[devilof76]

What are you talking about? Does this have something to do with the sin of eating bacon?