MARVEL' S Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Sassafras]

The truth is you dont end racism with racism against white people (specifically white men) but thats the route disney is taking. According to disney all white males are deeply flawed (John Walker/Bucky Barnes), evil and or racist (Captain America 1.0 lecture)- this is why there will be no white male leads any of their films for a while (spiderman sequel had already began filming before this agenda really took hold) and what ive been saying all along about their "agenda" (eg replacing all the white males with all girl and or people of color avengers team). What we really need right now are more messages of unity and less of this in your face crap. Yes we know about the horrible past with slavery, its still present to a degree but its more subversive type which is why they use the term institutionalized.....

Unfortunately for me, since I live in the urban East and u get to see, experience, or hear about all kinds of stuff done by all kinds of people - basically, people can be real *&^%$ to each other.

Meanwhile suspect Disney is only getting so socially conscious because it's a potential gravy train; like maybe another Black Panther or Wonder Woman. But. You can only do "first event" movies one time. Next up will be Shang Chi - dunno about that one; folks weren't blown away by Mulan.

And, at least I got Zemo, Sharon Carter, and John Walker out of this; also fortunately Loki is coming up, which looks like a regular 'ol trippy Marvel romp. Which I'm more than ready for after the shock of watching the Winter Soldier apologizing for being a white devil I mean insensitive jerk.

“The Falcon and the Winter Solider” will be submitted as a Drama Series at this year’s Emmy Awards, marking a shift from its expected placement in the Limited Series categories.

In an exclusive interview with IndieWire, Marvel Studios VP of Production & Development and “Falcon and Winter Soldier” executive producer Nate Moore said they started planning to run the series as a Drama fairly early on.

Dramatic boat repair...bet this show sweeps the awards.

 

[ironwez20]

The truth is you dont end racism with racism against white people (specifically white men) but thats the route disney is taking. According to disney all white males are deeply flawed (John Walker/Bucky Barnes), evil and or racist (Captain America 1.0 lecture)- this is why there will be no white male leads any of their films for a while (spiderman sequel had already began filming before this agenda really took hold) and what ive been saying all along about their "agenda" (eg replacing all the white males with all girl and or people of color avengers team). What we really need right now are more messages of unity and less of this in your face crap. Yes we know about the horrible past with slavery, its still present to a degree but its more subversive type which is why they use the term institutionalized.

Yes there are still crazy white trash racist cops and hillbilly's out there but there are also racist black people. I have seen plenty of hate crimes against Asian Americans on the news perpetrated by black americans. There was one instance that was not deemed a hate crime cause the asian girl had a white boyfriend who was also assaulted during the attack. I guess if you attack white males it cant be called a hate crime- thats pretty sad white males are being stripped of any sort of humanity in this society. Not all white males are racist evil people its so dumb- the vast majority of white males are good people just like the vast majority of black people. Its redonkulous

One final thing id like to add is that speech by captain america 1.0 was same ******** i have heard for years, because white forefathers were racist that means all white people today are racist- the race doesnt change they are just bad- that sort of blanket stereotyping applied to all people of a certain complexion is the very definition of racism. Obviously the people that were experimenting on him were not the same ones alive in the government today yet he told Sam no self respecting black man would ever take that shield... Why because the white people he knew back when society was vastly different were bad so that means they are still bad today. That is a very racist comment, to say a an entire race of people are all bad evil and racist forever- that great grandsons & daughters possess the exact same thinking as their forefathers- i understand why he hated white people, the same reason jews hate nazi/germans, but that is not the line of thinking that will lead us to change in society going forward. You dont right the wrongs perpetrated against black people by perpetrating those same wrongs against white males- its completely counterproductive

It?s not being racist to white men. Idk why you think that. It?s just shedding light on certain issues and showing how things are. The fact that your so upset shows why we need to discuss this topic. There is no war for the white man.

John walker was flawed in the comics way before any of this agenda stuff you speak of. He was always like this. He?s a hot head. Nobody is hating on white men. Idk about Disney Star Wars but nobody wants to put down white people or bring down white men what people of color want to show you is that certain issues exist and that this is how people feel.

You can disagree with me but that?s all. Yes people are rude and take it to far but the goal isn?t to erase the white man. Just live in peace with everyone.

Anyway back to toys!

I know I?m gonna get a lot of hate for saying that but yea. Idc what Twitter or Disney says. Most people don?t see white people as bad. Just want to live equally with them and a lot feel like they don?t live equal.... sadly .

