JUSTICE LEAGUE movie

[karamazov80]

John Blake is not Batman.

Quoted for truth.

Double quoted for truth.

 

[Khev]

Triple Falcon Punched for Truth.

 

[karamazov80]

I think Reynolds' humor would play nicely off of Cavill and Bale.

I'm not a Joss Whedon fanboy.

So, I'm prefacing this post with that.

But I saw Justice League Doom for the first time last night. Nathan Fillion was Hal Jordan's voice, and I thought to myself--that really really works.

 

[Khev]

Did you see that skit where Fillion wore the Green Lantern suit? I guess it'd be cool if you wanted him to be the "Black Widow" of the Justice League....

 

[Darth Snoopy]

LMAO @ all the haters.

 

[thenammagazine]

Did you see that skit where Fillion wore the Green Lantern suit? I guess it'd be cool if you wanted him to be the "Black Widow" of the Justice League....

By that you mean the jiggly parts?

 

[Khev]

By that you mean the jiggly parts?

Yep.

 

[karamazov80]

Well, he ain't a spring chicken anymore I didn't see the skit you are referring to, no.

 

[EVILFACE]

I thought Reynolds was right as Lantern.

 

[batfan08]

They only did the 8 year thing for two reasons.

1. Ledger died (they wanted audiences and characters to move on from the idea that Joker was absent)

2. Joseph Levitt Gordon (His character would be useless if it was only a few years after TDK because he'd still be a kid)



He wasn't needed because it's simply written that way. The Mayor said that there's still crime, just not organized crime. So Bruce didn't quit because there wasn't anything to fight, he quit because of RAAAAAAAACHEL. Well that, and if it is true that he quit because he doesn't fight anything but organized crime then that makes him even more lame and useless.


Which in itself is a really crappy thing. This guy became Batman because he saw his parents die in cold blood. So his good friend (this wasn't even his girlfriend or wife) dies and he quits and stays at home? If anything, her death would make him even more enraged and he'd REALLY pursue crime as Batman. She was against crime just as much as Batman, she was a freaking assistant DA. That's what is cool about TDK. After she dies, he's forced to move on and he REALLY gets into character as Batman. The whole final act he's in total Batman mode and it ends with Batman becoming a "Dark Knight". TDKR scraps it.


The 8 years is just a cop out so people don't question anything. It's a simple, lame reason for points 1 and 2. Other cop outs include, "I WAITED FOR YOU WITH THIS DRINK, IN ITALY TO SEE IF YOU WERE HAPPY WITH A WIFE IN BATMAN BEGINS" and the awful, "I KNEW WHO YOU WERE BY LOOKING AT YOUR EYES . . . WHEN I WAS A BOI . . . DURING BATMAN BEGINS".

I respect your opinion, but I really have something that I'd like to inquire about: what, exactly, do you think would be the good of him continuing to go out and catch muggers, and have you ever considered the idea that, maybe, Rachel wasn't the only reason he quit? If anything, it would've done more harm than good. This is a guy that just took the blame for killing a few cops, a DA, and some criminals. What do you think would happen if he went out and started capturing criminals by non-lethal means? Love it or hate it, in TDK, his plan worked, and Gotham was at peace. Granted, Bane eliminated that, but, if Batman would've continued his vigilante mission, people would've become even more suspicious of his already out of character "murders", and the entire thing would've been for nought. His only option was to act like he'd went off the deep end and disappear. Either that, or continue to kill every criminal that he encountered, and, somehow, I think that you'd have hated serial killer Batman more than quitter Batman.

