look so old to young eyes do i.....

[Mad Old Lu]

i can write the dialogue. i make a living writing scripts for tv and radio commercials anyway. and i've written a few film scripts of my own. not sci-fi, more in the realm of character-driven pieces, like tarantino likes to do. now i ain't no tarantino, but i sure as heck am a better writer than lucas.

Now THAT would be great to see! A SW film with great dialogue! Imagine that!

 

[tylerdurden]

lol lol lol, tyler u crack me up bro!. i m actually a huge fan of the secret apprentice starkiller too. i mean the game is one of my fav's and the way it explains the birth of the rebelion was amazing!!!..maybe they should got some of those writers to do the prequels..he is by far one of my fav star wars characters!!.. the cinematics that tell the story in the game are a movie in themselves!!.

glad to keep u amused, mate. heh. i haven't played the game yet, somehow never got round to it. the last good game i played was god of war 2. geez i'm so out of touch.

Looks similar to Grievous in the legs... Think this pic is from before Grievous though... So we could get an actor to be maul and CG his legs...

I feel like we need to make our own versions of the PT... BTW, would we keep the clones? Could we throw in some clone commandos in EP II version 2? Do we keep or throw away the battle on Geonosis?

that looks pretty badass.

y'know, the clones as depicted in the prequels never really were what i had envisioned in my mind, the first time obi-wan spoke of them way back in the OT. i mean, the similarities were there---a manufactured army of cloned humans. but i always saw them as being more like bishop from aliens. synthetic life-forms rather than 100% organic. i know that goes against the concept of clones, but in my head, the whole assembly-line factor of their creation kinda lent itself to them being more artificial in nature. the bad guys (whoever they were who created them---i hadn't thought that part through) just had an endless supply of these clones who could be easily and cheaply replaced on the battlefield. so the good guys would be ridiculously outnumbered by this factory-produced army, and only the supreme mastery of the force that the jedi of the old republic possessed would be able to take them on.

and in my head, u could see the face of the clone army. i never liked the concept of them being the precursors to the stormtroopers. to me, stormtroopers were just regular human grunts--- they just looked the same cos they were all wearing helmets n uniforms. but the clones in my version were creepy cos they had human faces but were totally expressionless. cold, unquestioning killers. kinda like an army of arnold t-800s, fully-fleshed, in identical body armour, wielding identical weapons swarming all over a vast battlefield, calmly and methodically blasting everything in sight. and on the other side, a small army of jedi. including a young obi-wan and his apprentice anakin skywalker. who used their wits, cunning and force-powers to outsmart the clone army...

sorry for the long-winded description. but just wanted to share.

 

[the dude person]

glad to keep u amused, mate. heh. i haven't played the game yet, somehow never got round to it. the last good game i played was god of war 2. geez i'm so out of touch.





that looks pretty badass.

y'know, the clones as depicted in the prequels never really were what i had envisioned in my mind, the first time obi-wan spoke of them way back in the OT. i mean, the similarities were there---a manufactured army of cloned humans. but i always saw them as being more like bishop from aliens. synthetic life-forms rather than 100% organic. i know that goes against the concept of clones, but in my head, the whole assembly-line factor of their creation kinda lent itself to them being more artificial in nature. the bad guys (whoever they were who created them---i hadn't thought that part through) just had an endless supply of these clones who could be easily and cheaply replaced on the battlefield. so the good guys would be ridiculously outnumbered by this factory-produced army, and only the supreme mastery of the force that the jedi of the old republic possessed would be able to take them on.

and in my head, u could see the face of the clone army. i never liked the concept of them being the precursors to the stormtroopers. to me, stormtroopers were just regular human grunts--- they just looked the same cos they were all wearing helmets n uniforms. but the clones in my version were creepy cos they had human faces but were totally expressionless. cold, unquestioning killers. kinda like an army of arnold t-800s, fully-fleshed, in identical body armour, wielding identical weapons swarming all over a vast battlefield, calmly and methodically blasting everything in sight. and on the other side, a small army of jedi. including a young obi-wan and his apprentice anakin skywalker. who used their wits, cunning and force-powers to outsmart the clone army...

sorry for the long-winded description. but just wanted to share.

so.... clones + jedi vs. droids = a no-no?

Personally one of my favorite points in all of Star Wars is the battle of Geonosis. Gunships 'splodin things all round, big death-starish core ships crashing back to the ground, clone troopers running everywhere, blaster bolts flying...

I also like the subplot of having palps control a good army and the bad army that fights it to get "emergency powers", and to destroy the Jedi.

