Jazzinc Dioramas 1/12 1989 Batwing

[sj2106]

But with InArt doing what look like very high quality figures in 1/12 there could be more demand for 1/12 vehicles.

I'd love batmobiles in 1/6 but just don't have the space.

 

[Rondesmo]

I would say I don't agree with the poll having the batwing as the more popular choice over the batmobile. You're asking a group with mostly 1/6 collectors what 1/12 product will sell more. Sure there is crossover between collectors such as myself and I have more 1/12 stuff by a big number compared to 1/6. However, I would have never voted for the batwing over the batmobile. I feel most people that voted for the batwing in that closed group are just 1/6 collectors that can't find a way to display the a 1/6 batwing had they bought one.

This is exactly why Joost begun with the Batwing over the Batmobile.
Most of the 1/6 collectors did not have the funds and space for a 1/6 Batwing.
The 1/12 version is the perfect answer.

Concerning the Batmobile, the 1/6 audience have already had the choice between the entry and premium offers. Everyone is now pleased.
And as you said an big range of the 1/12 community is not willing to pay the premium price.

The 1/12 batwing was the logical choice IMO.

 

[Bleah]

This is exactly why Joost begun with the Batwing over the Batmobile.
Most of the 1/6 collectors did not have the funds and space for a 1/6 Batwing.
The 1/12 version is the perfect answer.

You're missing the point. This needs support that's why it is going through kickstarter. A better audience to ask for a 1/12 scale option is a bunch of 1/12 collectors and not a group of 1/6 collectors that couldn't buy the 1/6 version hoping 1/12 collectors to tag along to meet the numbers. It's like needing 100 orders, asking the 1/6 people with ten 1/6 collectors winning the vote and hoping ninety 1/12 would jump in instead of asking a dedicated 1/12 group and 100 1/12 collectors voting for the preferred choice.

And as you said an big range of the 1/12 community is not willing to pay the premium price.

Exactly. Didn't the batwing cost more than the batmobile even with all the bells and whistles of the batmobile outnumbering the batwing? So logically, a 1/12 batmobile should cost less than a 1/12 batwing. Also, I don't think every feature of the batmobile needs to be or can work on a smaller 1/12 version which can further drive the cost down.

The 1/12 batwing was the logical choice IMO.

I know you are big Joost defender but to this, i would even say - huh?

Either way, I think there's a good chance of this still getting funded with enough advertising to the 1/12 crowd and hitting the right price but to say it was logical because in terms of numbers based on a few 1/6 collectors that passed on the 1/6 version from a small closed group and not a dedicated 1/12 crowd plus mentioning premium pricing while ignoring that the 1/6 batwing cost more than the 1/6 batmobile is illogical.

 

[Captain Clown]

It’s insane that we still don’t have a truly “great” 1/12 Burton Batmobile. The McFarlane just looks too wonky. A shame Spinmaster didn’t make one alongside their huge Batwing.

 

[Rondesmo]

I know you are big Joost defender but to this, i would even say - huh?

I'm not sure I can be portrayed as a big Joost’s defender given that I've only purchased one of his products.
But I admit to preaching for my parish since I have been waiting for a good 1/12 batwing for a long time...

 

[Rondesmo]

To go further in my thoughts, I felt back on this pic.

It’s not a fake. I’m remember exactly when the guy posted it on the FB Jazzinc group page last year.

Even if the guy is not tall, it perfectly shows you how this thing is massive and almost impossible to display properly even for the used 1/6 community.
Add to this the fact that visually, it literally «cannibalize » all the rest of your collection IMO.

Every time I look at this pic, I know why I never PO it even if I’m a huge Batman 89 fan and I say to myself that a 1/12 version is more than enough.

This is why I understand Joost’s decision to prioritize this over the Batmobile in 1/12 scale.
The audience is larger IMO.

But @capitain Clown you’re right. The 1/12 community deserves a great 1/12 Burton mobile.

 

[Dave_W]

But @capitain Clown you’re right. People who dont have room for 1/6 vehicles deserve a great 1/12 Burton mobile.

FTFY

 

[Rondesmo]

It’s not what I meant.

1/12 scale is a true choice. It’s not necessarily a budget or space issue, you can simply prefer the 1/12 scale over 1/6.
You know I’m not a rich guy. This is why the Batmobile is and will be my only 1/6 vehicle purchase.

 

[shadows]

Anything over $350 and I don't see that happening. There are not enough 1/6 collectors interested imo. And 1/12 collectors won't pay $500-$600 to replace their McFarlane versions.

