Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[abake]

So then you're saying Pa Kent was retarded. A calculated risk would be running after the dog before touchdown, when the cone is visible a mile out. Running after the mutt when the tornado's not only tearing up dirt, but headed that way is just plain dumber than ****.

Once again, there's no practical scenario where his decision makes sense. None. If you justify it, then you're either saying the man cared more about the mutt than his wife and son, or you're arguing that he likely had an IQ well below 70 and was incapable of determining what was more important, his human family or the dog.

False premise. You are willfully ignoring the fact that we are discussing a movie wherein one can expect hyperbole to be used for effect, namely, the proximity of the tornado. How often have we seen situations in movies being exaggerated to create a more dramatic effect? It's like saying that jumping on the nose of a fighter jet is ridiculous within the movies logic (don't even remember what movie it was, Die Hard 4?), when it clearly isn't. It is the intent of the movie to portray the character as overly heroic in both instances.
There are probably many other examples, but this one came to mind.

I didn't like the scene for a different reason, but he clearly cared about his family, at that point his family was safe, if the dog was lost he wouldn't have gone to get him, but he went in only to open the door and set him free, then he got his ankle crushed, that's something he didn't anticipate, so, neither retard or didn't care for his family, only unfortunate.

Still think they should've let him live.

Agreed, but I think Pa Kent's sacrifice was another lesson. That there are things worth dying for and that you can't save everyone.

 

[abake]

I'm going with option C) he was a suicidal maniac.

 

[Kamandi]

 

[thenammagazine]

Agreed, but I think Pa Kent's sacrifice was another lesson. That there are things worth dying for and that you can't save everyone.

He chose the stupid dog over his son and wife. Start there.

The apologists are in full swing again.

 

[GasparZizou]

The apologists are in full swing again.

No one is being apologetic, we're simply explaining, justifying.

Justifying is not the same as excusing, you want apologetic? Try and justify amnesia kisses, not bashing the Donner movies, it's just an example.

 

[CelticPredator]

That was a goofy add on by a new director. So I don't think that's worth justifying because it wasn't the director's vision.

 

[GasparZizou]

That was a goofy add on by a new director. So I don't think that's worth justifying because it wasn't the director's vision.

See? Apologetic

 

[CelticPredator]

That wasn't the directors vision. Killing Pa Kent was Snyder's vision.

 

[GasparZizou]

We're not discussing the merits of the director, I've said before that MoS could have done without that scene, the kiss scene or the last satellite scene imo.

The point here is trying to reduce those who explain MoS as "apologetic" when most things are easily explained, with straightforward justifications, and in fact, the complains are easily more convoluted.

So the examples of the Donner movies like the amnesia kisses, cellophane S batarangs, etc etc are usually being excused as "goofy add-ons from a more forgiving time" without actually justifying them, it was an attempt to show what apologetic looks like.

 

[thenammagazine]

I don't think anybody's describing the film as apologetic, just the fanboys who're perpetrating that particular scene as "good writing" and making 9,000+ excuses as to why that scene was "brilliant."

 

[The Josh]

I liked the pa kent scene and found it to have a strong emotional impact.

 

[thenammagazine]

I liked the pa kent scene and found it to have a strong emotional impact.

Says it all, really.

 

[Kamandi]

@Gaspar - Super-forget-me kisses and giant plastic S are Richard Lester inventions, and Lester sucks.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

@Gaspar - Super-forget-me kisses and giant plastic S are Richard Lester inventions, and Lester sucks.

The amnesia kiss beats flying around the earth, backwards, twice.

 

[GasparZizou]

I don't think anybody's describing the film as apologetic, just the fanboys who're perpetrating that particular scene as "good writing" and making 9,000+ excuses as to why that scene was "brilliant."

Oh yeah no, I can't describe that particular scene as brilliant, at all

It could have been a lesson for Clark, but it had too many problems in eyes.

 

[Kamandi]

The amnesia kiss beats flying around the earth, backwards, twice.

Puzo scripted that as the end of pt 2. The Salkinds preasured Donner to move it into Pt. 1. Donner was fired and Puzo did not return to write a new ending to 2. When Donner did a his 'restoration' he also re-cut the end of STM to what it was supposed to be originally.

The ending of pt2 was Ursa killed Lois and Superman turned back time to save her. Lois was not originally scripted to die in pt.1, but again the Salkinds made Donner change things.

 

[The Josh]

Says it all, really.

It says I liked the scene and don't give a damn if you do.

 

[jedijim3002]

Love these discussions by the way. Everyone has their own opinion. Name calling is the truest form of debate.

Pa Kent's death in STM was dumb too. A guy who works an entire farm to support his family with no help jogs 40 ft and has a heart attack? No sense whatsoever. If the guy was that fragile there's no way he could take care of the whole farm by himself. He may have been a bit older but a guy who works on a farm everyday especially in 1967 when there weren't a whole lot of mechanized plowing, seeding, and harvesting equipment would have been in decent health. He had a tractor but that thing can't load up the truck and take the crop to market. Clark was at school all day he wasn't going to be much help during school hours. After his death there was a scene where a guy was going to help out on the farm while Clark was gone.

I think it was much more powerful to show that Clark got his sense of heroism from his earth father. A man who would risk his own life to help out a woman who's baby was trapped in the car and then go back for the dog. I'm not sure how you guys feel about your pets but most people think of them as part of the family. That would be the equivalent of leaving a baby in the car. I'm not that crazy but some people are. It seemed like there was enough time to get the dog but there's a lot of what ifs. We can look at them in hindsight because we already know the outcome of this one. And logically anyone would choose life over death of course if they can see the future. But what if the dog came right away after Johnathan opened the car door? What if the tornado changed course? Or slowed down? Or sped up? Or dissipated? We will never know the answers to these questions because that's not what happened in the movie.

This scene was meant to show Pa's death. And as stupid as some people say it was to choose a dog over his life, his family, or his sons secret it was still a heroic death. Meaningful and a good plot device. He had to die. It's part of who superman is to grow up without his father. Better it be trying to do something brave than just standing there doing nothing as some here I'm sure would do. You guys have no heart man. Can't you just see it for what it was? A scene that is meant to haunt Clark for the rest of his days. A huge part of who he is and why he feels he has to try and save people no matter the personal cost. That's what a hero does. Acts in the face of danger. Braves where no one else will.

What about police? Firemen? Soldiers? They risk so much everyday for those in need. No matter who or what needs saving. Because its the right thing to do. Inaction may be a smarter safer path for some but not for a hero. Go peddle your "well I wouldn't do that cause it would get me killed bull sh it somewhere else!

 

[thenammagazine]

Oh yeah no, I can't describe that particular scene as brilliant, at all

It could have been a lesson for Clark, but it had too many problems in eyes.

Then we're not talking about you.

 

[GasparZizou]

Great words Jedijim!

My problem with the tornado scene though, radicates in the fact that is really hard to not imagine all the ways Clark could have gone to save his father from the tornado.

The 1st one I thought of was going unnoticedly to the back of the crowd behind the overpass and run to save his dad, put him on a safe spot, and return unnoticedly to the crowd.

The message was clear for me, but IDK, it could have been handled better.