MARVEL' S Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Wor-Gar]

As for Sam, for me anyway, doesn't compute either that all of a sudden this guy is having all this angst....Or he shouldn't have been a counselor.

This is a good point. Sam's supposed to be better than his angst.

I think the writers (Disney) feels that if Sam doesn't spent the requisite amount of time sulking and thinking and considering, then he isn't a good man.

 

[The Buffinator]

Damn you guys really mad at isiah huh?
I mean sheesh the guy got trauma. Of course he didn?t fight with cap America. He felt betrayed by the world he protected. I know you guys don?t sympathize. And I?m not gonna get into it further but it?s how some felt after ww2. They felt betrayed by America. Cause they fought for the country and came home to racism .

Anyway back to the toys

I was fine with Isaiah's story. Plus when exactly was he supposed to fight alongside Steve? While he was in prison? During Infinity War? I don't think he had a Quinjet parked behind the house to zip over to Edinburgh to help save Vision & SW, or to help out in Wakanda. And for all we know he may have been dusted for 5 years, but regardless even if he wanted to help out without Dr. Strange and his band of sorcerers sending an invite & opening a portal for him he wasn't going to make the Endgame fight either.

I find all the moaning (about their exploring in depth the black man taking up the shield issue) to be quite humorous. If they glossed over it the same people would be criticizing them for lacking the guts to address it.

 

[jal76]

Damn you guys really mad at isiah huh?
I mean sheesh the guy got trauma. Of course he didn?t fight with cap America. He felt betrayed by the world he protected. I know you guys don?t sympathize. And I?m not gonna get into it further but it?s how some felt after ww2. They felt betrayed by America. Cause they fought for the country and came home to racism .

Anyway back to the toys

Smartest post in the whole thread. I thought I was the only one here who actually understood what the writers were conveying, good to know someone else didn?t miss it too.

 

[matticus]

This finale better deliver or this thread will really be set on fire!

 

[jye4ever]

Narrative wise to make Sam look heroic i?m ok with them making Isaiah go heavy on white hatred so that Sam can ignore him and rise up and take on the mantle of Cap, it works at a basic level.

All they need to show now is a white American president accepting Sam as Cap and Isaiah will be proven wrong.

Hell it took Jesse Owens 40 years to finally be awarded by the US president but he got there eventually lol

I am surprised Marvel didn?t have Isaiah say something to the effect:

America had a black president Sam and look how he was treated 60% of his fellow americans wanted him dead!

Marvel didn?t have the balls lol

 

[jye4ever]

BTW as an MCU lover I will never rewatch WV or Falcon ever again no matter what happens in the Falcon last episode!

Mando S1 and S2 I did twice each already and will do a 3rd when the time comes

 

[matticus]

BTW as an MCU lover I will never rewatch WV or Falcon ever again no matter what happens in the Falcon last episode!

Mando S1 and S2 I did twice each already and will do a 3rd when the time comes

I signed up for Disney+ so I could watch F&WS. I didn't care to watch The Mando since TLJ completely ruined SW and I will never watch whatever EP9 was. But I was curious and check out the first ep and it was incredible from a filmmaking standpoint and the ST garbage is far away from it. I will never rewatch F&WS and will never watch WV, but I will rewatch The Mando seasons at some point. The Krayt Dragon episode was incredible.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Wandavision and Falcon are doomed to the Disney Vault.

 

[jye4ever]

Are tv shows really meant to be rewatched though

Would I ever revisit Gilligans Island, Brady Bunch, Mash, Lone Ranger, Superman, FTroop, Bonanza, Dallas, Dynasty, The Munsters, Addams Family, Welcome Back Kotter, Hill Street Blues, Cagney and Lacey, Sienfeld, Married with Children, I Love Lucy, The Honeymooners, Twilight Zone, Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley, Andy Griffith Show, Miami Vice, Magnum PI, A-Team, Threes Company, Charlies Angels.

The answer is yes I would and I have sorry WV and Falcon lol

 

[ironwez20]

WV was just a bunch of crappy mystery that went no where. Atleast this show is fun to watch

 

[jye4ever]

 

[Wor-Gar]

Why, Dimi... why?

 

[jye4ever]

Tranny Toht

 

[TheDucky]

BTW as an MCU lover I will never rewatch WV or Falcon ever again no matter what happens in the Falcon last episode!

Mando S1 and S2 I did twice each already and will do a 3rd when the time comes

Ehh, this show isn't on WV of bad. I'll probably watch it again because it is an important chapter for two characters I really like (Sam and Bucky, plus Zemo even). There were some great fight scenes and moments I really enjoyed in the show. I will be skipping A LOT of scenes though in a rewatch.

 

[e30ernest]

Ehh, this show isn't on WV of bad. I'll probably watch it again because it is an important chapter for two characters I really like (Sam and Bucky, plus Zemo even). There were some great fight scenes and moments I really enjoyed in the show. I will be skipping A LOT of scenes though in a rewatch.