 

[Khev]

I respect your opinion, but I really have something that I'd like to inquire about: what, exactly, do you think would be the good of him continuing to go out and catch muggers, and have you ever considered the idea that, maybe, Rachel wasn't the only reason he quit? If anything, it would've done more harm than good. This is a guy that just took the blame for killing a few cops, a DA, and some criminals. What do you think would happen if he went out and started capturing criminals by non-lethal means? Love it or hate it, in TDK, his plan worked, and Gotham was at peace. Granted, Bane eliminated that, but, if Batman would've continued his vigilante mission, people would've become even more suspicious of his already out of character "murders", and the entire thing would've been for nought. His only option was to act like he'd went off the deep end and disappear. Either that, or continue to kill every criminal that he encountered, and, somehow, I think that you'd have hated serial killer Batman more than quitter Batman.

Yep. Some people are taking their agitation over his plan at the end of TDK working better than they assumed it would and using it as an excuse to rip on every facet of his character. Look at all the damage he did to the cops, public property, rooftops, etc., in BB *before* he was wanted for murder. And we're to expect him to do that on a nightly basis just to apprehend some common muggers? No, in the world of TDK that would have been absurd.

The mayor's enthusiasm clearly showed that the GPD was more than capable of handling the remaining low level crime after the complete eradication of organized crime and meddling crooked cops.

 

[brucecamblzchin]

FFS, I go to bed and then America wakes up and a million-squillion pages are added to the thread

 

[thenammagazine]

FFS, I go to bed and then America wakes up and a million-squillion pages are added to the thread

Sleep is for the weak.

 

[brucecamblzchin]

EX or fail.

 

[thenammagazine]

EX or fail.

 

[Adolfo]

No offense but I'm going to go with Chris Nolan's explanation for the 8 year gap over yours.

The Joker and Nolan are one and the same.....The Joker won in TDK causing the effect to Bruce/Batman...no other explaination needed

 

[Adolfo]

For JLA you will need a big ass villain so Darkseid could very well be the choice

 

[DiFabio]

I respect your opinion, but I really have something that I'd like to inquire about: what, exactly, do you think would be the good of him continuing to go out and catch muggers, and have you ever considered the idea that, maybe, Rachel wasn't the only reason he quit?

I know you do, I'll chime in. Let's just remember though that it's the Justice League thread.

I'll offer my thoughts,

Well for one, where's the task force out to get Batman? There would be investigations, detectives (if some random, orphan, nobody, could figure out Bruce's identity by looking in his eyes, what about the actual force), there should be plenty for Batman to do. Look at the end of TDK, you've got everyone on top of the MCU and Gordon smashing the bat signal on live television. Citizens would be angry, cops would be furious (now instead of putting cops in harms way, he's murdered them), everyone would want Batman's head on a silver platter.

In TDK and even in TDKR, we're deprived of Gotham's reaction to a killer Batman. I mean to them, he's killed Dent and all those cops. He may even be a co-conspirator with the Joker. "They'll cast you out, like a leper". He's the bad guy now. But yet we never see them want retribution? What about those that have doubts that he killed anyone at all? If you're going to make this great, big, thing out of Gotham, then back it up. Show me why these people would even care. Even when we find out in TDKR that he didn't those things, we get no reactions from ordinary citizens (save Blake, who has no involvement in Begins or TDK whatsoever). It's a little anticlimactic, isn't it? This whole epic ending for TDK, and this is the best result? A retired Batman, a random new villain discovering the truth in a letter from the Commissioner's pocket? I can't believe we all buy that?

Batman couldn't just "go into hiding", they're going to "hunt him", remember? You know that great avatar you have from the TDKR viral? "BATMAN: WANTED", this never comes to be, ever. Batman sort of just disappears and nobody talks about him anymore despite the fact that he'd be a public enemy in front of or behind the Joker (who is never mentioned again either).

What about Gordon's lines,

"We'll hunt him . . . because he can take it."

Evidently not?

When he does come back in TDKR, all we see is, Foley (also, no involvement in TDK whatsoever) wants to catch him a Batman and all the news is like is, "Batman's back". That's it. This should be a big moment. The guy that killed Dent is back! Nope, "Batman's back!".

