Logan (New Wolverine movie March 3rd 2017)

[Khev]

Avengers NYC battle is a must see in 3D!

Is it really? I read on another forum years ago that it was bad and that there were perspective issues like Thor and Hulk battling together on the leviathan and Thor looked like he was in the foreground while Hulk was in the background even though they were supposed to be right next to each other. Any truth to those claims that you've noticed? I deliberately avoided it because of complaints like that.

 

[GasparZizou]

Cinematography is really where most superhero films (especially those by Snyder and Singer) shine over most of the MCU. Now the Russos were very deliberate with having their DP give TWS an unstylized naturalistic look that pays homage to street level thrillers of the 70's so I see why some people were unimpressed (but go back and look at The French Connection or Three Days of the Condor, very little "style" compared to what we're used to today) but Whedon took it a step too far in the first Avengers flick because most of the movie does seem a bit sit-comish in appearance.

While I like Snyder's look, anybody can have pretty filters and competent composition, what I like of him is that he can show us story and characters through pictures alone, like having destroyed Wayne manor looming behind Bruce Wayne, or the upside down frame of angels and demons, or Supes standing up amidst skull-face painted people, the horses, etc etc, that's what it impressed me in my last Avengers watch, that I saw some of that in there, by Whedon no less, I can't say I remember that kind of stuff on Singer or even the Russos work so far.

Yeah the look of Avengers is pure TV show, but it's still not completely devoid of merit, I used to think so and I was wrong.

You might be right, and I didn't mean to dismiss your example, but that's just one of the few movies that I'll never understand how it did so well with the general audience and the critics.

Probably because of examples like the one I showed you, they love that ****, and so do I, it's a visual medium and it should be used for more than just going from scene to scene.

I can't say I remember storytelling through cinematography in most Singer movies, not because there's none, but because I haven't watched them in ages.

I especially want to revisit the 1st two Xmovies.

 

[jye4ever]

Nah, everything and everyone are where they're supposed to be.

 

[Khev]

Nah, everything and everyone are where they're supposed to be.

Hmm, I wonder if I was just reading complaints from a bunch of idiots who didn't know how to calibrate their TV's.

 

[jye4ever]

Could be lol

When Stark arrives at his building to confront Loki the 3D is oh so glorious, it just brings that battle to life.

 

[SNIKT1950]

You think the Avengers flicks are legitimately good movies?

The Avengers (2012) is a great movie.

Even Whedon and McGarvey's choice to shoot the film flat doesn't take away from it for me.

Solid 10/10.

Oh how I wish I could say the same about AOU & CW.

 

[GasparZizou]

Solid 10/10.

You are so harsh but your ratings are so nice and soft

You're like an angry marshmallow m8.

 

[pturtle]

While I like Snyder's look, anybody can have pretty filters and competent composition, what I like of him is that he can show us story and characters through pictures alone, like having destroyed Wayne manor looming behind Bruce Wayne, or the upside down frame of angels and demons, or Supes standing up amidst skull-face painted people, the horses, etc etc, that's what it impressed me in my last Avengers watch, that I saw some of that in there, by Whedon no less, I can't say I remember that kind of stuff on Singer or even the Russos work so far.

Yeah the look of Avengers is pure TV show, but it's still not completely devoid of merit, I used to think so and I was wrong.


Probably because of examples like the one I showed you, they love that ****, and so do I, it's a visual medium and it should be used for more than just going from scene to scene.

I can't say I remember storytelling through cinematography in most Singer movies, not because there's none, but because I haven't watched them in ages.

I especially want to revisit the 1st two Xmovies.

I just don't see that example you gave as that impressive. It's a little subtle but it would be on the same level as turning that filter read at the moment or something to show they're being influenced. Something like The Graduate, with the father blocking out the sun/son I find impressive and very subtle.

The Avengers (2012) is a great movie.

Even Whedon and McGarvey's choice to shoot the film flat doesn't take away from it for me.

Solid 10/10.

Oh how I wish I could say the same about AOU & CW.

I just can't see how this is a 10/10 movie. I mean, you complain about CW and risk taking, what risks did this movie take? Loki was a joke of a villain, making Coulson the reason why the team comes together felt like extremely lazy writing, and I find it funny how people crap on MOS destructive ending, meanwhile The Avengers are literally eating shawarma in the post credits scene instead of helping clean up the city. What little threat there was in the movie, Whedon turned into a joke, Iron Man flying into space with the nuke and throwing it at the Chitauri ship incapacitating the entire army was a cheap copout, and Iron Man passing out for nothing other than dramatic purposes made no sense, and the fact the Chitauri's staff was so weak that it couldn't even penetrate flesh of Cap and Widow was absolutely ridiculous. The movie is just one big giant joke in my eyes. I don't even need to talk about the cinematography, acting and dialogue, all of it was subpar.

