Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Man of Steel

Kids today probably have never seen a Superman movie. If they did, it would've been Returns, where they skipped on the origin. They would probably refuse to watch the Donner films because they aren't gritty and realistic like the Nolan films.

So for all intents and purposes...this is Superman's first film. I don't think kids really like Superman all that much. I hardly see any Superman toys, or anything for them to latch on to, except this movie.

 

[batfan08]

Re: The Man of Steel

This isn't about kids, though. It's about the general moviegoing audience. Our generation saw the cartoons/Lois and Clark/Smallville (the latter applies to younger people, as well), our parents saw the Reeve films, their parents saw the Reeves show, etc., etc. Superman is a cultural icon, and I'd say that roughly 75-80% of movie goers know the story. To quote the first page of Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman: "Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple." That's really what it boils down to, in a nutshell.

 

[Khev]

Re: The Man of Steel

Except that, other than those cheap 70's movies, that was the only Cap movie made, and it never even came out in theaters. Superman, on the other hand, was the star of a series of serials in the 40's, a popular television show in the 50's, four theatrically released films (two of which were good) through the 70's and 80's, a television show throughout the 90's, another television show throughout the 00's, as well as another major motion picture, not to mention the countless animated interpretations and the overall reverence in modern pop culture. Bottom line:Superman has had way more exposure than Cap did.

Right but from what I saw of Nam's post he wasn't lamenting the single fact that MOS didn't have multiple movies of buildup but rather "68 minutes of meh" before the big fight. You can introduce characters and then have a massive "save the world" fight at the end of the origin movie but you better kick freaking *** that first hour of making likable and sympathetic characters (like the first Star Wars or hell even Top Gun.) Without having seen the film yet it sounds like MOS might have failed to do that.

 

[spindrift]

Re: The Man of Steel

Critics seen divided on MOS- like TDKR.....I'm just hoping it is big enough at the box office to get WB to go all out for Justice League toplining Bale and Cavill....

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: The Man of Steel

Yeaaaaah... about that little Justice League thing. I really don't see that happening any more. If it does, it will be the most depressing, and destructive superhero movie ever made.

MAN OF STEEL will definitely make bank opening weekend due to the advertising machine, but I don't see it getting amazing, longterm word of mouth.

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Man of Steel

This isn't about kids, though. It's about the general moviegoing audience. Our generation saw the cartoons/Lois and Clark/Smallville (the latter applies to younger people, as well), our parents saw the Reeve films, their parents saw the Reeves show, etc., etc. Superman is a cultural icon, and I'd say that roughly 75-80% of movie goers know the story. To quote the first page of Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman: "Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple." That's really what it boils down to, in a nutshell.

If the kids weren't a factor, this movie wouldn't have an origin story.

 

[Khev]

Re: The Man of Steel

If the kids weren't a factor, this movie wouldn't have an origin story.

I'm not following your logic on that one.

 

[batfan08]

Re: The Man of Steel

Right but from what I saw of Nam's post he wasn't lamenting the single fact that MOS didn't have multiple movies of buildup but rather "68 minutes of meh" before the big fight. You can introduce characters and then have a massive "save the world" fight at the end of the origin movie but you better kick freaking *** that first hour of making likable and sympathetic characters (like the first Star Wars or hell even Top Gun.) Without having seen the film yet it sounds like MOS might have failed to do that.

That's just it, though. What are we basing this on? The opinions of 21 out of 63 people? I'm not going to bull**** you and say that critics suck, because you've been around long enough to know that I've been the opposite when it comes to backing up my points, but, when I'm set on seeing something, I'm going to see it, and make up my own mind. I mentioned before that, in general, movies like this wind up with well over 150 critic reviews, of which we've only seen a little over 60, and over 40 of which have been positive.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Man of Steel

Yeah, I get that, but my point is that, even though this is a reboot, it's not like people haven't seen a Superman film before. They have, and I've heard countless times that they want to see Superman hit somebody. Yet, now, they complain that he shouldn't, and that they need to decide what kind of movie it should be.

You're the only one here not getting the clear message. Sure everybody wants to see Superman hit somebody. They just expect to see some solid story between punches, especially given this is his origin flick. You seem to be taking the hyperbolic approach that if we expect a good story, suddenly we don't want to see action. Avengers worked because those specific representations of the characters were already pre-established on film. So the story between punches had been laid out since 2008, with RDJ's Iron Man. This Superman does not have that luxury. This is his first appearance anywhere. Trying to shoehorn Reeves', Reeve's and Routh's Supermen into your argument is not only silly, but entirely irrelevant to the point.

