James Cameron's AVATAR discussion thread

[thenammagazine]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

OK, I may be way off the mark here, but I don't think you're gonna like Avatar too much... I have a feelng that when (and this isn't too much of a spoiler) but I think when Colonel Miles gives his little speech/corporate pep talk... I just have a feeling you might be on a side that differs to most... though I hope I'm doing you a diservice and I'm wrong.
I've known some grunts in my time... and I'm amazed at how often they are purely just grunts! Sad but true!
PS, I'm not saying this to antagonise, it is based on true life experience.

Okay, for the record... I have not gone to a movie in as long as I can remember, expecting to be blown away by a story, dialogue (except for Tarantino movies), etc. I go giving it face value. This is why I wasn't disappointed in T:S, or Star Trek, or the likes of Star Wars' PT or even T3 for that matter (though I do agree that it was the weakest of the films). The only time I get annoyed is when I see things blatantly off the mark for no other reason than just that. Deadpool was a perfect example of this. So was the over-the-top violence/gore in Zombie's Halloween 2. I can forgive stereotypical moments like Jarhead peptalks, etc., if the overall ride is fun. I also didn't think Ledger's take on Joker was the monumental earth-shattering cinema everyone else thinks it was. Quite simply, it was another take on Joker.

 

[Voorhees27]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

If you're referring to me, I don't hate this movie (haven't seen it yet), I hated There Will Be Blood.

Yeah the film was nothing special but D.D. Lewis' performance was off the hook.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

Yeah the film was nothing special but D.D. Lewis' performance was off the hook.

Which unfortunately, was all but lost in a film as action packed and inspiring as two old people trying to ****.

 

[snoop101]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

AVATAR rocked.

Yeah it did!!!

 

[BadMoon]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

That movie sucked ass and was a HUGE effort just to sit through it and stay focused . Best part about it was the end credits because I knew I had to make up for the 158 minutes of my life I'd just wasted.

Too bad for you I guess. That's your opinion.

 

[Dusty]

it's apparent that you have not seen the movie yet because the premise of the movie has little to do with the unobtanium but more about the land and way of life. and I think it's silly to say that TF has remotely equal substance that avatar does.

I'm a spoiler gal so I know whole STORY - I just 'simplified' it since that's what you were doing with the Transformers cube post I've even read the original scriptment (screenplay + treatment) for Avatar (from back when it was called Project 880). And from what I've heard of what was changed from that, I can TOTALLY understand why Cameron decided to 'dumb' it down. It's a visual feast, why make it more complicated with a deeper story? (it is in no way a deep story, by the way; it's a very surface story, which employs deux ex machina brilliantly... and I'm sure the visuals help it along immensely)

Please note, the comments above (and ANY of my comments) are NOT pot-shots at the movie. It was smart choice; a choice that is making it a blockbuster, which answers my first question: Will people really flock to see this? - check!... Now, will it affect ME in way that makes me want to see it again? (as MY opinion of it is really the only one I care about in the long run )

Anyone who knows me knows that when I fall for a film, I fall hard So, we shall see - I know you are all waiting with baited breath for my judgement

P.S. And maybe I'm weird, but I do get a little teared up at the end of that first Transformers I never had ANY of the toys as a kid and never watched any shows or whatever, so I have no real emotional ties to it. I just really liked Optimus and what he stands for Now, I give you that Revenge of the Fallen was definitely lacking - but I'm not sure that's the fault of the STORY. More the fault of the editing/directing - seemed a lot lazier compared to the first - lots of things should have been cut out. But I did love that scene when Optimus falls in battle.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Anyone who thinks this movie sucks or didn't like it. Well, you're in the minority. I think many of these people over analyze things, and are unable to check their brain at the door and just enjoy the damn movie for exactly what it is. If sci-fi and special effects are not your thing, why did you even go see it?
All the people who thought it sucked, should have know by now what they were going to see.
But like I said, they are in the very small minority, and thanks for help making the movie even more money than it should have
I'm off to my 3rd viewing, or should I say "experience".

Just had to step in here - this is exactly what the fans of Transformers (like me) say and get bashed for it. "Enjoy it for what it is, don't over think it."