So far only the Zemo episodes got my interest in this series. There doesn't seem to be a central mystery to the show, neither is there a real big bad. IMO WV was the more engaging show. Sure it didn't stick the landing, but I found the whole experience watching it to be much more fulfilling and their characters much more emotionally relatable.

 

[jye4ever]

Make no mistake about it just because someone (like me) sees no value in revisiting these shows does not mean they will not have any impact on the greater MCU of course they will these shows are not AOS afterall.

If you follow the MCU these shows require mandatory viewing even if only once thru.

If Marvel gets you to watch just once they already won half the battle.

 

[punisher1974]

Tranny Toht

In todays world that could happen if Raiders was remade.

 

[xipotec]

For me, it's not whether there are references in this show to real historical events or socio-economic issues.

It's whether it's something I wanted to get hammered with, in a fantasy show I watch for entertainment.

No different than the expectations folks had for, say, Ragnarok. A film I went into not expecting what I got; fortunately thought it was hilarious after getting over the shock. A lot of Thor fans felt differently tho.

Also, this show IMO crossed into tasteless a few times, including putting a tortured POW into the position of being an apologist - c'mon already. Also I'm always uneasy when any storyline seems to be imitative of an original story. Like, Isaiah saves POWs that were to be exterminated, same as Cap. But. Why did the base narrative have to be the same thing as Steve Rogers? Why couldn't it have been, say, a poor community was gonna be flooded from a storm and no-one on a base was gonna help or even bother to let the people know, so Isaiah went anyway? (That thought is actually based the FL Okeechobee hurricane of 1928 that flooded the lake out).

And so, OK, Sam Wilson essentially tells a kid not to use labels, then Isaiah gets Sam all upset, and now Sam's thinking about labels, and now Steve and Bucky are insensitive jerks because they (all the way back to the Howling Commandos) didn't think about it either? WTF. I guess Sam wouldn't bother helping Cap out now. When IMO one of the cool things about TWS was Falcon's intro into the MCU. It's as bad as when Captain Marvel film decided to co-opt the Avengers name etc.

Expectations. Srsly, if I'm watching Lord of the Rings, I don't need Legolas at the Council of Elrond launching into a speech about how great orcs are, and we should be nicer to them, and by the way, he's actually not sure that he's a prince, he thinks he wants to be a princess, so call him Lady Legolas from now on, and Rivendell sux, so he's off to join the Haradrim who have been discriminated against for ages by the snooty Northerners.

From reading posts around the 'net, there are plenty of people who like this current events approach. For me the overload just drains the fun out of it. Was hoping for the supposed buddy cop movie; Bucky stalking a target with a really big rifle; Falcon harassing him for a new car, stuff like that. An overall tone like TWS. Not beautiful close-ups of boat repair.

For me it sux, 'coz these are two of my favorite MCU characters and I was hoping this would be something I'd re-watch like IM1 or Avengers - instead it's like watching a current news reel with some occasional cringe. Lots of good stuff, but not sure how re-watchable this is overall.

They are ?hammering it? because it?s still a very real and present issue. Look especially at the last 4 years. Filmmakers and studios have almost always used film to bring up social issues of he day. Marvel itself has literally done this for most of its publication run.

If you don?t want social issues in your film you should stay as far away from MCU as you can. Because if they follow the publication history , your gonna be disappointed.

Now with SW I can sort of understand your point, although one could argue even that property was addressing some social issues throughout its early run.

Most of the complaints I see about this topic are simple cases of people who don?t want a black mans story in their media....if you wanna claim it?s not just THIS type of black mans story, then we just have different views of what the black experience in America has been for the past 200 years.


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[xipotec]

I'm a little unclear about Isaiah's story. I understand what he is supposed to represent in this allegory... but I'm not clear on what his actual history is. What I gathered: he was a soldier that got the super-serum and it worked so well that they (the government) started experimenting on him to see why? A nurse took pity on him and helped him escape. And now he's in hiding, protected by two basketball players outside. I'm certain I'm missing more of the story here.

Your not paying attention. It?s very clear. He says he went against orders, and they didn?t like a black man doing that, going rogue, so they decided he needed correcting and experiments.

Why is that complicated?


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[xipotec]

The general vibe seems to be that nobody wants their escapist fantasy tainted by the issues of the day. Some people think it's too heavy-handed, some people foam at the mouth and scream "AGENDA!1!", others just want action and superhero landings. I don't know how I feel about any of it anymore, to be honest. Not the issues of the day -- the whole genre.

Well said, but those people who say they don?t want their superhero fantasy interrupted must not really be superhero fans cause it?s been like this for decades.

It?s kinda like going to a hockey game and being upset some guys are ice skating and hitting a puck into a net, cause you thought it was about fighting....

Or going to an F1 race to see a crash.

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