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

It?s not being racist to white men. Idk why you think that. It?s just shedding light on certain issues and showing how things are. The fact that your so upset shows why we need to discuss this topic. There is no war for the white man.

John walker was flawed in the comics way before any of this agenda stuff you speak of. He was always like this. He?s a hot head. Nobody is hating on white men. Idk about Disney Star Wars but nobody wants to put down white people or bring down white men what people of color want to show you is that certain issues exist and that this is how people feel.

You can disagree with me but that?s all. Yes people are rude and take it to far but the goal isn?t to erase the white man. Just live in peace with everyone.

Anyway back to toys!

I know I?m gonna get a lot of hate for saying that but yea. Idc what Twitter or Disney says. Most people don?t see white people as bad. Just want to live equally with them and a lot feel like they don?t live equal.... sadly .

Its more then that last part you said but i dont want to say anymore on the topic. I will say the best thing about the last episode was at the end when sam and bucky were sharing the shield united as one tossing it around at the practice dummy’s - thats the message they should be going for one of unity and bringing people together- you just need to mute most of the conversation to enjoy it..

Btw watch out for spiderwoman she is going to eat our beloved peter parker for breakfast like her female black widow brethren do after mating with the male widows. Rumor is she is going to be introduced in secret invasion and might be played by Emile clarke https://www.google.com/amp/s/moview...sion-emilia-clarke-spider-woman-jessica-drew/. Hopefully it remains just a rumor cause if they bring her in thats it for spidey as a lead- i told you he would be next- all of the of avengers that havent already been replaced will be (with the opposite sex counterpart) its just a matter of time. i hope you screen shotted that one post when i warned you of all of this lol. I am all for diversity i love all these heroes but damn disney is overcompensating here why cant we have them all- there was no need to kill off the other avengers (iron man ect), retire the character of steve rodgers for good, depower hulk or even have lady thor in thors last solo movie (is the intention to have her show him up or replace him????)- why must we replace certain characters- sorry i dont like it. Why are the most powerful mcu characters now all female, and must they be so in your face about it, why do they feel the need to tear down one to build up the other?? Why not just make a badass superhero movie comprised of both men and woman of all races working together- all with various power sets regardless of their sex or race?? Dare i say more like zsjl and the avengers movies of old or even the first guardians flick.

 

[xipotec]

I'd argue tho, and many have said the same, that it's not whether it's a black man's story in their media; or Asian...or the one I'm waiting for, Native American.

It's the WAY a character is introduced and presented. There's some pretty funny essays, for example, on ever since Tolkien, just about every quest type fantasy book is pretty imitative assembling its team of noble warrior with a cool sword, an elf, the dwarf or orc, and a woman with some kind of special powers. The imitations may be well written; but, u know exactly where the whole story came from.

When's the last time a completely original iconic comic character got introduced? Maybe all the good ideas have been used up. But Isaiah is a character created by morphing off the character arc of Captain America; instead of making use of something original. Like, all the redlining that went on in Chicago as African Americans migrated North after the U.S. Civil War. Why not start in that crucible, developing an ORIGINAL character based on that history?

IMO saying "well, we don't want a woman/black person/white person/brown person" playing in our sandbox is too simplistic. Look how well Black Panther was introduced - in a movie that DID deal with the global issue of unmonitored used of power; and splits friends apart over the question of guilt/innocence.

Personally, I sure don't have a problem with Falcon becoming the next Cap; the image of a winged Cap is kinda cool; and for completely selfish reasons I'd rather have the Winter Soldier stay the Winter Soldier as a character. Heck, I'm already taking a liking to Torres who guess is gonna be the new Falcon.

But that's the thing; instead of a series stuffed with dry banter between Sam and Bucky; a few nice quiet moments talking about Steve; or war in general; or Bucky trying to figure out what to do (credit to the series for that one); humor - well, yeah, there is that. But the presentation is SO HEAVY, and not exactly believable like the whole "Avengers didn't get paid" stuff.

Are you kidding? Someone, probably Stark, bankrolled millions of dollars worth of building and equipment - he says as much in AOU. Plus, Fury had a vested interest in having a team of Avengers=Federal government funding. Doesn't compute that no-one was getting paid.

So how's Bucky paying for a New York apartment, anyway? Too bad they didn't do something funnier, like Bucky handing Falcon stacks of Hydra cash from some old hidden safehouse, and Sam having a meltdown over that and the huge weapons cache. And it would've made sense too; a lot of traumatized people will hoard stuff - food, money, bug-out kit, etc.

