LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[Kuzeh]

It's funny, because this is a chicken vs. egg situation..
In theory, all things will keep happening again and again forever!!!
I honestly think though, as somebody posted^earlier, that the show will end with everybody alive and reaching their destinies,
and surviving one hell of a ride!!!

 

[El Skutto]

As for Faraday, he is credited for Follow the Leader and The Incident Part I & II, but that could just be misleading. I hope that he is brought to the temple to be healed.

From an article I just read, that may be wishful thinking. Apparently, the producers have said that two major characters would die before the season finale, and many are assuming that Dan was death #1.

The only problem I had with last night's episode was the bit where Dan went into the Others' camp with his pistol out, waving it wildly and demanding to speak to his mother. Considering that most of the campers were armed, didn't it seem counter-intuitive to go in all Rambo-like? This is Dan Faraday, after all; the guy who probably never threw a punch in his entire life. So why go totally aggro all of a sudden?

 

[Darth Caedus]

From an article I just read, that may be wishful thinking. Apparently, the producers have said that two major characters would die before the season finale, and many are assuming that Dan was death #1.

The only problem I had with last night's episode was the bit where Dan went into the Others' camp with his pistol out, waving it wildly and demanding to speak to his mother. Considering that most of the campers were armed, didn't it seem counter-intuitive to go in all Rambo-like? This is Dan Faraday, after all; the guy who probably never threw a punch in his entire life. So why go totally aggro all of a sudden?

I asked my brother the SAME question as he was walking in waving a gun. I found it out pretty out of character for him to be waving a gun; especially since he asked "do you have one for a beginner?" I guess they had to have him waving a gun so his mother would have "justification" for shooting him....

 

[DarthNeil]

If Daniel is dead then it was a great death-- very poignant to have his mother be the one to kill him--and have her know all that time... but was it all for the journal?

 

[Giant Chicken]

the previews show Jack and Kate with the journal next week... I wonder if they are working alone or with the others? Also, I am ready to see Sayid again... and Sawyer and Juliete look like they are in a pickle.

 

[Giant Chicken]

Here is a look of the season 5 DVD cover...

LOST-SEASON 5

Not sure if I like the color.. I liked how the previous seasons had a solid color (grey, orange, green, blue) but now we get a weird white color. I suppose they are using it because of the flashes of light on the island but I dont really dig it...

 

[Moonloop]

I asked my brother the SAME question as he was walking in waving a gun. I found it out pretty out of character for him to be waving a gun; especially since he asked "do you have one for a beginner?" I guess they had to have him waving a gun so his mother would have "justification" for shooting him....

Yeah, same here. Everyone is wondering the same thing, why would Daniel Faraday go all Rambo into the Hostiles camp? As El Skutto said, he has probably never thrown a punch in his life.

This is the problem I had with his death, sure his mother can kill him....i'm fine with that. But the simple fact that Dan went in the Hostile camp, so out of Character acting like Rambo was just BS on the writers part.

As for a 2nd death? I thought there was going to be only one, but I can definately see another LOSTIE dying. I would guess Sayid.....

 

[Moonloop]

Here is a look of the season 5 DVD cover...

LOST-SEASON 5

Not sure if I like the color.. I liked how the previous seasons had a solid color (grey, orange, green, blue) but now we get a weird white color. I suppose they are using it because of the flashes of light on the island but I dont really dig it...

I don't like it either, I hope it isn't legit. They mentioned the info is from Amazon.com only and not directly from the studio, so the cover could change.

But I am very interested in the Dharma Initiation version!

 

[Entropy]

This is the first one with a subtitle ? DVD Season 5: The Journey Back

 

[Moonloop]

This is the first one with a subtitle ? DVD Season 5: The Journey Back

Seems like it, I just looked at Season 1-4 and there was no subtitle.


BTW here is a photoshop of a different color for the cover that someone made. I for one really like this red/burgundy look:

 

[orc brute]

Yeah, same here. Everyone is wondering the same thing, why would Daniel Faraday go all Rambo into the Hostiles camp? As El Skutto said, he has probably never thrown a punch in his life.

This is the problem I had with his death, sure his mother can kill him....i'm fine with that. But the simple fact that Dan went in the Hostile camp, so out of Character acting like Rambo was just BS on the writers part.

As for a 2nd death? I thought there was going to be only one, but I can definately see another LOSTIE dying. I would guess Sayid.....

maybe daniel knew that his mother would kill him , like when he spoke to the little girl on the swing like he was saying goodbye as if he knew he would not see her again , maybe he knew he had to die for the future events to happen
.

 

[Agent0028]

He might have known he was going to be killed (or even needed to be killed, maybe that's why he went in waving the gun) but I don't think he knew it was going to be his mom based on his reaction.

Can you imagine how she felt when Daniel started getting old enough to remind her of that guy she shot way back when and finally understanding his last words?

 

[El Skutto]

maybe daniel knew that his mother would kill him , like when he spoke to the little girl on the swing like he was saying goodbye as if he knew he would not see her again , maybe he knew he had to die for the future events to happen
.

I seriously doubt it, as he appeared genuinely surprised when he saw that his mother had shot him. Not to mention that he clearly believed he could now change the future, being a "variable" and all, so he tried to change Charlotte's destiny.

What we're discovering is that the future doesn't happen despite their efforts to change it, rather, that the future happens because they try to change it.