Although, ultimately my point is... anyone who bashes Transformers and LOVES Avatar is a little hypocritical

IMO, films like Star Wars or LOTR far outdo Transformers on an emotional and film-making/story-telling level.... but I really love Transformers FOR WHAT IT IS. I expect I will think the same about Avatar... it is NOT going to be a Star Wars or LOTR, but it's a fun time at the theater. I'm in line with LOTRfan - if they had sold it as simply another 'summer blockbuster' it would be a different story. Cameron's overbearing "I'm better than everyone" attitude just gets under my skin. Just because your movie makes the most money doesn't mean it is the best. (Titanic proves that ... is it on ANYONE'S top 10 film list? Do people re-watch it a million times at home? Nope - it's a "theater or nothing" film - in that respect I'd even argue that Transformers is a longer-lasting film and franchise, although I guess we don't really know yet - we shall see how the Avatar collectibles perform... and if anyone starts getting Avatar tattoos )

I don't think that Avatar is a "check your brain at the door" film as Transformers or GI Joe are. Just the fact that there is a "message," no matter how simplistic it is, elevates it above a popcorn movie. But the message isn't really that simplistic when you think about it, and the thought that went behind the world of the film is boggling. You can actually look at the first few seconds of Avatar and wonder - how did they get to Alpha Centauri? Well, the ship design says something about the technology used - it's not in the dialogue or the plot, but it's in the backstory and it's obvious that a lot of consideration went into that. The same is true about just about every aspect of the film.

But does anyone wonder why giant robots change into cars and what kind of evolution these mechanical beings went through to arrive at this sort of mutation? It's just not worth thinking about.

Considering that there are 10 nominations for best picture for Oscar this year, I'm positive Avatar will be in there. But Transformers or GI Joe? I don't think so.

Titanic is in the top 50 films for me - I watch it at last once a year.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

Too bad for you I guess. That's your opinion.

Give me some credit. At least I watched the whole thing. I still don't see why he just didn't brain the prick from the beginning anyway. I sat through that whole thing and at the end was like, WTF?! What took you so long?! But hey, I'm not knocking you for enjoying it. The French like to eat snails. To each their own.

 

[jedibear]

Just checked back into this thread...

I'm stunned that there is even a back-n-forth going on about comparing Trans2 with Avatar...

Apples and Oranges.

I enjoyed the first "Transformers" for what it was...it didn't feel like a typical Bay movie...it was a spectacle with a good balance of humor, action and a sense of fun. Trans2 felt VERY much like a Bay movie...loud, obnoxious and even offensive in spots. It was amazing to me that it made as much coin as it did....I hadn't been so frustrated at going to a movie in a long time...

Now Avatar...

I hear what Dusty's saying about Cameron's off-screen arrogance...it puts me off too. It was interesting watching a recent Charlie Rose interview with him, where he actually seemed a little more grounded and humble...proud of course of the new film, but not with that infamous overbearing attitude.

I went into Avatar not expecting much...and my initial impressions were that it was a well-crafted film with some issues, but all of Cameron's films have had their "issues" so...it's okay.

The movie did one thing a modern movie hasn't done for me for a while...had me thinking about it and remembering or mulling over certain aspects about it...and that's got me wanting to see it again.

While the trailers and initial impressions are that Avatar is like a kinder, gentler "Aliens", I think it's closer to the mark for me that it's more like "The Abyss"...my favorite Cameron movie. Yeah the soap dish ship and the funky aliens were kinda lame, but the rig crew and how they went through the experience were the true focus of that movie for me.

That's the aspect of "Avatar" that is drawing me back...the people in the story. Not just the exotic Na'vi, but the humans that are interacting with that world. I want to experience that part of the movie again...

Dusty, if you're still around...please come back and share your impressions on "Avatar" after you see it...

 

[blakus939]

Ok ok ok ok, back up a second here. In my opinion, Christian Bale was the worst thing in both the Dark Knight AND Salvation, why? Because of his voice, it was absolutely TERRIBLE. I HATE that voice he does it is so damn annoying and terrible and just ruins himself on screen. He is slowly turning into Vin Diesel. I can honestly say I don't give a ???? about Christian Bale anymore. I have the exact opposite opinion because every time Bale came on the screen in Salvation I had to close my eyes and plug my hears.

Sam Worthington on the other hand, rules!

Hey these are just my opinions, so please don't be like that jerk face in the PS3 thread.

