LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[Michael Crawford]

Frankly I'm surprised that anybody got anything other than this out of it. You could add that their not mom said that they would be unable to kill each other.

Yep, but they could be killed, which was clear with the not mom wanting them to stay away from the other survivors. Somehow - and I don't need to know how - she made it impossible for them to kill each other.

I love the line about "someday you can make up your own game and everyone will have to go by your rules". Obviously Jacob took this idea of not being able to kill each other and expanded it to his 'game' for the candidates.

 

[Michael Crawford]

I also don't get how they can give pretty clear answers, and people seem to ignore it. How can anyone not think Smokey is still Jacob's brother - at least in terms of whatever it is that makes us who we are outside the physical body? Not Mom says they can't kill each other. Not Mom tells Jacob going into the light won't kill him, but do something even worse. Jacob puts his brother in the light...and people think he killed him. How does one get to that conclusion?

 

[LOTRFan]

... so what makes Jacob's/Smokey's mother evil?

 

[Darth Waller]

... so what makes Jacob's/Smokey's mother evil?

We'll probably never know.

 

[Entropy]

is she evil?
is killing evil people evil?

Jacob has certainly been more tolerant of outsiders tinkering about with the island than his mother ever was and as far as we know he has never directly killed anyone. It's not that he's been passive, he just has more faith in humanity or at least doubt in their inherent wickedness than his mother or brother.

 

[LOTRFan]

is she evil?
is killing evil people evil?

I was referring to their "real" mother.

 

[Maglor]

So scenes we still have left are...

Jacob seeing his brother again now transformed as Smokey.

Jacob (via Hurley?) mutters the incantation and someone accepts the role as the new caretaker.

Widdy, his crew, Ben, Richard, Miles, etc. dying.

And somewhere along the way the realization of the sideways world 815ers, or at least Jack, about their Island lives and some sort of action/choice there. More Ellie there with answers no doubt.


So if smokey leaves the island, now that he got flushed down the magic island toilet and his "life force" or whatever is tied to the Island, the "source" light goes out and thus the light in everything goes out and the world dies. But that's MiB plan because he wants to die and can't now that he's become Smokey and if it means killing the world so that he can be "free" he's ok with that.

@ "magic island toilet."

I also don't get how they can give pretty clear answers, and people seem to ignore it. How can anyone not think Smokey is still Jacob's brother - at least in terms of whatever it is that makes us who we are outside the physical body? Not Mom says they can't kill each other. Not Mom tells Jacob going into the light won't kill him, but do something even worse. Jacob puts his brother in the light...and people think he killed him. How does one get to that conclusion?

Dunno


I guess LOST has made us second guess things for so long people are just in the habit. But this late in the game, when they tall us something like "going into the light won't kill him" I believe it.

 

[Entropy]

I was referring to their "real" mother.

birth mother, eh? I'd argue the caretaker woman was their "real" mother.

Birth mom would raise her children according to the ways of her people, ie: fight, destroy, corrupt. "They" are inherently evil and a threat to the Island, or least that's one viewpoint.


but I ask again, do any of you consider killing evil people to be evil?

 

[pixletwin]

but I ask again, do any of you consider killing evil people to be evil?

It's not evil if it saves a bunch more people.

 

[LOTRFan]

birth mother, eh.

She would raise her children according to the ways of her people, ie: fight, destroy, corrupt. "They" are inherently evil and a threat to the Island.


but I ask again, do any of you consider killing evil people to be evil?

That almost sounds biblical i.e. destroy all the Canaanites, Egyptians; but the episode was far from convincing that they were in fact evil.

I suppose we may just have to take the writer's word for it.

 

[pixletwin]

They may not have been evil... just ignorant. However what they were doing could threaten the entire world. So I guess a person's purpose can be evil even if they aren't.

 

[Darth Waller]

However what they were doing could threaten the entire world. So I guess a person's purpose can be evil even if they aren't.

Kinda like George Lucas.

 

[pixletwin]

 

[Shropt]

Can I please change my login name to "Magic Island Toilet"?

 

[Entropy]

That almost sounds biblical i.e. destroy all the Canaanites, Egyptians; but the episode was far from convincing that they were in fact evil.

I suppose we may just have to take the writer's word for it.

yes. that is Jacob's quandary and a central question the show has repeatedly explored.

What they writers meant to establish was not if the outsiders or mankind in general are definitively evil (this is an ongoing debate that I don't think any tv show could put to rest ) but that the woman and MiB were convinced of their evil and corruption.

 

[Natrix]

- I think it's pretty apparent now that neither Jacob or his brother are 'good' or 'evil'. They both have an agenda, and we are still unclear on which agenda is the one we should be rooting for. Instead, it's pretty clear that they are (as many have said over the last few years) very representative of faith vs science (or fact). So much so in this episode that Jacob was naive to the point of seeming 'slow'. There was also some nice God/Man stuff there, with Jacob clean and neat and Smokey filthy and rough, along with Smokey's comment on how he 'watches down from above but doesn't really know them'.

Not so fast according to this answer by Cuse discussing "The Candidate" episode:

Says Cuse: “There will be very little debate at the end of this episode that [Fake Locke] is evil and bad and has to be stopped. The main narrative reason for him killing our main characters is to establish how much of a bad guy he is and to clearly identify him as the antagonist rolling into the end of the series.”

 

[Michael Crawford]

He may very well be at the end - and I thought he fulfilled the definition of 'evil' much better last week when he killed the Losties, not because he killed them, but because he seemed to ENJOY it. But this week's episode painted him in a very different light. That doesn't mean however that over the course of the final 3.5 hours he's not going to turn out to be a ripe basterd

But you have to be very careful about the ends justifying the means. People you think are 'evil' don't think they are - they feel they are doing a greater good. The one trait they all share is that they feel the ends justify the means, and it rarely does.

 

[The ill Jedi]

I've been staying out of this thread just because I don't want to read anything spoiler-ish, but I have to say seeing Hurley cry was one of the most heart wrenching things I've ever seen on tv. I don't think Jorge Garcia was acting.

Same here, I've been enjoying this season too much to have it muddled up by endless theories and ruined by spoilers.

I have to admit, I did tear up when Hurley cried and no I don't think he was acting.

I'll be buying the complete collection on Blu-ray, btw.

Same here!!

 

[Darth Caedus]

birth mother, eh? I'd argue the caretaker woman was their "real" mother.

Birth mom would raise her children according to the ways of her people, ie: fight, destroy, corrupt. "They" are inherently evil and a threat to the Island, or least that's one viewpoint.


but I ask again, do any of you consider killing evil people to be evil?

This immediately comes to mind

 

[Batty]

Important deleted scene! Why was this left out of the episode?

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