Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[jye4ever]

The best is Salkind who is nuts calling Brando nuts.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

I disagree, for me the tornado was more powerful, not cause of the CGI, but cause you could see the Clark's struggle for not being able to act.

But overall Costner Pa is way more heartwarming and fatherly than Ford's IMO.

That scene was so horribly blocked and frustrating to watch, from a filmmaking perspective. Clark could have just as easily sprinted over there, without revealing any special powers, and gotten his dad out. Instead with have Kevin standing there, sticking his hand out for 20 seconds before the CGI twister whisks him to Oz.

If a car flew on Pa, killing him instantly, then it would have been more shocking, leaving Clark helpless. The heart attack works MUCH better for me since there really ISN'T anything Clark could do. "All those powers and I couldn't even save him." Less=More, but what do I know?

 

[CelticPredator]

That's because it's not fake, it does correlate because the mass death isn't Supe's responsibility in MoS, that hour of uplifting speeches and lectures leads to Supes' both motivation and doubt for saving manking.

It's has certainly more heart and correlation than the scene where Lois dies in S1 where despite Jor-El's insistence to not interfere with human history ala "Lion King", contradicts the scene that follows, removing the little empathy I felt when Supes found Lois dead, without mentioning the fact that he cried more for Lois than for his own father.

Like I said, nostalgia armor.

You think there is heart. But there really isn't. The reason why is, everything during the first 2 halvs of the film are completely ignored for action. There was no pay off, like i've said, there was no emotional core during those scenes. It was punching, and people dying. That doesn't create drama.

 

[CelticPredator]

That scene was so horribly blocked and frustrating to watch, from a filmmaking perspective. Clark could have just as easily sprinted over there, without revealing any special powers, and gotten his dad out. Instead with have Kevin standing there, sticking his hand out for 20 seconds before the CGI twister whisks him to Oz.

If a car flew on Pa, killing him instantly, then it would have been more shocking, leaving Clark helpless. The heart attack works MUCH better for me since there really ISN'T anything Clark could do. "All those powers and I couldn't even save him." Less=More, but what do I know?

You know a lot more then most. Because you're right.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

You think there is heart. But there really isn't. The reason why is, everything during the first 2 halvs of the film are completely ignored for action. There was no pay off, like i've said, there was no emotional core during those scenes. It was punching, and people dying. That doesn't create drama.

Let me buy this guy a drink.

 

[CelticPredator]

Not if I buy one for you first!

 

[jye4ever]

That scene was so horribly blocked and frustrating to watch, from a filmmaking perspective. Clark could have just as easily sprinted over there, without revealing any special powers, and gotten his dad out. Instead with have Kevin standing there, sticking his hand out for 20 seconds before the CGI twister whisks him to Oz.

If a car flew on Pa, killing him instantly, then it would have been more shocking, leaving Clark helpless. The heart attack works MUCH better for me since there really ISN'T anything Clark could do. "All those powers and I couldn't even save him." Less=More, but what do I know?

I will add it to my collection for the special effects.

But that's the reason why i'll buy it, i'm not going to pretend that its for any other reason other than Superman flying and fighting looked cool.

 

[CelticPredator]

You don't have to defend why you like it Jye.

I just have a problem with this "Imma **** on the older stuff to justify the newer stuff" trend of late.

TDK = Burton Movies Blow.
ASM = Raimi movies Blow
MOS = Superman movies blow.

No respect for the classics any more. Even if you don't enjoy them as much....doesn't mean they deserve to be shat on.
(all are 3 worded films too....hmm).

 

[jye4ever]

I certainly don't watch Superman 1/2 for the effects.

So something else is present that keeps bringing me back to them.

 

[DiFabio]

Moar words, better movies.

 

[GasparZizou]

You think there is heart. But there really isn't. The reason why is, everything during the first 2 halvs of the film are completely ignored for action. There was no pay off, like i've said, there was no emotional core during those scenes. It was punching, and people dying. That doesn't create drama.

You keep saying "you think there's heart, but there isn't" without actually giving reasons why, I don't "think" there is heart, I know it cause I can see it and feel it, you only give your opinion, and you opinion chooses to ignore the obvious heart that this movie has, I told you that the 1st part of the movie, all of it leads to the action that follows, there's no denying that.

And you're right, that doesn't create drama, in the CGI fights there's no drama, but there is either before the fights or after the fights.

That scene was so horribly blocked and frustrating to watch, from a filmmaking perspective. Clark could have just as easily sprinted over there, without revealing any special powers, and gotten his dad out. Instead with have Kevin standing there, sticking his hand out for 20 seconds before the CGI twister whisks him to Oz.

If a car flew on Pa, killing him instantly, then it would have been more shocking, leaving Clark helpless. The heart attack works MUCH better for me since there really ISN'T anything Clark could do. "All those powers and I couldn't even save him." Less=More, but what do I know?

You are right, I've always had a problem with this scene, it could have been executed much better, but I find the concept of Clark unable to act in order to trust his father much more powerful than the heart attack, but in fact I chose the heart attack scene over the tornado due to the execution.

 

[YoNoSe]

You think there is heart. But there really isn't. The reason why is, everything during the first 2 halvs of the film are completely ignored for action. There was no pay off, like i've said, there was no emotional core during those scenes. It was punching, and people dying. That doesn't create drama.

That's the problem with so many modern movies. No one can crack the third half.

 

[CelticPredator]

Because there is. There's themes that still resonate. Those films work because they were made in a time where things weren't so cynical.

 

[GasparZizou]

I actually don't bash the classics just for the sake of it, I do it for the sake of comparison, it's clear at this point that the classics are more idealized than what they actually are, at least Superman 1&2.

And I don't even mention the FX, I like both practical and cgi, I like the old school better in most cases, I didn't watch MoS 3 times for the CGI either, I did it cause it's a better movie, period.

