James Cameron's AVATAR discussion thread

[cr`]

If there's racism in this movie, it goes both ways. The heightened spirituality and superior culture of the Neytiri vs. the brutal, anti-nature exploitation of the humans is just as offensive as the suggestion that the Neytiri need a human to lead them to victory.

Would the latter have been different if Jake Sully had been played by a black actor? What about a blue one?

but he was not played by a black actor, wasnt he? and yes, to see a blue dude(real blue dude, not blue avatar of white dude) saving his own blue culture would be more agreeable to me. look, i have no problem with tom cruise saving the US over and over again in the M:I films, but must he save the japanese culture as well as if the real japaneses arent capable of it?

 

[King Darkness]

I find nothing racist about these movies. The people that find these types of films racist are the same type of idiots that will try to find something racist about a peanut butter sandwich.

In my opinion the message of these types of movies is not that the 'supreme race' comes along and saves the natives, but the oposite in fact. The message I get is that the 'supreme race' is so ____ed up morally, corupt and basically a ____ bag breed of big caca idiots. When a member of the 'supreme race' is taken away from his own peole and shown a different, more tree huggerish-love thy neighbor-war is not the answer-hippy-spiritual-ect. way of life, he sees the coruption and utter fail of his own race and becomes a 'better' being for his time with the natives. Thus turning of his own race, having now realized he sucks, his race sucks and they derserve to die for their failings as a whole.

If anyone should be offended by this movie, its humans, because the movie is pointing out our many failures as humans.

 

[cr`]

I find nothing racist about these movies. The people that find these types of films racist are the same type of idiots that will try to find something racist about a peanut butter sandwich.

In my opinion the message of these types of movies is not that the 'supreme race' comes along and saves the natives, but the oposite in fact. The message I get is that the 'supreme race' is so ____ed up morally, corupt and basically a ____ bag breed of big caca idiots. When a member of the 'supreme race' is taken away from his own peole and shown a different, more tree huggerish-love thy neighbor-war is not the answer-hippy-spiritual-ect. way of life, he sees the coruption and utter fail of his own race and becomes a 'better' being for his time with the natives. Thus turning of his own race, having now realized he sucks, his race sucks and they derserve to die for their failings as a whole.

must that white man be the one who becomes the red dragon rider(whatever that is called) then? must he be the one who give speeches before the battle and join all the clans? must he be the one who plan and defeat the bad guys' plot singlehandedly by destroying the bomb carrier? and what were those na'vi doing but just following the white dude's order.

of course, white supremacy is not the film's message, but dont deny that the subtext exists. jake sully is presented more than just someone who found enlightenment and switched side. he's presented as the savior in the film.

 

[devilof76]

That's the impression I always got too, KD. Tom Cruise was a belligerent drunk of a philistine American with no class or culture, and then he ends up as a captive of men who were better then him. He learns that every culture is better than America's, especially the one he was captured by, and then he turns. Anyone who finds racism in that, I suspect are so wrapped up in race in the first place that they cannot see anything but racism when a white actor is on-screen. To that attitude, representation is everything, and unless the cast looks like a census form or a Benneton ad, the only explanation is that man's greatest evil is snickering and twirling his mustache from the director's chair.

I read a blog recently where the author was freaking out over a 'black' DC character being drawn with 'white' features. People need to get over themselves. Or atleast get over their races. F'n racists...

 

[King Darkness]

must that white man be the one who becomes the red dragon rider(whatever that is called) then? must he be the one who give speeches before the battle and join all the clans? must he be the one who plan and defeat the bad guys' plot singlehandedly by destroying the bomb carrier? and what were those na'vi doing but just following the white dude's order.

of course, white supremacy is not the film's message, but dont deny that the subtext exists. jake sully is presented more than just someone who found enlightenment and switched side. he's presented as the savior in the film.

Meh....thats fine with me if you view it like that, I dont.

To each his own.

 

[Eli26]

It's just a movie, why do people make something out of nothing?

Weeks into a successful first month, and all of a sudden some maroon says it's racist, now everyone needs to discuss it. Bah! Are we all that bored?