That's the kind of thing I was expecting; not that white bank people are bumbling insensitive clods. There's good stuff in this series; started off well; but Spellman & co. sucked most of the fun out. At least Zemo was a breath a fresh air. Completely illogical, but feel like I'm entitled to be *&&% off. A couple of my fav MCU characters - the favorite even - and instead of something I'd rewatch like Avengers 1 or TWS, I get a leaden barrage of current society issues and rehashed storylines. So much angst! And boat repair.

I should've been losing it over the finale and checking the bank balance to order figs by now; instead I just feel kind of tepid about the whole thing.

But Isaiah story was in the Marvel comics!!! It?s a big arc!

As for the Native Americans , they had their day on the 90?s, Windtalkers, Thunderheart, Dances with Wolves, after they made enough cash on them , they were once again forgotten. I am hoping this time around, Hollywood will keep pressing the issues until different looking faces becomes customary. Looking back on the 70-80-90 it?s all to obvious that any minority had to play a supporting role of any role. It too Denzel Washington to really break that run, and then Hollywood fell back to the white lead.

It feels forced now because it IS being forced, because it?s way past time for it to have happened, it?s still being resisted so some studios are pushing through against a lot of resistance.

Black Panther is the perfect example to cite. I don?t know what your experience was , but right here on this forum people ripped it to shreds all the time, before it came out, saying crazy crap all damn year.

It was only after it came out that a lot of those folks clammed up, because there was no denying it was a great MCU film. But to this day a certain segment still has issues with it ......what the real issue is themselves.


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[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

I loved black panther but what i dont like is the idea of not recasting him for panther 2 and replacing him with shuri- who is the only logical choice remaining if they are not recasting the part with another male actor. He has no other brothers to be king of wakanda so like coming to america 2 its going to be the daughter/sister. But again disney is trying push an all female team on us so it is what it is

 

[xipotec]

The truth is you dont end racism with racism against white people (specifically white men) but thats the route disney is taking. According to disney all white males are deeply flawed (John Walker/Bucky Barnes), evil and or racist (Captain America 1.0 lecture)- this is why there will be no white male leads any of their films for a while (spiderman sequel had already began filming before this agenda really took hold) and what ive been saying all along about their "agenda" (eg replacing all the white males with all girl and or people of color avengers team). What we really need right now are more messages of unity and less of this in your face crap. Yes we know about the horrible past with slavery, its still present to a degree but its more subversive type which is why they use the term institutionalized.

Yes there are still crazy white trash racist cops and hillbilly's out there but there are also racist black people. I have seen plenty of hate crimes against Asian Americans on the news perpetrated by black americans. There was one instance that was not deemed a hate crime cause the asian girl had a white boyfriend who was also assaulted during the attack. I guess if you attack white males it cant be called a hate crime- thats pretty sad white males are being stripped of any sort of humanity in this society. Not all white males are racist evil people its so dumb- the vast majority of white males are good people just like the vast majority of black people. Its redonkulous

One final thing id like to add is that speech by captain america 1.0 was same ******** i have heard for years, because white forefathers were racist that means all white people today are racist- the race doesnt change they are just bad- that sort of blanket stereotyping applied to all people of a certain complexion is the very definition of racism. Obviously the people that were experimenting on him were not the same ones alive in the government today yet he told Sam no self respecting black man would ever take that shield... Why because the white people he knew back when society was vastly different were bad so that means they are still bad today. That is a very racist comment, to say a an entire race of people are all bad evil and racist forever- that great grandsons & daughters possess the exact same thinking as their forefathers- i understand why he hated white people, the same reason jews hate nazi/germans, but that is not the line of thinking that will lead us to change in society going forward. You dont right the wrongs perpetrated against black people by perpetrating those same wrongs against white males- its completely counterproductive

Yeah sorry man.

Projection pure and simple. In no way has the white man ever had to deal with racism in America .......not now , not ever.

To think somehow white men are being attacked or excluded is just a fantasy.


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[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Yeah sorry man.

Projection pure and simple. In no way has the white man ever had to deal with racism in America .......not now , not ever.

To think somehow white men are being attacked or excluded is just a fantasy.


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Lol the fantasy is not opening your eyes to whats actually happening now, and your crazy to think that white people have never been victims of racism in america. Racists come in all shapes and colors. You never heard of the black panthers or the rodney king riots where innocent white people were specifcally targeted just because they were white. Racism stems from ignorance and fear of the unknown- sadly qualities some subsets of the human population poses regardless of skin tone, religion or creed. Anyone can be a victim of racism or prejudice especially in the melting pot that is called the usa.