 

[GasparZizou]

Something like The Graduate, with the father blocking out the sun/son I find impressive and very subtle.

But that's literally on the same level.

Putting a red filter would be smashing you in the face with it.

 

[pturtle]

But that's literally on the same level.

Putting a red filter would be smashing you in the face with it.

I don't see how it's on the same level at all, I'd even take The Dark Knight's Joker hanging upside down to Batman as better. Turning the camera upside down to show Loki's influence just isn't that deep in my opinion.

 

[GasparZizou]

I don't see how it's on the same level at all, I'd even take The Dark Knight's Joker hanging upside down to Batman as better. Turning the camera upside down to show Loki's influence just isn't that deep in my opinion.

Because you hate the movie. Because that example is also literally the same.

I understand, I hated it too, now I still don't like it but I respect it a little, something good had to come from Whedon.

 

[pturtle]

Because you hate the movie. Because that example is also literally the same.

I understand, I hated it too, now I still don't like it but I respect it a little, something good had to come from Whedon.

Believe me, I understand I sound like a hater, but to me it's a nice cool little visual touch to the scene but it's not really that deep and after just watching it on YouTube it wasn't very subtle at all. Either is the Joker/Batman scene in The Dark Knight, I just think that scene perfectly caps an incredible confrontation between the two and is far more subtle than the scene you picked with the Avengers. I just watched that scene again on YouTube with all of them arguing, outside of what you described, that entire scene is just horrible. I can't get over how bad the acting and cinematography is outside of that one shot you mentioned.

https://youtu.be/O7cF6vMfhR4

 

[GasparZizou]

Believe me, I understand I sound like a hater, but to me it's a nice cool little visual touch to the scene but it's not really that deep and after just watching it on YouTube it wasn't very subtle at all. Either is the Joker/Batman scene in The Dark Knight, I just think that scene perfectly caps an incredible confrontation between the two and is far more subtle than the scene you picked with the Avengers. I just watched that scene again on YouTube with all of them arguing, outside of what you described, that entire scene is just horrible. I can't get over how bad the acting and cinematography is outside of that one shot you mentioned.

This chity just ssshowed you that it's full of people hhhhh ready to believe in gewd.

Both are giving you moments of characterization by having characters upside down, yet one is deep and subtle and one isn't, just because.

C'mon, you can give better arguments than that, you usually do.

Or if you can't be arsed that's valid too, I take that route most of the time myself

 

[pturtle]

This chity just ssshowed you that it's full of people hhhhh ready to believe in gewd.

Both are giving you moments of characterization by having characters upside down, yet one is deep and subtle and one isn't, just because.

C'mon, you can give better arguments than that, you usually do.

Or if you can't be arsed that's valid too, I take that route most of the time myself

I clearly said TDK scene wasn't that deep or subtle either

But it was more subtle than the Avenger scene, there wasn't an emphasis on the shot with dramatic music playing in the background in TDK scene. The Avengers scene was pretty much telling us the staff was influencing them. It's a nice shot for sure, but not even remotely close to being subtle. It's why I originally mentioned The Graduate, because that was far more subtle.

Can you really say there was anything else good in that scene? The weird camera angle when Thor calls them petty, Stark smacking Cap's hand away like a little girl, and the fact that the scene is being shot in a way to show tension and drama but it conflicts with the acting because most of it doesn't come of as serious or funny, it comes off as awkward.

This is just one of those movies and scenes where I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[GasparZizou]

I clearly said TDK scene wasn't that deep either or subtle either

But it was more subtle in my opinion, there wasn't an emphasis on the shot with dramatic music playing in the background. The Avengers scene was pretty much telling us the staff was influencing them. It's a nice shot for sure, but not even remotely close to being subtle. It's why I originally mentioned The Graduate, because that was far more subtle.

Can you really say there was anything else good in that scene? The weird camera angle when Thor calls them petty, Stark smacking Cap's hand away like a little girl, and the fact that the scene is being shot in a way to show tension and drama but it conflicts with the acting because most of it doesn't come of as serious or funny, it comes off as awkward.

This is just one of those movies and scenes where I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

You said it was better, when it's literally the same. There's musicalization, it's a movie, so what? It wasn't even a cue, there's also dramatic music in that TDK scene.

Well, yeah, it's telling you that, scenes are supposed to tell you stuff.

That scene in the Graduate, literally half the screen blocked, that is subtlety...

Yes I can, I said it in my first post, everybody acting on their lower instincts instead of their good nature is immediately noticeable, the dialog is mostly good, I can't find anything particularly wrong with their delivery there, but you're saying you don't like all that, fine, you can not like it, but you haven't given me a good argument of one scene over the other on more objective terms, it ended up looking like you just can't concede because you don't like the movie or Whedon.