 

[devilof76]

of course, white supremacy is not the film's message, but dont deny that the subtext exists.

999,999 times out of a million, subtext is superimposed by the viewer.

 

[cr`]

That's the impression I always got too, KD. Tom Cruise was a belligerent drunk of a philistine American with no class or culture, and then he ends up as a captive of men who were better then him. He learns that every culture is better than America's, especially the one he was captured by, and then he turns.

so far so good. but what else did he do after he turned though? you remember? the white man became the lover to a japanese woman whose husband he murdered, the white man became clan's leader most trusted person, the white alone survived while ALL japanese samurai were killed, the white man singlehandedly changed the mind of the japanese emperor's when even the emperor's most loyal subject could not. remember those?

999,999 times out of a million, subtext is superimposed by the viewer.

Meh....thats fine with me if you view it like that, I dont.

i'm a real psychic. here, let me demonstrate my power to prove it... i can see that you both are...

white.

 

[devilof76]

Is it the limitations of Tom Cruise's pigmentation, or your own presumptions that allow you to attribute so much significance to his race? Is that what caused all of those events in the film to happen the way that they did? The fact that he was white?

See, I would expect that kind of interpretation from a white supremacist, who would, naturally, have white on the brain. Of course, I wouldn't be shocked to get the same interpretation from someone who assumed white supremacism to be hiding around every corner.

Oh, and by the way...get ready to find out what your shoe tastes like.

 

[devilof76]

999,999 times out of a million, subtext is superimposed by the viewer.

i'm a real psychic. here, let me demonstrate my power to prove it... i can see that you both are...

white.

And, seriously? That just proves my point.

 

[cr`]

here, let's try this experiment for size...

all you white geeks, imagine this. and i mean really give it some thought in your mind. imagine... that all the na'vi are caucasians. and that jake scully is played by a black actor. you follow the story in the film as it is... how the black dude became the rider to the red beastie while all the white folks could do is just stare at him in awe, and how later the black dude gave rousing speeches and rallied all the white clans from all corners of pandora, lead the battle and won because he, the black dude, not any of the whites, just the black dude... talked to the mother earth and the mother earth listened to the black dude and saved the world.

same thing applied to the last samurai. the japanese turned into caucasians, and tom cruise turned into some japanese dude.

 

[devilof76]

How are the special effects and action sequences?

 

[cr`]

And, seriously? That just proves my point.

my point is you dont see my point because those guys on the screen have same race as yours and they were projections of the white man's fantasy, hence you have no problem with it.

and my shoes? why would i want to taste my shoes? but feel free to chew on it if you like though.

 

[cr`]

How are the special effects and action sequences?

answered some pages back. it might be hard to believe for some, but i always do try not to repeat myself.

 

[King Darkness]

i'm a real psychic. here, let me demonstrate my power to prove it... i can see that you both are...

white.

I'm Mexican.You fail.

Idiot.

 

[cr`]

i said i'm a psychic, not nostradamus. it's always a 50:50 shot with a psychic. idiot to you back.

 

[devilof76]

and my shoes? why would i want to taste my shoes?

Why, indeed.

 

[cr`]

Why, indeed.

no, really. it's yours to lick or chew if you want. or we can play catch with it. i throw you catch, of course.

 

[devilof76]

my point is you dont see my point because those guys on the screen have same race as yours and they were projections of the white man's fantasy, hence you have no problem with it.

Who said I have no problem with it? I think it makes for a weakass plot most times, which is why I never finished watching The Last Samurai. I've never been one for 'gone native' films.

What you're missing is that you have assumed that subtext will be absent for me because being white, I'm supposed to have certain assumptions about myself that would preclude me from understanding the slight against the 'secondary' race in the film. The flipside of this is that you assume someone from the non-white side of the conflict will be aware of the subtext, based upon the singular perspective of their race. The subtext is superimposed. You, yourself, have said as much.

 

[BadMoon]

Damn this thread is really going down hill quick. I think Avatards are worse than Twitards. And why I gots to be white?