 

[chrisstbh]

The truth is you dont end racism with racism against white people (specifically white men) but thats the route disney is taking. According to disney all white males are deeply flawed (John Walker/Bucky Barnes), evil and or racist (Captain America 1.0 lecture)- this is why there will be no white male leads any of their films for a while (spiderman sequel had already began filming before this agenda really took hold) and what ive been saying all along about their "agenda" (eg replacing all the white males with all girl and or people of color avengers team). What we really need right now are more messages of unity and less of this in your face crap. Yes we know about the horrible past with slavery, its still present to a degree but its more subversive type which is why they use the term institutionalized.

Nobody is being racist towards white men. There are plenty of ?white leads? going forward. Spiderman NWH, Doctor Strange MOM, Thor Love and Thunderr, Fantastic 4, Eternals, Loki, Hawkeye, Guardians Christmas Special, Guardians 3.

Stop being so fragile that you cant handle legitimate issues being raised and discussed. Nobody is out to get you. America is built on racism and its still deeply ingrained in the society. It should be talked about.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I think I would have rather seen Bucky Cap happen

 

[jye4ever]

Hush white devil lol

 

[xipotec]

Lol the fantasy is not opening your eyes to whats actually happening now, and your crazy to think that white people have never been victims of racism in america. Racists come in all shapes and colors. You never heard of the black panthers or the rodney king riots where innocent white people were specifcally targeted just because they were white. Racism stems from ignorance and fear of the unknown- sadly qualities some subsets of the human population poses regardless of skin tone, religion or creed. Anyone can be a victim of racism or prejudice especially in the melting pot that is called the usa.

The black panthers???? LOL what threat were they to white men as a whole? I am not talking about one on one racsim, of course that exists, I am talking, as is the show, about SYSTEMIC racism, which is far more harmful than a single black man or a small group of black men who do not like white people.

It would take a hundred years of concentrates effort to undo European white control over half the planet.


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[xipotec]

I think I would have rather seen Bucky Cap happen

May would have due to his relationship with Steve, but I think it?s very wrong for the character. It?s not who he is. He wants to stop fighting and live in peace.

Sam is the successor, the should have built up his friendship to Cap more is all.....


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[matticus]

Well even though some of us were disappointed with the last episode, I think they cheaped out to maximize the cost for the finale. You see it all the time in tv, so I expect the same here.

 

[jal76]

Nobody is being racist towards white men. There are plenty of ?white leads? going forward. Spiderman NWH, Doctor Strange MOM, Thor Love and Thunderr, Fantastic 4, Eternals, Loki, Hawkeye, Guardians Christmas Special, Guardians 3.

Stop being so fragile that you cant handle legitimate issues being raised and discussed. Nobody is out to get you. America is built on racism and its still deeply ingrained in the society. It should be talked about.

It must be miserable to be so fragile that one superhero of another ethnicity shows up and you literally feel that your own way of life is coming to an end.
Imagine thinking that you are the actual victim of racism because you have to see people of other races getting the bare minimum attention and exposure for the first time in decades.
It actually saddens me to know that there are people out there who think that way. Makes the world a far worse place.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

It must be miserable to be so fragile that one superhero of another ethnicity shows up and you literally feel that your own way of life is coming to an end.
Imagine thinking that you are the actual victim of racism because you have to see people of other races getting the bare minimum attention and exposure for the first time in decades.
It actually saddens me to know that there are people out there who think that way. Makes the world a far worse place.

lol not once did i say i dont like minorties or women in roles but if thats what you got from my posts then i dont know what to tell you. That doesnt mean disney isnt going overboard with this stuff.. They do not have to get rid of captain america, iron man or thor and replace them with Captain Marvel Scarlet Witch and Lady Thor. Why cant they do them all. I just dont get the logic in it other then there is some massive agenda at disney to avoid films staring white males. It would be like if DC killed of superman batman and aquaman and replaced them with supergirl, batwoman and mera for good. They already said steve roders is never comming back, ironman aint coming back so why would you do that to your characters- there is still alot of movies to be made and stories that could be told with steve rodgers especially.. You got a depowered Hulk with a She hulk show on the horizon so does that mean she hulk is going to be more powerful then him and or replace him too.. Shuri panther now rumors of spiderwoman in Secret invasion...