I think we should keep the clone wars, I also like EP II armor (we can trash or modify EP III style IMO)... But we should extend the Order 66 scenes and have more Jedi win... maybe even someone could play Quinlan Vos?

BTW, I think clones faces should have been expressionless, and they were for the most part in EP II, but in the CW series you're supposed to care about them, and they have "emotions", and they question orders! Completely defeats the purpose... Same with Battle-droids: supposed to be cheap, easy to manufacture, and will do whatever you tell them. But noooo in CW series, I think they once scared one so bad they were able to interrogate it or something...

After we re-do the PT, then we gotta move on to re-do the CW series. The RIGHT way...


PS here's a GIF of my completely scratch modeled clone helmet (EP II stlyle)

why won't my gif loop??

 

[tylerdurden]

so.... clones + jedi vs. droids = a no-no?

I also like the subplot of having palps control a good army and the bad army that fights it to get "emergency powers", and to destroy the Jedi.

I think we should keep the clone wars, I also like EP II armor (we can trash or modify EP III style IMO)... But we should extend the Order 66 scenes and have more Jedi win... maybe even someone could play Quinlan Vos?

BTW, I think clones faces should have been expressionless, and they were for the most part in EP II, but in the CW series you're supposed to care about them, and they have "emotions", and they question orders! Completely defeats the purpose... Same with Battle-droids: supposed to be cheap, easy to manufacture, and will do whatever you tell them. But noooo in CW series, I think they once scared one so bad they were able to interrogate it or something...

After we re-do the PT, then we gotta move on to re-do the CW series. The RIGHT way...

i always saw the clone army as the BAD guys, controlled by bad guys. not fighting alongside the jedi but against them right from the start. lucas' idea had merit in that they were secretly programmed to turn traitor when the time came. but he just didn't give the idea enough weight. the betrayal felt shallow to me...

personally, i wouldn't keep the clone wars exactly as it plays out right now. but to me, this isn't as big a deal as some other plot points in the prequels. like how anakin turned to the dark side. now in THAT dept, lucas REALLY dropped the ball!

thoughts on this, anyone?


btw, if u can't load a gif, try posting jpgs of the helmet in various angles...

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Oh gosh, there are so many ways the Anakin storyline could have gone. I always entertained the thought that Anakin never really turned bad and only committed to the dark side in order to spare Obi Wan and Padme/his children. I figure Anakin was suspicious and jealous of Padme and Obi Wan's friendship, which would have led to his initial alliance with Palp. Once he found out the truth, it was too late for him to turn back and figured he could do them more help from the empire's side. I pictured Obi and Anakin confronting each other, with Palp looking on, and Anakin giving him a show, but it was more to buy some time and keep Palp distracted while Padme escaped to safety. The duel would end with Anakin giving Obi the upper hand, so Obi could also escape to protect Padme. He would make Obi swear he tell Padme that Anakin was "dead" and the monster working with Palp is Vader. The tragedy would be that everyone, including Padme, would forever think Anakin was evil, when he only joined Palp in order to save his loved ones. Anakin would continue to do whatever he could to help the Jedi, but secretly and underhandedly doing it from the empire's side. I also saw his change to full-masked Vader to have been more gradual. Perhaps Obi only sliced off his other arm, but at the end of ROTS Vader would be in his usual black outfit with only up to the neck brace of the helmet. His head and face was still open air and he would get the full mask and helmet sometime later.

 

[Agent0028]

The whole way the clone army came about never made sense to me. Dooku commissions it under the guise of another jedi, but then he doesn't utilize them. Then Yoda finds out about them and decides to use them, which seemed out of character. I don't care too much for the idea of the clones being machine like humans. However I do think they should have been the bad guys. And not precursors to the Stormtroopers. I say we keep the unofficial backstory that most stormies were people recruited by the Empire, but some were also the result of the empire experimenting with cloning. Which is an idea Palpatine got from the bad guys before the empire.

 

[sidusvir]

Long time lurker, first time poster but I couldn't help but want to get involved in this thread. I hope what I say makes some sense.

Regarding the prequel trilogy stuff, I think Maul had to die at the end of EpI because he was too much of a warrior type to lead the separatist movement, a role for which Dooku was ideal. Plus if he survived Obi-Wan would have recognised him and the plot to lead the galaxy toward civil war would have been revealed as a sith one.

As for the Clones defeating the Jedi so easily. While not droids the clones were designed to follow orders and had no feelings one way or another about executing them. So when order 66 came through they followed it blindly and that is why the Jedi couldn't sense their fate (remembering the dark side had clouded their ability to see the future as well). Yoda sensed the deaths of all the other Jedi so was probably more aware and ready for the attack.