There's also the freak element, which I've described before, that started with the Joker. Crime and the mob inspired Batman, Batman inspired the Joker, and Joker would inspire freaks. He had a following of crazies, Arkham inmates were still out there. This isn't just the mob being taken out by some contrived "Dent Act". The Joker already decimated them, and act that rounds up "organized" crime wasn't just going to magically cure the city. Batman would still be needed.

"We're destined to do this forever."

The ending of TDK, as melodramatic and Shakespearean as it is (if there's one gripe I have about the end, it's Gordon's preposterous speech), isn't Batman riding off in retirement. Just as with Batman Begins, it's his new role in Gotham. He's a Dark Knight now. He's not riding off to quit. The lie Gordon and Batman make up isn't for a peaceful, crime free Gotham, it's to keep Dent's good name intact and so that the prisoners he helped bring in, stay locked up. That's it. It was never bigger than that. Of course, TDKR pumps it up and makes it much more of an issue, all while forgetting about key players in TDK. Batman, The Joker, anyone involved with Dent, etc.

If anything, it would've done more harm than good. This is a guy that just took the blame for killing a few cops, a DA, and some criminals. What do you think would happen?

Then he should be hunted right? There would be an investigation where they'd question all those involved.

Gordon, Ramirez, anyone involved. "You can't just sweep that up".

GCPD would be knocking down doors to find who this guy was. Imagine if we actually got to see Gordon throwing off their trail so they wouldn't capture Batman. Instead, we get none of this. The city just goes quiet and somehow, everything that shouldn't work, works. On top of it, organized crime is completely low, there aren't any freaks or runnaway Arkham inmates, and Joker is nowhere to be found. The main catalyst in all of this (who would go on trial and also be a part of the investigation).

If he went out and started capturing criminals by non-lethal means?

Well, he didn't kill anyone before, perhaps they'd assume he was off his rocker?

Why doesn't anyone in Gotham question the fact that he did it anyway? I know what you're saying, "if he fought crime and didn't kill, people would question if he even committed the crimes".

I wouldn't really worry about that though. Gotham doesn't react to ANYTHING after TDK. Not when Batman comes back, not when the letter is read, nothing.

We never see their reaction or thoughts so what would it matter if he was out there fighting crime. We could assume anything because none of it is plausible in TDKR.

Love it or hate it, in TDK, his plan worked, and Gotham was at peace.

His plan, the reason he took the blame, was so that,

1. the criminals that Dent put away would stay in prison (not sure how this would work though, the actual Federal System doesn't work this way and surely Gotham would understand that the Joker drove Dent mad by killing his fiancee, burning off half his face and blowing up the hospital he was in. I think they'd understand it under "crime of passion")

2. so the Joker wouldn't win by having people see that Dent was a maniac

3. Dent could die with respect and not a tarnished reputation (Dent saves Batman by taking the blame and saying he was Batman, remember. Batman returned the favor)


None of this was so that "Gotham could be in peace". That's not how the Dark Knight ends. It ends with Batman taking the blame for murders he didn't commit so criminals Dent put away (he didn't put away everyone, like Arkham freaks, Joker, etc.) wouldn't be back out on the streets and so that Dent died with his name in tact, "a white knight".

That's all. There plan shouldn't work for 7 years. Yeah, it did, and that's one of my problems with TDKR. It's contrived nonsense and actually goes back and retcons things and creates new ideas that were never previously mentioned. It's done in a sloppy half ass way and any questions people had after TDK (and there were a ton) are ignored and we're thrown into a new world that conveniently forgets about the Joker, retires Batman, refuses to hunt for him or show us any of the aftermath of the night Batman took the blame for the murders. They do this with the time jump and the inclusion of "Da league of shadooooows".

 

[batfan08]

I chalk the lack of a manhunt up to the fact that 8 years have passed. You saw the beginning of TDK; their suspects ranged from Abraham Lincoln to Bigfoot. I admit that they probably would've stepped things up a bit after an influential public figure, along with some of their brothers, was murdered by this man, but you've got to think of it this way: this is a guy that can trash the town in his tank, and still disappear. Even if they did manage to connect it to Wayne, somehow, how could they possibly pursue it? The Tumbler? It wouldn't be the first time Wayne Enterprises technology was stolen, and a crazed murderer could just as well have been a thief. The bat cave?