Plus, why are the classics not to be bashed in a constructive way? Why bash the new ones and not the old ones? Nostalgia armor.

 

[jye4ever]

Because there is. There's themes that still resonate. Those films work because they were made in a time where things weren't so cynical.

But TDK works so well even with all the cynicism.

Avengers is fun in the sun, it could almost be a 60s Annette Funicello beach movie its so damn groovy.

 

[CelticPredator]

You keep saying "you think there's heart, but there isn't" without actually giving reasons why, I don't "think" there is heart, I know it cause I can see it and feel it, you only give your opinion, and you opinion chooses to ignore the obvious heart that this movie has, I told you that the 1st part of the movie, all of it leads to the action that follows, there's no denying that.

And you're right, that doesn't create drama, in the CGI fights there's no drama, but there is either before the fights or after the fights.



You are right, I've always had a problem with this scene, it could have been executed much better, but I find the concept of Clark unable to act in order to trust his father much more powerful than the heart attack, but in fact I chose the heart attack scene over the tornado due to the execution.

I can't explain it because there's nothing to explain. The scenes felt forced, and not real. I can compare it to Super 8. A film I do like. But I am aware that the film isn't showing me real genuine human emotions. It's showing me a forced, manipulated emotional core. It pulls on your heart strings because it was manufactured that way. It's not something that you feel occurs naturally on screen.

Shawshank Redemption, Everything plays out naturally, and you understand the two main characters, and what they mean to each other by the end. The end makes you feel something because there's something there. Something real that resonates with you personally.

Man of Steel doesn't let you have any of that. It shows you things, and manipulates you into thinking what you're feeling is real. But it really isn't.

Super 8 does tug on my heart strings a bit. But there's nothing that resonates with me afterward. Fun movie. But all fake.

 

[CelticPredator]

But TDK works so well even with all the cynicism.

Avengers is fun in the sun, it could almost be a 60s Annette Funicello beach movie its so damn groovy.

TDK works because it's still a character story at it's core. But you shouldn't make a Superman movie like that.

 

[GasparZizou]

I can't explain it because there's nothing to explain. The scenes felt forced, and not real. I can compare it to Super 8. A film I do like. But I am aware that the film isn't showing me real genuine human emotions. It's showing me a forced, manipulated emotional core. It pulls on your heart strings because it was manufactured that way. It's not something that you feel occurs naturally on screen.

Shawshank Redemption, Everything plays out naturally, and you understand the two main characters, and what they mean to each other by the end. The end makes you feel something because there's something there. Something real that resonates with you personally.

Man of Steel doesn't let you have any of that. It shows you things, and manipulates you into thinking what you're feeling is real. But it really isn't.

Super 8 does tug on my heart strings a bit. But there's nothing that resonates with me afterward. Fun movie. But all fake.

I completely disagree, you're just choosing to ignore the obvious emotions that MoS delivers, and that's fine, just don't tell me that the movie "tricks me".

Even the Lois&Supes romance feels more natural in MoS after watching S1, and in MoS was very forced, in fact, almost everything feels more natural in MoS after watching S1 IMO.

 

[jye4ever]

I can't believe he fell for Amy Adams as fast as he did.

Forced relationship.

In Superman 1, she was as much his antagonist as Lex was.

They earned that relationship.

With MOS, she didn't tell his story, boom, they love each other, wut.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Crowe's Jor-el the badass was a lot better than Brando's Shakespearean Jor-El. Brando was mailing it in for the payday, and it showed. I didn't much like Donner's Krypton in general ... it didn't look like a planet where a race of people actually lived.

Crowe > Stamp/Sands > Brando

I'd take John Schneider's Jonathan Kent over either Costner or Ford. I thought Costner was better casting than Ford ... he was a better age ... Pa Kent rather than Grandpa Kent. And, his demeanor seemed better for the role. Still, Ford's death was better ... Costner's felt a bit hollow and pointless to me. And, Costner had the weird scene where he suggested that Clark let a schoolbus full of kids drown ... which is very un-Jonathan-Kent-like. Jonathan is supposed to be a moral compass for Clark, not the other way around. Have to mark him down for that scene alone.

Schneider > Ford > Costner

Zod ... I'd take Shannon's Zod over Stamp's. First, the motivation made more sense. Stamp's Zod wanted to kill Kal-El because his father sent him to prison? So he was going to enslave Earth? Shannon's motivation made more sense ... trying to recreate Krypton on Earth. He did what an amoral general might do to save his race ... and didn't really lose control of himself until the very end. Only downside ... they needed to fit the line "Kneel Before Zod" in there somewhere. He was also more General-like ... rather than just a crazy version of Superman.

Shannon > Stamp > Rosenbaum/Blue

I liked Amy Adams a Lois Lane quite a bit. She was feisty, but not obnoxious. Kidder's Lois was obnoxious from beginning-to-end ... which begged the question of why Superman would fall for a girl that was such a twit to him when he was just Clark. Still, Adams isn't quite as good as Durance ... yet. Bosworth was an embarrassment.

Durance > Adams >>>> Kidder >>>> Bosworth

I'm interested to see what they do with Lex Luthor. Rosenbaum was great. Spacey was good. Hackman was miscast ... Superman vs. a used car salesman ain't that intriguing. So far ... Rosenbaum > Spacey >>> Hackman.

I'd need to see the movie again to rank Cavill right. I think he's about even with Reeve at the moment. I liked his Clark Kent better than Reeve's ... and his backstory was better than Reeve. He played the part well, and added a bit of depth to a part that can be a bit shallow.

Clark Kent ...
Cavill > Welling > Reeve > Routh

Superman ...
Cavill = Reeve > Routh > Welling

SnakeDoc