I can tell you I don't like the movie and I don't like Whedon, but I can concede that bit is a legitimately good bit of movie-making, even outside the CBM genre.

 

[Khev]

So in summary:

Put on a suit, let's go a few rounds.

I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

 

[pturtle]

You said it was better, when it's literally the same. There's musicalization, it's a movie, so what? It wasn't even a cue, there's also dramatic music in that TDK scene.

Well, yeah, it's telling you that, scenes are supposed to tell you stuff.

That scene in the Graduate, literally half the screen blocked, that is subtlety...

Yes I can, I said it in my first post, everybody acting on their lower instincts instead of their good nature is immediately noticeable, the dialog is mostly good, I can't find anything particularly wrong with their delivery there, but you're saying you don't like all that, fine, you can not like it, but you haven't given me a good argument of one scene over the other on more objective terms, it ended up looking like you just can't concede because you don't like the movie or Whedon.

I can tell you I don't like the movie and I don't like Whedon, but I can concede that bit is a legitimately good bit of movie-making.

I think you're just assuming too much

I did say he directed some really good action in the movie, the manhattan scene smokes the Apocalypse destruction scene in XMA, but that's about it.

How can I say one scene is better than the other in more objective terms? Art is subjective isn't it? I gave my opinion on why The Graduate and the TDK did it better, in my opinion you can watch both movies and kind of miss out on what the image is showing, where as with The Avengers it's too obvious, to you that might be good, and that makes sense, that's the point of the shot, to me it's not nearly as seamless and subtle as the other two examples I gave. They're a lot easier to miss, that's why I appreciate them more, but I never said the that shot in the Avengers is bad, just that it can't save that scene from all the horrible acting and camera work that follows it. If you enjoy it then good for you man, I don't want to make you hate that scene, but In my opinion, the scene is a joke, it all looks and sounds weird, the acting doesn't match the camera work or music, it's a weird mix of drama and humor. The acting also, wasn't good at all to me, if you think it was, then again, that's great, I don't see how we can debate something we can't prove each other wrong on

 

[GasparZizou]

I think you're just assuming too much

I did say he directed some really good action in the movie, the manhattan scene smokes the Apocalypse destruction scene in XMA, but that's about it.

How can I say one scene is better than the other in more objective terms? Art is subjective isn't it? I gave my opinion on why The Graduate and the TDK did it better, in my opinion you can watch both movies and kind of miss out on what the image is showing, where as with The Avengers it's too obvious, to you that might be good, and that makes sense, that's the point of the shot, to me it's not nearly as seamless and subtle as the other two examples I gave. They're a lot easier to miss, that's why I appreciate them more, but I never said the that shot in the Avengers is bad, just that it can't save that scene from all the horrible acting and camera work that follows it. If you enjoy it then good for you man, I don't want to make you hate that scene, but In my opinion, the scene is a joke, it all looks and sounds weird, the acting doesn't match the camera work or music, it's a weird mix of drama and humor. The acting also, wasn't good at all to me, if you think it was, then again, that's great, I don't see how we can debate something we can't prove each other wrong on

They're really not easy to miss at all, I'm telling you, at least that TDK and Avengers bits are virtually the same, sure art it's subjective, yet there are objective qualifications shared by the 3 examples which you favor in one and disfavor in other arbitrarily, but ok sure, to each their own. No hard feelings.

Singer sucks btw.

And he likes little boys.

You humans are so petty... And tiny.

 

[pturtle]

They're really not easy to miss at all, I'm telling you, at least that TDK and Avengers bits are virtually the same, sure art it's subjective, yet there are objective qualifications shared by the 3 examples which you favor in one and disfavor in other arbitrarily, but ok sure, to each their own. No hard feelings.

Singer sucks btw.

And he likes little boys.

Again, I disagree, I didn't even notice it when it first saw TDK, because of how seamless it was. Where as with The Avengers, the way the shot is done, and the music building up makes it far too obvious, I can't see anyone not understanding what that shot was trying to convey, but that's just me. TDK was obvious, but so much quality stuff was going on, and the seamless transition of the imagery of Joker hanging upside down, I missed it the first few times I watched the movie. Still it's not particularly that deep, or complex, but it is a nice shot. So is the Avengers' shot.

Agreed Singer does suck, just not at filmmaking

All jokes aside, as much as I love his X-Men films, I'm pretty sure he really is a ****. I saw some documentary a few months ago, and seeing the company he keeps, he has to be or at the very least knew what was going on, plus he looks like one

 

[GasparZizou]

Well, it's the power position, there's Polanski too.