Let me be clear i am fine with all these movies being made but not at the expense of some characters and that seems to be the case-

 

[jal76]

lol not once did i say i dont like minorties or women in roles but if thats what you got from my posts then i dont know what to tell you. That doesnt mean disney isnt going overboard with this stuff.. They do not have to get rid of captain america, iron man or thor and replace them with Captain Marvel Scarlet Witch and Lady Thor. Why cant they do them all. I just dont get the logic in it other then there is some massive agenda at disney to avoid films staring white males. It would be like if DC killed of superman batman and aquaman and replaced them with supergirl, batwoman and mera for good. They already said steve roders is never comming back, ironman aint coming back so why would you do that to your characters- there is still alot of movies to be made and stories that could be told with steve rodgers especially.. You got a depowered Hulk with a She hulk show on the horizon so does that mean she hulk is going to be more powerful then him and or replace him too.. Shuri panther now rumors of spiderwoman in Secret invasion...

They are doing everyone just like you want them to.
What makes you think they are replacing anyone?
I am sure that if Chris Evans was willing to they would be making ten more Captain America movies starring him.
Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch are popular, well established characters, why wouldn?t they put them in movies?
Should they leave them out just because they are women? Female Thor was an established storyline, should they avoid it just because she?s a woman?
I grew up on John Byrne?s She-Hulk comic series, one of my all time favorites, should an established character who was an Avenger, Fantastic Four, and Hulk family member be left out because she?s a woman? These are important characters.
Was Thor being replaced when Dr Strange was added? Or was Iron Man being replaced when Ant Man was added? No offense, but your perspective doesn?t make any sense.
What is going on with you that you think ?white males? have things so bad in the world?

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

The black panthers???? LOL what threat were they to white men as a whole? I am not talking about one on one racsim, of course that exists, I am talking, as is the show, about SYSTEMIC racism, which is far more harmful than a single black man or a small group of black men who do not like white people.

It would take a hundred years of concentrates effort to undo European white control over half the planet.


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I agree systematic racism isn't so much an issue for whites accept when it comes to certain welfare programs or getting into certain schools where diversity is greatly valued. And there was a program called affirmative action back in the 1990s that was essentially reverse racism toward whites that gave both companies and schools programs major tax incentives for hiring and enrolling minorities and females instead of Caucasian males. I was applying to college during this time, one of the school literally declined me because of the skin tone lol.

The one way to fight systematic racism is to ensure that corporations have diverse workforces especially in key sectors that service our population such as banking and financing. One of the major issues right now is that miniorties tend to get unfavorable interest rates in comparison to white people with the same credit scores. If the workforce was diverse you would hope this sort of stuff wouldnt transpire. I dont know how we fix the police, they are humans with guns that are going to make mistakes- the problem is we need them too otherwise there would be complete chaos. My only suggestion would be to rotate the officers out of jurisdictions more often so they do not service the same area years on end. There is no reason an officer should be working the same blocks for 15 years-

In terms of white control of the planet im not so sure of that, what is your basis for control military power or wealth. Also lets not forget America did have a black president not too long ago, and currently has a black/indian vice president who would assume control if biden falls down another flight of stairs. I thinking you painting too bleak a picture here. Moreover, Some of the wealthiest people in America are minorities.

In about 250 years none of this will be a problem because of all the race mixing- we will all have the same skin tone here in the states.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

They are doing everyone just like you want them to.
What makes you think they are replacing anyone?
I am sure that if Chris Evans was willing to they would be making ten more Captain America movies starring him.
Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch are popular, well established characters, why wouldn?t they put them in movies?
Should they leave them out just because they are women? Female Thor was an established storyline, should they avoid it just because she?s a woman?
I grew up on John Byrne?s She-Hulk comic series, one of my all time favorites, should an established character who was an Avenger, Fantastic Four, and Hulk family member be left out because she?s a woman? These are important characters.
Was Thor being replaced when Dr Strange was added? Or was Iron Man being replaced when Ant Man was added? No offense, but your perspective doesn?t make any sense.
What is going on with you that you think ?white males? have things so bad in the world?

In disney's world my friend only in disney's world. That been my gripe this whole time i dont know where you getting this other crap. I was simply responding to the other poster that said white people have never been victims of racism in america. Which is a completely false statement.