 

[Agent0028]

I seriously doubt it, as he appeared genuinely surprised when he saw that his mother had shot him. Not to mention that he clearly believed he could now change the future, being a "variable" and all, so he tried to change Charlotte's destiny.

What we're discovering is that the future doesn't happen despite their efforts to change it, rather, that the future happens because they try to change it.

Eaxactly, because what happened, happened.

 

[El Skutto]

Eaxactly, because what happened, happened.

Not necessarily. That implies that those events will happen regardless of what anyone does. But that's clearly not the case. Had Kate not had the stupid idea to get help for Ben, he definitely would have died from his gunshot wound and never gotten involved with the Others.

Dan KNEW that Charlotte had met him as a child, as she told him what he told her and that he had scared her. So why the heck did he think that talking to her would change the future? If anything, he should have tried to avoid any and all contact with her to see if that would be sufficient to change future events.

So, Dan's claim that "whatever happened, happened" is totally incorrect. It's more like "whatever happened, happened because we tried to prevent it from happening".

I'm ready to bet that we'll see that the "incident" which created the hatch/button situation is a direct result of the actions of our heroes, trying specifically to prevent it from occuring. Delicious, delicious irony.

 

[Moonloop]

Not necessarily. That implies that those events will happen regardless of what anyone does. But that's clearly not the case. Had Kate not had the stupid idea to get help for Ben, he definitely would have died from his gunshot wound and never gotten involved with the Others.

Dan KNEW that Charlotte had met him as a child, as she told him what he told her and that he had scared her. So why the heck did he think that talking to her would change the future? If anything, he should have tried to avoid any and all contact with her to see if that would be sufficient to change future events.

So, Dan's claim that "whatever happened, happened" is totally incorrect. It's more like "whatever happened, happened because we tried to prevent it from happening".

I'm ready to bet that we'll see that the "incident" which created the hatch/button situation is a direct result of the actions of our heroes, trying specifically to prevent it from occuring. Delicious, delicious irony.

No, Whatever Happened, Happened. The survivors always were there in 1977 and were always there that caused the events that happened. Things happened the way they did in 1977 with the LOSTIES always being there. They had a direct effect on the events in 1977 and they always have.

Dan went and talked to kid Charlotte because he told her to never come back (although we didn't see it, that is the assumption as he saw her die and she told him he told her to never come back....AND in The Variable we see him approach Charlotte almost in tears and begins to tell her to leave. But the camera cuts before we have a chance to see him finish the convo).

Now Charlotte told Daniel before she died that HE told her to never come back. But Daniel had yet to experience this event. He eventually 3 years later experiences it.....but this just proves that Whatever Happened, Happened. Dan always told Charlotte to never come back....just like the LOSTIES always existed in 1977.

It's simple, whatever happened, happened. If I graduated from College 100 years ago, I was always meant to graduate from college 100 years ago, you cannot change that....whatever happened, happened.

Now the LOSTIES did not change anything, because they were always meant to be a part of the 1970s.

 

[Agent0028]

Whatever happened, happened means that what transpired back then already occured as it did. Maybe they did change the past, but because they changed it they don't know they changed it because the changes they made are what made the present what it is.

To use the example of Ben... Ben was shot because Sayid was in 1977, Ben was saved because Kate was in 1977. Because of the way Ben was saved in 1977 he became the person who killed everyone in Dharma and attacked the losties. He left the island to get every back to the island which is why Sayid and Kate were in 1977. Which is why Ben was shot...

It's like a circle. We have no clue what things would be like had any event changed, but we can't see those changes, we can only see the effect the past had on the present, even in cases where the present is what affected the past.

 

[El Skutto]

I disagree. The point I'm trying to make is that the Losties are doing these actions specifically to prevent the future from occuring the way it did, but they seem oblivious to the fact that they're actually helping things along.

When Kate wanted to bring Ben to the Others, she wasn't doing it because she wanted the future to happen, rather, she was hoping that maybe he'd become a better man BECAUSE they saved him. Personally, I would have just let him bleed to death. Bam! Future averted. Her actions seemed incredibly stupid and poorly written. Same goes for Dan deciding to speak to young Charlotte - he KNEW that's what he did, so why then did he decide to do it anyway?

All of this just goes to prove that time travel stories have inherent logic problems. "Whatever happened, happened", works fine for science fiction, but ignores the effects of paradoxes.

I think the movie Butterfly Effect illustrated the causality issue much more clearly. Every time Ashton Kutcher's character tried to prevent his girlfriend's death by travelling back in time, events would always unfold resulting in her dying, despite his actions. That, in essence, would tend to favour the theory presented on Lost. But Ashton's character finally realizes that the ultimate, and simplest solution to the problem is to create a paradox by changing events so that he never meets his girlfriend in the first place.

Plus, if the past can't be re-written, then why is Skynet wasting all this time and energy trying to kill John Connor in the past?

 

[Agent0028]

I see you're point now. You're talking about character motivations and we're talking about the paradox.

 

[Darth Caedus]

I see you're point now. You're talking about character motivations and we're talking about the paradox.

Yep, by trying to change the "past", their present, the losties are inadvertantly creating their "past", everybody else's future. Whatever happened happened, is a direct result of them trying to change what had happened. It's an interesting concept to think about, and LOST has brought it to the screen brilliantly.