Oh don't get me wrong, i definately think Bale is an overrated actor, and the salvation and batman voice is annoying too, but i mean, he CAN pull off a decent american accent, and notably, many different dialects (public enemies, american phsyco etc) whereas i feel sam amateurly struggles to get even close to a convincing accent. Maybe if he acted completely in australian, may be better? I dunno

 

[nash]

I'm a spoiler gal so I know whole STORY - I just 'simplified' it since that's what you were doing with the Transformers cube post I've even read the original scriptment (screenplay + treatment) for Avatar (from back when it was called Project 880). And from what I've heard of what was changed from that, I can TOTALLY understand why Cameron decided to 'dumb' it down. It's a visual feast, why make it more complicated with a deeper story? (it is in no way a deep story, by the way; it's a very surface story, which employs deux ex machina brilliantly... and I'm sure the visuals help it along immensely)

Please note, the comments above (and ANY of my comments) are NOT pot-shots at the movie. It was smart choice; a choice that is making it a blockbuster, which answers my first question: Will people really flock to see this? - check!... Now, will it affect ME in way that makes me want to see it again? (as MY opinion of it is really the only one I care about in the long run )

Anyone who knows me knows that when I fall for a film, I fall hard So, we shall see - I know you are all waiting with baited breath for my judgement

P.S. And maybe I'm weird, but I do get a little teared up at the end of that first Transformers I never had ANY of the toys as a kid and never watched any shows or whatever, so I have no real emotional ties to it. I just really liked Optimus and what he stands for Now, I give you that Revenge of the Fallen was definitely lacking - but I'm not sure that's the fault of the STORY. More the fault of the editing/directing - seemed a lot lazier compared to the first - lots of things should have been cut out. But I did love that scene when Optimus falls in battle.

Well in that case, your simplification of it wasn't exactly correct. If avatar were just about humans wanting the unobtanium and the na'vi protecting it (ie. keeping the cube away from the baddies in TF), i could see your point about the hypocrisy of liking avatar but not TF. however, you know that this is not the case since you know the whole story of avatar.

I agree with dave that avatar is nowhere in the realm of a popcorn flick. even if the story is predictable, it has meaning and a some sort of purpose, whether that be political, moral, emotional, etc.

I think a lot of people are just trying to use the CGI and effects as a scapegoat for Avatar's success...which i dont see as fair. While I agree that the story is nothing special, my gripe with TF was that not only is the story weak, but the acting from both actors and robots are weak as well. Im not saying that the acting in Avatar is oscar worthy, however seeing what the actors had to do to portray their CGI rendered characters, that has got to count for something.

PS: Chinoz, hell yes im back on Oahu! I'll be here for awhile too, dont know when im headed back to NYC....while NY is cool, it gets old for me pretty quick. nothing like living in paradise

 

[uscmhicks]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

There will be Blood got " total film's " movie of the decade if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Sithlord1975]

I don't think that Avatar is a "check your brain at the door" film as Transformers or GI Joe are. Just the fact that there is a "message," no matter how simplistic it is, elevates it above a popcorn movie. But the message isn't really that simplistic when you think about it, and the thought that went behind the world of the film is boggling. You can actually look at the first few seconds of Avatar and wonder - how did they get to Alpha Centauri? Well, the ship design says something about the technology used - it's not in the dialogue or the plot, but it's in the backstory and it's obvious that a lot of consideration went into that. The same is true about just about every aspect of the film.

But does anyone wonder why giant robots change into cars and what kind of evolution these mechanical beings went through to arrive at this sort of mutation? It's just not worth thinking about.

Considering that there are 10 nominations for best picture for Oscar this year, I'm positive Avatar will be in there. But Transformers or GI Joe? I don't think so.

Titanic is in the top 50 films for me - I watch it at last once a year.

No you are right. It's not a check your brain at the door like I said. I more meant, it's just to be enjoyed for what it is. It's a visually amazing moving, with a basic story.
Where as Transformers was just a crappy story, terrible acting and dialogue, cheesy funny parts, CGI that was good, but so chaotic I couldn't make out what the hell was going on in the fights and what not.
Cameron is a much better story teller (simple as it may be) then Bay.
Agree everyone??

Also the fact that everyone is still buzzing and talking about this movie and arguing about it, is just adding to it's success anyway. Love it or hate, everyone is aware of it, people are curious and people have seen the movie. =$$$$

 

[Sithlord1975]

I thought this movie had some awesome emotional and powerful moments:

Spoiler

When her father dies.
When the tree gets destroyed, and even the people back at base feel guilt with what had just happened.
When she realizes Jake knew all along what was happening.
When the Tsutsey guy jumps in the carrier and starts throwing off people and fighting (in emotional slo-mo style lol), and dies.
When they meet face to face - I see you.

I can go on and on with a few more.

Generic, maybe cheesy stuff, but I fell for it all lol
I got into it.


I had no emotional connection with Transformers at all, even though I grew up with them too. Because it was just executed so crappy as a movie.

 

[Dusty]

But, ultimately, that IS the story! Of course there are little nuances, romance, etc, which all films have, but if you have to explain it in 5 sentences or less, it would go something like this:

Spoiler

Humans want resources to save their dying planet. Na'vi won't give it up without a fight, as the land is sacred and they are respectful of their planet and all living things, unlike the greedy sky people who have killed their planet. Fighting, of course, ensues, and the living planet/mother earth/Pandora comes to the rescue to drive off the humans.