Some lucky cop being able to conjure up the exact three notes needed to access it would be just as outlandish as an orphan boy being able to look into Batman's soul (that part was a little outlandish for me). Plus, you've got to remember that this manhunt probably would've commenced right away, so that would've been after the evidence in the storage locker was destroyed, and before construction commenced on the new Batcave. Even then, I'd assume they could only devote so much time and manpower to a case that was going nowhere; certainly not enough to continue the investigation after eight years. I chalk Foley's enthusiasm up to the case being one of those "unsolved mysteries" of the GCPD. The guy who caught the ninja who killed Harvey Dent, then disappeared without a trace for eight years? That'd be the equivalent of being the guy who found the Black Dahlia killer.

I also think Gordon might be another reason why Bruce never continued his crusade. In TDKR, we already see that, even without Batman continuing, there was already doubt in the citizens of Gotham regarding whether he actually did it. If he continued his mission; stopping the muggers and pushers of Gotham, that shadow of doubt would grow stronger, and that would lead to growing suspicion regarding Jim Gordon's story. He would, essentially, be putting his friend on the chopping block. Naturally, Batman isn't going to have any more sit downs at the GCPD, so all the heat would land on Gordon. Batman wouldn't do that. It's clear that Bruce wasn't entirely adamant about quitting, otherwise, he wouldn't have upgraded the Batcave, but I just think that he decided the cons outweighed the pros. As I've said before, he stopped being Bruce Wayne when he was eight years old, and, without Batman, he drifted into nothing.

 

[thenammagazine]

I chalk the lack of a manhunt up to the fact that 8 years have passed. You saw the beginning of TDK; their suspects ranged from Abraham Lincoln to Bigfoot. I admit that they probably would've stepped things up a bit after an influential public figure, along with some of their brothers, was murdered by this man, but you've got to think of it this way: this is a guy that can trash the town in his tank, and still disappear. Even if they did manage to connect it to Wayne, somehow, how could they possibly pursue it? The Tumbler? It wouldn't be the first time Wayne Enterprises technology was stolen, and a crazed murderer could just as well have been a thief. The bat cave?

Some lucky cop being able to conjure up the exact three notes needed to access it would be just as outlandish as an orphan boy being able to look into Batman's soul (that part was a little outlandish for me). Plus, you've got to remember that this manhunt probably would've commenced right away, so that would've been after the evidence in the storage locker was destroyed, and before construction commenced on the new Batcave. Even then, I'd assume they could only devote so much time and manpower to a case that was going nowhere; certainly not enough to continue the investigation after eight years. I chalk Foley's enthusiasm up to the case being one of those "unsolved mysteries" of the GCPD. The guy who caught the ninja who killed Harvey Dent, then disappeared without a trace for eight years? That'd be the equivalent of being the guy who found the Black Dahlia killer.

I also think Gordon might be another reason why Bruce never continued his crusade. In TDKR, we already see that, even without Batman continuing, there was already doubt in the citizens of Gotham regarding whether he actually did it. If he continued his mission; stopping the muggers and pushers of Gotham, that shadow of doubt would grow stronger, and that would lead to growing suspicion regarding Jim Gordon's story. He would, essentially, be putting his friend on the chopping block. Naturally, Batman isn't going to have any more sit downs at the GCPD, so all the heat would land on Gordon. Batman wouldn't do that. It's clear that Bruce wasn't entirely adamant about quitting, otherwise, he wouldn't have upgraded the Batcave, but I just think that he decided the cons outweighed the pros. As I've said before, he stopped being Bruce Wayne when he was eight years old, and, without Batman, he drifted into nothing.

I'm certain that even in Gotham, there's no statute of limitations on murder.