Many are embarassing themselves over TSA pat-downs

[BadMoon]

oh nothing really, just the usual stuff going on in here. One side is saying it's ok to penetrate someone if it makes flying safer and the other side saying that there a nanites in our cereal, or some such stuff.

Well considering what they charge to fly a damn bag I better get some damn penetration. Maybe even a thank you sir and a reach around.

 

[Voorhees27]

oh nothing really, just the usual stuff going on in here. One side is saying it's ok to penetrate someone if it makes flying safer and the other side saying that there a nanites in our cereal, or some such stuff.

They recently put up a pic of me going through a scanner. It was a small conversation. I of course was horrified and left for a bit.

Ah. Much obliged ...................... I think.

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

a reach around is asking too much....you know better.

 

[BadMoon]

a reach around is asking too much....you know better.

Yeah I know. Customer service has gone "up" the crapper.

 

[Starkiller]

It's a bit ridiculous that 9/11 drove us to this. 8 year old boys and old women being patted down...give me a break. If only we used common sense instead of fear and panic.

 

[Deckard]

I like it, I goto the airport now just for the patdowns. It turns me on.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

The boy was undressed in public by his father who did it because he thought it would speed up the process. Unless his father also works for TSA, I don't see how it is "because" of TSA.

You don't? Whose process was he trying to speed up? Do you figure he'd have undressed the boy if more customary screening practices were being used and he could've, say, walked through a metal detector fully clothed? He was quickly trying to comply with excessive screening.

SnakeDoc

 

[Darth Cruel]

First, the video was shot by some random schmuck in line ... not the government. We don't have control over what people do with their cell phone cameras ... we supposedly do have a say in what our government does on our behalf.

Second, if people are angry about excessive governmental searches at airports, why should they be equally angry about a cellphone video proving their point? What you have then is a system where people complaining about privacy violations cannot give evidence of those invasions without falling prey to the "well you're not complaining about the video of the government rectal exam as much as you're complaining about the government rectal exam itself ... hypocrite!"

Third ... the boy was undressed in public because of the TSA. The video just shows what was already happening. There is no policy to complain about with regard to the cellphone camera ... it is not policy for every individual to be taped with a cellphone camera while being screened. It is policy for everyone to be searched by the TSA. While the former may be objectionable, it was not sanctioned by anyone other than the guy with the cellphone. These are not equivalent offenses ... and the fact that any perv with a cellphone camera can now video kids being undressed and women being felt-up proves the point to an even greater degree.

SnakeDoc

I realize that as a lawyer, you are trained in doublespeak. Fortunately, it really is not that difficult to see through. Your points may be relevant to your own point of view, but after all the whitewash is cleaned away, they become irrelevant. If the issue is truly with privacy, the videographer is intruding every bit as much as the TSA. If the issue is with the TSA...then it should be stated that way and it should not be masked as an issue of privacy.

 

[CelticPredator]

I realize that as a lawyer, you are trained in doublespeak..

 

[user 1190]

It's a bit ridiculous that 9/11 drove us to this. 8 year old boys and old women being patted down...give me a break. If only we used common sense instead of fear and panic.

That would be a lot easier in any other country, but god forbid we profile someone, so everyone has to be checked.

 

[BadMoon]

That would be a lot easier in any other country, but god forbid we profile someone, so everyone has to be checked.

I'm curious. How would you profile?

 

[Mesa]

I'm curious. How would you profile?

Have you made any trips to countries known to spawn terrorists for starters.

 

[Darth Cruel]

Great movie!

 

[BadMoon]

Have you made any trips to countries known to spawn terrorists for starters.

So what are you saying? Every person that isn't white should be scanned with due process? Sounds like that Nazi regime our conspiracy theorist friends are trying to avoid. Don't agree with that one bit. If you want a free country you can't have it both ways.

 

[Mesa]

So what are you saying? Every person that isn't white should be scanned with due process? Sounds like that Nazi regime our conspiracy theorist friends are trying to avoid. Don't agree with that one bit. If you want a free country you can't have it both ways.

I'm just saying, the TSA screenings should be applied with common sense. Is it really worthwhile to screen an old woman making her annual trip to visit the grandkids (or vice versa) vs. someone who is more likely to have terrorists ties due to where they are coming from and going to, where they've been (I.e. The middle east), and any potential watchlists they may be on?

You cant screen everyone. I'd prioritize who I do screen.

And it seems like the US is turning more and more into Big Brother for all it's citizens because we are too afraid to offend a potential terrorists.

Like any other govt. agency regulating itself, common sense does not prevail and inefficiency abound.

 

[BadMoon]

I'm just saying, the TSA screenings should be applied with common sense. Is it really worthwhile to screen an old woman making her annual trip to visit the grandkids vs. someone who is more likely to have terrorists ties due to where they are coming from and going to, where they've been (I.e. The middle east), and any potential watchlists they may be on?

You cant screen everyone. I'd prioritize who I do screen.

Oh I know what you mean. Just don't agree. Many board members here are Mexican and Puerto Rican. Right? They look just like a middle eastern so they should be put through the ringer? What a joke.

 

[Mesa]

The situation sucks all around. Now we're in overkill mode while those meaning harm to us take advantage of our own sense of fairness, judicial justice, generosity, and stupidity.

Anymore, I hate to fly. Only do it once or twice a year.

What's funny is that while we focus all this energy on airport screenings, the next attack will probably be from some other method entirely.

 

[Fluoride Drinker]

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[Avenger]

Paxton wrote that fascism is:

a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy, but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.

I've come to realize in my 30 years on this planet, with much regret, that government abhors freedom. It is not because as individuals, we do not appreciate the splendor that liberty brings, nor the cherished lives it affords us. It is because collectively, government cannot operate without order which by its nature, restrains freedom. Government that works, treads the line of maintaining law while not imposing on the liberty of its citizens. However, in times of fear and apathy, citizens give up freedom for safety and comfort. Benjamin Franklin once wrote:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

It's not an argument for discarding prudent safety measures. But, it is a statement about the character of humanity, and the decline of liberty. There are security models out there that work without the TSA style approach (which has not proven to be effective), that require specialized enforcement officials rather than TSA's tv dinner lineup. Take a look at the Israeli model for instance.

TSA's problem isn't one of questioning their desire for security. We all agree there needs to be a solution. However, if we hand over our liberties and dignities to our government in fear and apathy, we empower it to control us rather than serve us. And, with each new generation, what was once a regrettable concession becomes common place. And, that generation will make it's own concessions. In time, we may find ourselves oppressed by a tyrannical government, faced with the need to once again rise up as patriots, and win our freedom. The preventative to that distant future, is ensuring our government continues to walk that line between law and liberty, serving the people.

Liberty is most often lost slowly in pieces, rarely in whole. We still have a choice, and those who refuse to submit to the screening do so by their own conscience, whether we agree with them or not. However, if we cherish the freedom that in time of need we would so willingly send our children, and our brothers and sisters to die to protect, we have a civic duty to ensure their prize is secure at home.

 

[Mesa]

Oh no, not Jesse Ventura. I wonder how the Truthers would handle TSA screenings.