 

[the dude person]

Long time lurker, first time poster but I couldn't help but want to get involved in this thread. I hope what I say makes some sense.

Regarding the prequel trilogy stuff, I think Maul had to die at the end of EpI because he was too much of a warrior type to lead the separatist movement, a role for which Dooku was ideal. Plus if he survived Obi-Wan would have recognised him and the plot to lead the galaxy toward civil war would have been revealed as a sith one.

As for the Clones defeating the Jedi so easily. While not droids the clones were designed to follow orders and had no feelings one way or another about executing them. So when order 66 came through they followed it blindly and that is why the Jedi couldn't sense their fate (remembering the dark side had clouded their ability to see the future as well). Yoda sensed the deaths of all the other Jedi so was probably more aware and ready for the attack.

That is what it is supposed to be like, but once again now the clones are being given emotions and feelings and all, ruining the plot right there...

 

[Agent0028]

The clones were human, I don't think they were emotionless in executing their orders (and the Jedi lol). But their ultimate loyalty was to the republic so their choice was clear.

Also, if Maul survived I wouldn't make him lead the seperatist movement. That could still go to Dooku, Maul would be the behind the scenes guy assasin type.

 

[the dude person]

The clones were human, I don't think they were emotionless in executing their orders (and the Jedi lol). But their ultimate loyalty was to the republic so their choice was clear.

Also, if Maul survived I wouldn't make him lead the seperatist movement. That could still go to Dooku, Maul would be the behind the scenes guy assasin type.

I agree.

But, the clones were not human (per se), they were genetically modified to be much less emotional and less individual than a normal human would be.

 

[tylerdurden]

Oh gosh, there are so many ways the Anakin storyline could have gone. I always entertained the thought that Anakin never really turned bad and only committed to the dark side in order to spare Obi Wan and Padme/his children. I figure Anakin was suspicious and jealous of Padme and Obi Wan's friendship, which would have led to his initial alliance with Palp. Once he found out the truth, it was too late for him to turn back and figured he could do them more help from the empire's side. I pictured Obi and Anakin confronting each other, with Palp looking on, and Anakin giving him a show, but it was more to buy some time and keep Palp distracted while Padme escaped to safety. The duel would end with Anakin giving Obi the upper hand, so Obi could also escape to protect Padme. He would make Obi swear he tell Padme that Anakin was "dead" and the monster working with Palp is Vader. The tragedy would be that everyone, including Padme, would forever think Anakin was evil, when he only joined Palp in order to save his loved ones. Anakin would continue to do whatever he could to help the Jedi, but secretly and underhandedly doing it from the empire's side. I also saw his change to full-masked Vader to have been more gradual. Perhaps Obi only sliced off his other arm, but at the end of ROTS Vader would be in his usual black outfit with only up to the neck brace of the helmet. His head and face was still open air and he would get the full mask and helmet sometime later.

hmmm. very interesting take on anakin's fall from grace. it certainly adds a more tragic and poignant dimension to it. nice. but that also means he isn't really a bad guy which makes all the subsequent nasty stuff he did kinda contradictory to his secretly good nature. like the casual murder of his own officers ("apology accepted, captain needa.")

i think what u proposed is a great starting point. as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. but along the way, the more immersed anakin got with the dark side, the more he was twisted by it. plus his duel with obi-wan in epIII was indeed supposed to have left him severely injured and almost dead. so while i like the gradual adding-on of the vader armour, that duel left him not just physically damaged, but emotionally as well. so imo, from that point onwards, he absolutely despised obi-wan and all that the jedi stood for.

The whole way the clone army came about never made sense to me. Dooku commissions it under the guise of another jedi, but then he doesn't utilize them. Then Yoda finds out about them and decides to use them, which seemed out of character. I don't care too much for the idea of the clones being machine like humans. However I do think they should have been the bad guys. And not precursors to the Stormtroopers. I say we keep the unofficial backstory that most stormies were people recruited by the Empire, but some were also the result of the empire experimenting with cloning. Which is an idea Palpatine got from the bad guys before the empire.

that's the way i saw it too. the stromtroopers in the OT can't ALL have been clones. there would've been a fair number of normal working-class dudes who signed up, just like with any military.

Long time lurker, first time poster but I couldn't help but want to get involved in this thread. I hope what I say makes some sense.

