Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[GasparZizou]

Then we're not talking about you.

You did quite make a general statement, so, triple mooning.

 

[thenammagazine]

You did quite make a general statement, so, triple mooning.

It was a general statement based on the current topic. Though for this topic, you agree with us. Reading a page or so back would've enlightened ya.

 

[GasparZizou]

It was a general statement based on the current topic. Though for this topic, you agree with us. Reading a page or so back would've enlightened ya.

I did, I was aware of the topic, all my posts stand.

I agreed that the scene wasn't brilliant, but I never agreed that justifying it was in any way apologetic.

Triple nana

 

[ironwez20]

Lol nam you are posting so frequently now. You stopped for awhile.

 

[thenammagazine]

Lol nam you are posting so frequently now. You stopped for awhile.

[ame]https://youtu.be/MWtUVDG5M1w[/ame]

 

[ironwez20]

https://youtu.be/MWtUVDG5M1w

Well we had our bouts but your still funny man lol.

 

[The Josh]

Lol nam you are posting so frequently now. You stopped for awhile.

Don't encourage him.

 

[thenammagazine]

Don't encourage him.

 

[The Josh]

 

[Fia2k9]

Love these discussions by the way. Everyone has their own opinion. Name calling is the truest form of debate.

Pa Kent's death in STM was dumb too. A guy who works an entire farm to support his family with no help jogs 40 ft and has a heart attack? No sense whatsoever. If the guy was that fragile there's no way he could take care of the whole farm by himself. He may have been a bit older but a guy who works on a farm everyday especially in 1967 when there weren't a whole lot of mechanized plowing, seeding, and harvesting equipment would have been in decent health. He had a tractor but that thing can't load up the truck and take the crop to market. Clark was at school all day he wasn't going to be much help during school hours. After his death there was a scene where a guy was going to help out on the farm while Clark was gone.

I think it was much more powerful to show that Clark got his sense of heroism from his earth father. A man who would risk his own life to help out a woman who's baby was trapped in the car and then go back for the dog. I'm not sure how you guys feel about your pets but most people think of them as part of the family. That would be the equivalent of leaving a baby in the car. I'm not that crazy but some people are. It seemed like there was enough time to get the dog but there's a lot of what ifs. We can look at them in hindsight because we already know the outcome of this one. And logically anyone would choose life over death of course if they can see the future. But what if the dog came right away after Johnathan opened the car door? What if the tornado changed course? Or slowed down? Or sped up? Or dissipated? We will never know the answers to these questions because that's not what happened in the movie.

This scene was meant to show Pa's death. And as stupid as some people say it was to choose a dog over his life, his family, or his sons secret it was still a heroic death. Meaningful and a good plot device. He had to die. It's part of who superman is to grow up without his father. Better it be trying to do something brave than just standing there doing nothing as some here I'm sure would do. You guys have no heart man. Can't you just see it for what it was? A scene that is meant to haunt Clark for the rest of his days. A huge part of who he is and why he feels he has to try and save people no matter the personal cost. That's what a hero does. Acts in the face of danger. Braves where no one else will.

What about police? Firemen? Soldiers? They risk so much everyday for those in need. No matter who or what needs saving. Because its the right thing to do. Inaction may be a smarter safer path for some but not for a hero. Go peddle your "well I wouldn't do that cause it would get me killed bull sh it somewhere else!

So let me get this straight: Pa Kent's death in STM was dumb because he died despite the fact that he had a bad heart which was established in the scene where Jonathan and Martha find Clark , and Pa Kent's death in MOS was brilliant because he emotionally scared his super powered son by sacrificing himself for no logical reason other than the fact that people might notice his super powered son saving the dog at super speed, instead of being distracted by the giant twister heading right for them.

The STM scene works better because Clark learns that some things are beyond his control no matter how many powers he had.

No one is disputing saving the dog, but when everyone else is busy ducking from a tornado, I don't think anyone is really going to notice if Clark saves the dog at super speed, which by that point in the movie he was most surely capable of.


It was just bad writing, plain and simple.

 

[jye4ever]

There's a crowd of strangers under a bridge and a massive f---ing tornado bearing down on them.

If he had run, even at super-speed, and rescued Pa - nobody would've cared.

Somebody is either thinking "OMFG I HOPE I DON'T DIE!!!" or "Gosh, he's fast. He should try out for track."

Clark could have danced in a pink tutu and nobody would've noticed.

So then you're saying Pa Kent was retarded. A calculated risk would be running after the dog before touchdown, when the cone is visible a mile out. Running after the mutt when the tornado's not only tearing up dirt, but headed that way is just plain dumber than ****.

Once again, there's no practical scenario where his decision makes sense. None. If you justify it, then you're either saying the man cared more about the mutt than his wife and son, or you're arguing that he likely had an IQ well below 70 and was incapable of determining what was more important, his human family or the dog.

I'm going with option C) he was a suicidal maniac.

Says it all, really.

 

[jedijim3002]

So let me get this straight: Pa Kent's death in STM was dumb because he died despite the fact that he had a bad heart which was established in the scene where Jonathan and Martha find Clark , and Pa Kent's death in MOS was brilliant because he emotionally scared his super powered son by sacrificing himself for no logical reason other than the fact that people might notice his super powered son saving the dog at super speed, instead of being distracted by the giant twister heading right for them.