McFarlane is a totally different product. I think there is a market for premium 1/12 vehicles that is missing in the market. Those people who you say won’t replace their McFarlanes, they’d never buy high end 1/12 stuff so this Batwing isn’t for them. They stick with their Marvel Legends, Mezco, Mafex mostly under $200. Even then, some 1/12 collectors who do collect those brands probably do want premium vehicles and will happily pay $300+.

To me personally $300-$400 isn’t that expensive. Wasn’t the McFarlane Flash Batwing $200? I’ve seen reviews and that’s not worth $200. And 1/6 collectors pay $200+ on 1/6 figures everyday like MT 66 Alfred without complaints, why is a 1/6 figure worth $200-$300 but a high end 1/12 vehicle is not worth just a bit more considering it’s less units produced and more engineering involved.

My theory on why 1/12 vehicles don’t sell well today is that it’s totally underserved. There’s no company making premium 1/12 vehicles because it hasn’t been profitable to. 1/6 vehicles already represent a small market, but there is a market because people want to pair it with their premium 1/6 figures, but there isn’t premium 1/12 figures until Morfig came along, so those who are used to paying $50-$100 for 1/12 figures will mostly not be the market for this product.

I believe high end vehicles are marketed for both 1/6 and 1/12 collectors. Those who don’t want big ass 1/6 vehicles to hog space like myself, and want a highly detailed representation.

 

[shadows]

No 1/12 collector is buying that. More like for the statue crowd which the products are absurdly priced.

I don’t agree that no 1/12 collector will buy. See my reply to Mr Awesome above. Sure, no McFarlane collector who is used to spending $20 a figure will buy, sure you’re right about that.

 

[Bleah]

I don’t agree that no 1/12 collector will buy. See my reply to Mr Awesome above. Sure, no McFarlane collector who is used to spending $20 a figure will buy, sure you’re right about that.

Even for the figma or 1000 toys crowd that spends 100 to 200 for a figure, I really don't see them spending $1000 for that 1/10 polystone iron studios batmobile. The wheels don't even turn. It is essentially a statue and more expensive than the 1/6 Hot Toys one.

 

[shadows]

Even for the figma or 1000 toys crowd that spends 100 to 200 for a figure, I really don't see them spending $1000 for that 1/10 polystone iron studios batmobile. The wheels don't even turn. It is essentially a statue and more expensive than the 1/6 Hot Toys one.

Of course because they’re not the same market. Whatever that $1000 Batmobile gives you, it’s what that particular collector is seeking.

 

[Bleah]

Of course because they’re not the same market. Whatever that $1000 Batmobile gives you, it’s what that particular collector is seeking.

Are we talking about a general collector or a strictly/mostly 1/12 collector? There's a difference. I can agree with you if it's a general collector that has a mixed variety of stuff. But somebody who is mostly, if not entirely, a 1/12 collector most likely might not find that appealing. One of the traits 1/12 collectors have is wanting for the figures to be playable or poseable. That is why articulation matters and I would say the ability to spin and turn the wheels as well. If anything, that 1/10 Batmobile fits more in scale with McFarlane stuff but as you said, they most likely won't go for that. Has there been any 1/12 collectible that retailed for $500 and above that sold well?

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Well DC is McFarlane made for 1/12. I doubt they're a very large market for something in that price range. Mafex/Mezco collectors might dabble in wanting a JazzInc Batwing but not many if I had to guess.

 

[shadows]

Are we talking about a general collector or a strictly/mostly 1/12 collector? There's a difference. I can agree with you if it's a general collector that has a mixed variety of stuff. But somebody who is mostly, if not entirely, a 1/12 collector most likely might not find that appealing. One of the traits 1/12 collectors have is wanting for the figures to be playable or poseable. That is why articulation matters and I would say the ability to spin and turn the wheels as well. If anything, that 1/10 Batmobile fits more in scale with McFarlane stuff but as you said, they most likely won't go for that. Has there been any 1/12 collectible that retailed for $500 and above that sold well?

Mostly 1/12 collectors. If we compare between the 1/6 and 1/12 collectors, this Batwing will appeal more to the 1/6 collectors because they have the budget and requirement for detail, which is why earlier you said why Jazzinc didn't just do a poll with the 1/12 community instead asking his closed group which would sell better, wasn't really the right answer because he's not asking his group which would sell better, he's asking his existing customer base which they'd buy between two choices and only vote if you'll actually going to purchase. He's not going to go to Mafex group and ask whether you'll buy option A at $500 or option B at $500.

Has there been any 1/12 collectible that retailed for $500 and above that sold well?
The sample size isn't representative. HT did it once with The Bat. I guess is sold terribly because it's still in stock in Hong Kong. Jazzinc did it once with the BvS mobile and that sold terribly too. Joost said even with BvS being unpopular it still should've sold better.