Regarding the prequel trilogy stuff, I think Maul had to die at the end of EpI because he was too much of a warrior type to lead the separatist movement, a role for which Dooku was ideal. Plus if he survived Obi-Wan would have recognised him and the plot to lead the galaxy toward civil war would have been revealed as a sith one.

i never saw maul as the leader of the separatist movement. he's always been a "hand", a guy who does the dirty work while the real brains of the operation is hidden in secrecy. to me, that should've been palpatine/sidious, and no one else. as another forummer suggested, dooku could've just been a disgruntled jedi who thought (wrongly) that war would solve the republic's woes. a good guy who went about things in precisely the wrong way, and by default became a "bad" guy. and sidious, being the master manipulator that he is, happily capitalized on this. and got dooku to unwittingly do more of his dirty work for him.

great points u made though. good that u've stopped lurking and joined in the madness!

 

[Agent0028]

I agree.

But, the clones were not human (per se), they were genetically modified to be much less emotional and less individual than a normal human would be.

That's true, but I guess I take a bit of an Ian Malcolm perspective on it that science cannot totally overcome nature.

 

[the dude person]

That's true, but I guess I take a bit of an Ian Malcolm perspective on it that science cannot totally overcome nature.

Life always finds a way... to survive that is...

but cloning and genetically modifying dinosaurs is a lot different from cloning and genetically modifying jango fett! (he isn't that old )

 

[Agent0028]

Yes, but nature is nature and I don't think human tendencies towards emotion and individualism can be so easily wiped out. But hell, they had full grown men who were educasted and fully combat trained in a few months, so who am I to say they can't make them human droids? But still I prefer the clones to be alot more human than others give them credit for. Alot of the probably comes from enjoying Karen Traviss' Republic Commando books. She really makes Clones more interesting than some of the main characters in the PT.

 

[the dude person]

Yes, but nature is nature and I don't think human tendencies towards emotion and individualism can be so easily wiped out. But hell, they had full grown men who were educasted and fully combat trained in a few months, so who am I to say they can't make them human droids? But still I prefer the clones to be alot more human than others give them credit for. Alot of the probably comes from enjoying Karen Traviss' Republic Commando books. She really makes Clones more interesting than some of the main characters in the PT.

She sure does. Only read Order 66 so far tho...

And BTW, they were grown in 10 years originally...

Spoiler

Few months was only Centaz II clones

 

[Mad Old Lu]

hmmm. very interesting take on anakin's fall from grace. it certainly adds a more tragic and poignant dimension to it. nice. but that also means he isn't really a bad guy which makes all the subsequent nasty stuff he did kinda contradictory to his secretly good nature. like the casual murder of his own officers ("apology accepted, captain needa.")

i think what u proposed is a great starting point. as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. but along the way, the more immersed anakin got with the dark side, the more he was twisted by it. plus his duel with obi-wan in epIII was indeed supposed to have left him severely injured and almost dead. so while i like the gradual adding-on of the vader armour, that duel left him not just physically damaged, but emotionally as well. so imo, from that point onwards, he absolutely despised obi-wan and all that the jedi stood for.

It's funny you mention that because I remember someone mentioning somewhere that it seemed like Vader only ever killed his own people, i.e. Empire officers which is what the good guys should do!

But yes, I also saw that he started out with the good intentions to protect his loved ones, and eventually got so entrenched in the lifestyle that he couldn't see a way back by the time Luke came around. Like a cop so deep undercover in the mob that he doesn't really know where his true allegiance lies.

 

[tylerdurden]

hahahaha! y'know, i never realized it til u brought it up---but it's true that vader only ever kills his own people! so maybe your double-agent theory could work after all...

still, he couldn't care less about whether han lived or died when he used him as a guinea pig for the carbon-freezing process. sure, han's a smuggler and considered a criminal by the empire, but it was known to all that he was helping the rebels and thus, a good guy. maybe vader just didn't like scoundrels.

and regarding that whole nature vs nurture issue of the clones: i think it would make sense that if you're manufacturing soldiers u'd want them to be as obedient as possible. so whatever latent "human" nature in them would have to be suppressed to the point where it was a non-issue for those controlling them. if the clones in the clone wars series developed strong personalities to the point of questioning orders and whatnot, it just means the programming/genetic engineering failed. or, more likely, the writer(s) of the series just wanted to inject some interest into the boring clones. either way, to me, i never cared much for the clone army.

 

[Agent0028]

Erm...Captain Antilles would disagree...

 

[tylerdurden]

whoops, then i guess that flushes mad old jim's theory right down the sink.

unless of course, antilles survived that nasty choke. maybe he's just bumbling around somewhere in a wheelchair now...