The STM scene works better because Clark learns that some things are beyond his control no matter how many powers he had.

No one is disputing saving the dog, but when everyone else is busy ducking from a tornado, I don't think anyone is really going to notice if Clark saves the dog at super speed, which by that point in the movie he was most surely capable of.


It was just bad writing, plain and simple.

Yes. You are correct. They did foreshadow his stupid death very well toward the beginning. Not sure if you know this but heart disease is most commonly caused by poor diet and no exercise. Living on a farm and growing your own crops would alleviate both of those issues so just saying pa kent has a bad heart and we are supposed to assume he does despite the fact that he has been taking care of AN ENTIRE FARM for well over the 14 years they had Clark is quite a stretch. I'm assuming that he looked about 4 when he arrived. Just because it was foreshadowed doesn't make it more believable.

I never said the scene in MOS was brilliant. I only stated that it was a more heroic death and a better plot device because he loses his father doing something heroic by going back for the baby and the dog. Making him realize what heroes are supposed to do. Not turn back time to save your girlfriend which by the way is literally impossible and would have resulted in even more cataclysmic earthquakes tidal waves tsunamis tornados and all sorts of earth shattering weather and way more deaths than MOS chalked up. We just assume he is able to do that based on his superior training he got from Jor-el in the fortress so we think he knows what he's doing even though its forbidden.

I do agree with you about "the things beyond his control" result of the scene but it still makes no sense that a man who works harder all day long would have a heart attack by jogging 40 ft.

Yes he could have saved the dog and probably without super speed but that's not what that scene was about. It was about his father sending Clark back to the overpass to protect those people in case something happened while his Dad died saving the day. If the tornado didn't blow a car onto his ankle crushing it he would have made it but that's irrelevant because of the result. He was supposed to die and cause Clark to become the hero he was meant to be.

I like the Donner films. Don't get me wrong. But what I'm saying is there are reasons we can all come up with to justify or crucify these movies.

Don't even get me started on Otis for Gods sake. "Coming Mista Loutor! Coming Mista Loutor!!!" What a joke. Hated Otis in those movies. Yeah I get that he's supposed to be comic relief and all but he just annoys me. Again that was the role. Ned Batey is a great actor but when you give him a role that mirrors his role in the Toy there is only so much he can do.

 

[Rorywan]

Glad to see you back you old ****er.

 

[Zen Mutiny]

Interview with David Goyer

Screenwriter David Goyer discusses the controversial decision to have Superman kill General Zod at the end of Man of Steel, and in the process he hints at how Superman’s choice will reverberate through the sequel:

"We were pretty sure that was going to be controversial," Goyer said. "It's not like we were deluding ourselves, and we weren't just doing it to be cool. We felt, in the case of Zod, we wanted to put the character in an impossible situation and make an impossible choice. This is one area, and I've written comic books as well and this is where I disagree with some of my fellow comic book writers - 'Superman doesn't kill'. It's a rule that exists outside of the narrative and I just don't believe in rules like that. I believe when you're writing film or television, you can't rely on a crutch or rule that exists outside of the narrative of the film.

“So the situation was, Zod says 'I'm not going to stop until you kill me or I kill you.' The reality is no prison on the planet could hold him and in our film Superman can't fly to the moon, and we didn't want to come up with that crutch. Also our movie was in a way Superman Begins, he's not really Superman until the end of the film. We wanted him to have had that experience of having taken a life and carry that through onto the next films. Because he's Superman and because people idolize him he will have to hold himself to a higher standard.”

Gotta say, I agree with Goyer 100% on this.

 

[jedijim3002]

Yup. It's a decision that will haunt him forever. Good to know it will be used in the sequels and he won't just be shrugging it off like it never happened.

 

[Fia2k9]

Yup. It's a decision that will haunt him forever. Good to know it will be used in the sequels and he won't just be shrugging it off like it never happened.

Like it haunted him at the end of the movie when he's all smiles throwing on a pair of glasses and working at the Planet. Really gotta Idolize That Man of Steel.

Also....He had a bad Heart! There are heart conditions that even Athletes drop dead of.

And the way you just rambled on about Otis? dude WTF??? all I did was comment about one specific plot point and you spit out a laundry list of things you don't like about STM

 

[jedijim3002]

Like it haunted him at the end of the movie when he's all smiles throwing on a pair of glasses and working at the Planet. Really gotta Idolize That Man of Steel.

Also....He had a bad Heart! There are heart conditions that even Athletes drop dead of.

And the way you just rambled on about Otis? dude WTF??? all I did was comment about one specific plot point and you spit out a laundry list of things you don't like about STM

What's wrong with that? I wasn't attacking you or anything. Just stating my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.

 

[The Iron Koob]

Personally, I think they handled the re-imagining of Pa Kent's death way better than Uncle Ben's death in the reboot. Talk about cheesy. I get it. Pa Kent was trying to protect Clark for as long as possible and he was willing to sacrifice himself for that. The fact that it all gets unraveled during the film kind of undermines that because we didn't get to see all those years in between but really what is there to complain about?

 

[jedijim3002]

Yup. Exactly.

 

[CelticPredator]

Both death scenes missed the point of what they were trying to do. And or, they didn't really understand what they were trying to do, hence why neither makes any sense.