 

[batfan08]

Re: The Man of Steel

Yeaaaaah... about that little Justice League thing. I really don't see that happening any more. If it does, it will be the most depressing, and destructive superhero movie ever made.

MAN OF STEEL will definitely make bank opening weekend due to the advertising machine, but I don't see it getting amazing, longterm word of mouth.

Did you see it? It sounds like you took a few downers if you didn't.

 

[Khev]

Re: The Man of Steel

That's just it, though. What are we basing this on? The opinions of 21 out of 63 people? I'm not going to bull**** you and say that critics suck, because you've been around long enough to know that I've been the opposite when it comes to backing up my points, but, when I'm set on seeing something, I'm going to see it, and make up my own mind. I mentioned before that, in general, movies like this wind up with well over 150 critic reviews, of which we've only seen a little over 60, and over 40 of which have been positive.

Oh I was just going off of tomandshell's assessment, which was positive overall. I assume I'll be entertained when I see it.

 

[spindrift]

Re: The Man of Steel

WB and DC better really be on the ball here..if MOS doesn't do great at the box office they might as well fold it up and sell to Disney....
If MOS is a box office letdown look for a fast-tracked Batman film coming and a lighter tone, totally new cast Justice League movie

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Man of Steel

Now I want to re-watch the first two Donner flicks again after reading this back and fourth.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Man of Steel

If the kids weren't a factor, this movie wouldn't have an origin story.

I'm not following your logic on that one.

Agree with Khev.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Man of Steel

Now I want to re-watch the first two Donner flicks again after reading this back and fourth.

Pure masterpieces, old effects and all.

 

[batfan08]

Re: The Man of Steel

You're the only one here not getting the clear message. Sure everybody wants to see Superman hit somebody. They just expect to see some solid story between punches, especially given this is his origin flick. You seem to be taking the hyperbolic approach that if we expect a good story, suddenly we don't want to see action. Avengers worked because those specific representations of the characters were already pre-established on film. So the story between punches had been laid out since 2008, with RDJ's Iron Man. This Superman does not have that luxury. This is his first appearance anywhere. Trying to shoehorn Reeves, Reeve and Routh into your argument is not only silly, but entirely irrelevant to the point.

That's not always possible, though. Would you rather that this movie was a two and a half hour origin tale that took place on Krypton and Kent farm and ended with Zod arriving on Earth, only to be followed up by a sequel that was two and a half hours of those two beating the ever living **** out of each other? I just wonder where did you got the "63 minutes of 'meh'" thing, though? From a third of the 63 people who saw it? I've brought up the past entries because I wonder if, perhaps, that isn't having a bearing on why these people think of the first half of the film this way.

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Man of Steel

Agree with Khev.

Kids are the ones who see the most movies.

Kids and teenagers. Almost every summer blockbuster needs to market and be made for them.

So, instead of saying "Yeah, everyone knows the story" they just re do it.

I'm sure it wasn't a big factor...but it was a factor. Gotta explains to the kidds!

 

[Khev]

Re: The Man of Steel

That's not always possible, though. Would you rather that this movie was a two and a half hour origin tale that took place on Krypton and Kent farm and ended with Zod arriving on Earth, only to be followed up by a sequel that was two and a half hours of those two beating the ever living **** out of each other? I just wonder where did you got the "63 minutes of 'meh'" thing, though? From a third of the 63 people who saw it? I've brought up the past entries because I wonder if, perhaps, that isn't having a bearing on why these people think of the first half of the film this way.

Batman Begins did a fine job of building up a new Bruce Wayne's origin before all out chaos at the end of the same film.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: The Man of Steel

Did you see it? It sounds like you took a few downers if you didn't.

Saw it last night with an open mind. Let's just say I had a funner time seeing WATCHMEN (which I loved.) MOS has the tone of a Nolan Batman (without the heart or quality storytelling,) and an added helping of full-retard video game violence. Just a very gray film (literally. I thought I was going colorblind) and tonally, filled with apocalyptic imagery.
After the screening, I only heard people say "It was alright..." or "Yeah, I really liked it" without any strong conviction. Not quite the thoroughly positive vibe I got from audiences after THE DARK KNIGHT or AVENGERS.
There are definitely cool moments, but the feeling I got was that WB really dropped the ball this time.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: The Man of Steel

I watched Superman The Movie again, earlier today. It's a beautiful film, classic, epic, moving, it does things simply, but beautifully. And it's fun as well. Does it matter that the FX are in camera or blue screen? Not one bit. It's timeless. It remains the best superhero movie ever made.