Well DC is McFarlane made for 1/12. I doubt they're a very large market for something in that price range. Mafex/Mezco collectors might dabble in wanting a JazzInc Batwing but not many if I had to guess.

Yes, I agree. This discussion shouldn't be about whether this Batwing is or is not for a certain 'x' collector because to me whether it's the Batwing or not, I believe there's a market for premium 1/12 vehicles.

If Joost means what he says that it'll be priced around $300 (even if in reality it's up to $500), you're getting a bespoke non mass produced, limited run high end vehicle at 1/12. At best it's the same price as a normal HT figure, at worst, its the same as an Artisan Inart figure and still cheaper than 1/6 Hot Toys vehicles which to me aren't even worth $600. It should be no way near the same price as a cheap plasticky hollow feeling McFarlane Batmobile, which is what $150-$200 or something.

 

[sj2106]

I'd be fine with 500+ for 1/12 Batmobiles done to the standard of JazzInc vehicles. 89 and The Batman specifically. No interest in the Tumbler.

 

[Bleah]

Well DC is McFarlane made for 1/12. I doubt they're a very large market for something in that price range. Mafex/Mezco collectors might dabble in wanting a JazzInc Batwing but not many if I had to guess.

Mcfarlane scale is closer to 1/10. Chances are, even if mcfarlane collectors jumped in, their figures most likely won't fit inside this. It's only SHF and Mezco that made a 1989 but I can still see collectors putting a mafex in it. Just for comparison between the size of mcfarlane vs a SHF:

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Mcfarlane scale is closer to 1/10. Chances are, even if mcfarlane collectors jumped in, their figures most likely won't fit inside this. It's only SHF and Mezco that made a 1989 but I can still see collectors putting a mafex in it. Just for comparison between the size of mcfarlane vs a SHF:

View attachment 756964

I'm an odd ball here probably, but I never buy vehicles of any scale with intentions of putting figures in them. I simply don't see the point. But to each their own. I get it.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Mostly 1/12 collectors. If we compare between the 1/6 and 1/12 collectors, this Batwing will appeal more to the 1/6 collectors because they have the budget and requirement for detail, which is why earlier you said why Jazzinc didn't just do a poll with the 1/12 community instead asking his closed group which would sell better, wasn't really the right answer because he's not asking his group which would sell better, he's asking his existing customer base which they'd buy between two choices and only vote if you'll actually going to purchase. He's not going to go to Mafex group and ask whether you'll buy option A at $500 or option B at $500.

Has there been any 1/12 collectible that retailed for $500 and above that sold well?
The sample size isn't representative. HT did it once with The Bat. I guess is sold terribly because it's still in stock in Hong Kong. Jazzinc did it once with the BvS mobile and that sold terribly too. Joost said even with BvS being unpopular it still should've sold better.


Yes, I agree. This discussion shouldn't be about whether this Batwing is or is not for a certain 'x' collector because to me whether it's the Batwing or not, I believe there's a market for premium 1/12 vehicles.

If Joost means what he says that it'll be priced around $300 (even if in reality it's up to $500), you're getting a bespoke non mass produced, limited run high end vehicle at 1/12. At best it's the same price as a normal HT figure, at worst, its the same as an Artisan Inart figure and still cheaper than 1/6 Hot Toys vehicles which to me aren't even worth $600. It should be no way near the same price as a cheap plasticky hollow feeling McFarlane Batmobile, which is what $150-$200 or something.

It's the Jazzinc prices that will kill any chance of 1/12 collectors being very interested and it's the very few 1/6 collectors that are interested in 1/12 vehicles.

Yes, there are SOME from both camps. I do not believe there are enough of either, to make this a successful launch.

I personally don't need and am absolutely not interested in JazzInc level of detail, accuracy and features for a 1/12 vehicle. Because that just destroys the idea of getting any value from going the 1/12 route (cheaper).

There is no reality that exists where I am paying over $300 for a 1/12 scale vehicle.

Ever. For any reason. I'd wager I'm not alone on that. That I'm not the minority, but rather the majority opinion.

 

[Dave_W]

There is no reality that exists where I am paying over $300 for a 1/12 scale vehicle.

How about over £300 for a diecast 1/18?

https://www.autoartcollection.co.uk/product-page/aston-martin-db5-james-bond-goldfinger-007-70296

Or how about this

https://lmprestigemodels.co.uk/prod...4-2014-nero-nemesis-matt-black-autoart-12096/

£428 for a 1/12 Lamborghini.

I don't know how much crossover there is with 1/12 toy collectors, but there is clearly a market for expensive high end vehicles at a smaller scale.