It's the ultimate payback, via film, for any similar plot line that has taken place on earth (white man defeating the earth-loving Native Americans, rainforests being raped and pillaged, etc) - in fact, it's almost like when the Jews kill Hitler in Basterds... except Avatar is an allegory instead of a complete re-write of history, and the "good guy" is Earth and the "bad guy" is humanity itself.

As for your point, Dave, I would NEVER NEVER argue that the world of Pandora is lacking in excitement and thoughtfulness - it would be a huge disappointment if it was, after Cameron spent so many years of his life developing it! I'm simply arguing story on its most basic level. Take away the 3D and the amazing visuals, and would people still be flocking to see it?

Same with the Transformers movies - take away the amazing effects (and even if you hate the TF films you've got to admit that some of those effects are jaw-droppingly awesome), and what do you have left?

AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! Avatar, from what I've heard, is an amazingly entertaining movie. I can't wait to see it! Cameron has changed movie-making again, that's for sure. But if I'm looking for a great story, I usually turn to books... or more 'serious' films

Which brings me back to my original argument... some people went into the experience hoping for an amazing, life-changing story... those people are disappointed. There is nothing wrong with their opinion, they were just expecting something more than they got out of it. And in a way, they feel like they were falsely advertised to.

Those that went in just wanting to be entertained for 2 hour 45 mins, got exactly what they wanted out of it. There's nothing wrong with that either! Can't we all just get along?

And, for what it's worth, YES, I would love to know the backstory of the Transformers (as I never followed it as a kid - and when I ask Klauder, our resident TF geek about it, he just gets carried away and goes on and on about it so I get confused ), so I'd like to see a lot more of that in the future Transformers films. I just hope they are more like the first film and are better than Revenge of the Fallen (jedibear summed up the differences between those two perfectly)

 

[Dusty]

I will end with this great quote from TF, which is why I kinda get emotional at the end (and you gotta admit, it's kind a deep for a GIANT ALIEN ROBOT movie ):

With the AllSpark gone, we cannot return life to our planet. But fate has yielded its own reward: a new world to call home. We live among its people now, hiding in plain sight, but watching over them in secret, waiting...protecting. I have witnessed their capacity for courage, and though we are worlds apart, like us, there's more to them than meets the eye. I am Optimus Prime, and I send this message to any surviving Autobots taking refuge among the stars: We are here. We are waiting.

Let's just be thankful that we live the kind of lives that allow us to go see all of these movies (some of them multiple times) and to discuss them passionately on internet message boards! I will check back in with my final verdict once I've seen Avatar! Happy New Year everyone!

 

[Bannister]

I will end with this great quote from TF, which is why I kinda get emotional at the end (and you gotta admit, it's kind a deep for a GIANT ALIEN ROBOT movie ):



Let's just be thankful that we live the kind of lives that allow us to go see all of these movies (some of them multiple times) and to discuss them passionately on internet message boards! I will check back in with my final verdict once I've seen Avatar! Happy New Year everyone!

I can't believe you didn't name your son Optimus.

 

[Dusty]

I can't believe you didn't name your son Optimus.

The funny thing is, I think we threw it in the pot for possible middle names Boris was in there too (Travis is a huge Karloff fan), and so was Dio (as in Ronnie James).

 

[Eli26]

I will end with this great quote from TF, which is why I kinda get emotional at the end (and you gotta admit, it's kind a deep for a GIANT ALIEN ROBOT movie ):



Let's just be thankful that we live the kind of lives that allow us to go see all of these movies (some of them multiple times) and to discuss them passionately on internet message boards! I will check back in with my final verdict once I've seen Avatar! Happy New Year everyone!

You're such a smart cookie. Sometimes even too smart for your own good, and wasting it in such a meaningless thread. hehe Man, you people are way too compassionate for these films. But then again, I do love me some ShawShank Redemption! btw Did you see the 1/6 SSR figure Dusty? Keep on posting!

 

[Khev]

I really like that Avatar can be looked at as so many different types of stories, depending on what you want it to be.

An environmentalist movie
A white man oppressing the Native Americans story
A Jesus/Messiah allegory
A cautionary tale about unchecked modern military might
A classic Romeo/Juliet love story
A Joseph Campbell Hero's Journey
A kick-ass aliens vs. robots action epic

You really do have the option to take any one of the themes above, elevate it as the "reason" for the movie, and take everything else as peripheral. That's awesome, and a real beauty of its simplicity.