In terms of Steve Rodgers Captain America, the character is bigger than the actor if he doesnt want to come back which i dont believe for a second he wouldnt then recast the part. Fiege is the one that dispelled the rumor of his return after chris evens posted something on social media that got people thinking he was coming back. The wont even recast black panther with another black male actor even when mcu fans are begging them to do so- nobody wants to see shuri panther. You cant say that arent replacing these people with female counterparts when thats exactly what they are doing. Sure lady thor can have a movie but why does she need to be in thor's to upstage him or for him to pass on the torch to her- Natalie Portman was done with the role, until she wasnt why do you think she came back- she hated marvel for firing patty jenkins... she is going to be the new thor going forward they must have promised her something to sweeten the deal and get her back.................... You dont get rid of thor if hemsworth is done recast the part you dont just replace him with Lady Thor going forward.

 

[Sassafras]

But Isaiah story was in the Marvel comics!!! It?s a big arc!

As for the Native Americans , they had their day on the 90?s, Windtalkers, Thunderheart, Dances with Wolves, after they made enough cash on them , they were once again forgotten. I am hoping this time around, Hollywood will keep pressing the issues until different looking faces becomes customary. Looking back on the 70-80-90 it?s all to obvious that any minority had to play a supporting role of any role. It too Denzel Washington to really break that run, and then Hollywood fell back to the white lead.

It feels forced now because it IS being forced, because it?s way past time for it to have happened, it?s still being resisted so some studios are pushing through against a lot of resistance.

Black Panther is the perfect example to cite. I don?t know what your experience was , but right here on this forum people ripped it to shreds all the time, before it came out, saying crazy crap all damn year.

It was only after it came out that a lot of those folks clammed up, because there was no denying it was a great MCU film. But to this day a certain segment still has issues with it ......what the real issue is themselves.

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But the irritant for me is, was the laundry list of goods appropriately *realistically* grafted onto two characters we already know in a certain way; and/or is it in anyway useful to sell folks a bill of goods. E.g this series was sold as pretty much a buddy cop movie, not a leaden vehicle for racial/immigration issues. Sure, the issue is myself. Because of the concepts of choice, and expectations of characters I'm already familiar with.

If Sam Wilson had initially been presented to me this way, he wouldn't have been one of my favorite characters. He's initially a likeable, and very cool, addition to the MCU. Leaves the service after the loss of a white friend has him question - everything.

So all of a sudden this very grounded character, who may not have been thrilled with Steve's attachment to an assassin but goes along with the rescue mission 'coz that's what friends do, all of a sudden is using phrases like "white people". WTF. (And dunno where other folks live, but I'd say we've got a mixed group working at our banks - black, Indian, Asian, etc. At the post office. My primary doctor. etc.)

It's like the writers really believe that old SNL Eddie Murphy skit, where, if u are Caucasian, u just wander into a bank and they hand you stacks of cash, and can pay it back - whenever. Plus you get served drinks.

I don't especially care for this Sam Wilson; or maybe it's the whole script; at times he comes off as patronizing, humorless, and not what I'd think of as counselor material. So much angst!

There's more character warping as tho a trained assassin doesn't know how to get things done (by himself if needed) - it's like the writers threw out years of comic history. Bucky gets nerfed to a degree; but then, so does Sam; with this decision to be pretty weaponless. Then there's a script that actually uses a former POW to be an apologist for "insensitivity"; and srsly, think the writers need to spend some time at a VA hospital or up at the Wall in DC.

(As for Black Panther, IMO it was definitely not a great film. IMO a great film is the total package. Great performances by a committed cast; but the narrative itself didn't compute; starting with this big secret that I could never get why it had to be a secret at all. The CGI issues. Heck, Killmonger talking about his ancestors when technically speaking, 1/2 his ancestors came from Wakanda and he was a prince. How T'challa falls into a river and isn't taken downstream, when water generally runs from mountains, downward, so did the fisherman drag him all the way back up into the mountains? Plus the whole messiness of T'challa already being the Black Panther in Civil War, so what was the whole ceremony about in BP? )

So, if anyone's gonna say, well, these are current issues and it's a good thing we're gonna stick this grocery list of wrongs in your face, 'coz u need to be "educated"; I'd say: 1)It's pretty insulting to assume that folks don't read or take classes or watch the news and haven't already heard all this stuff and 2)What good does it do to produce a product that has at least some folks fast-forwarding or changing the channel?

Dunno if there will be a season 2, or not, but bummer for me - my favorite MCU character, and a favorite MCU character, and if that happens and it's the same showrunner, I don't even care. It's like any product - change it to a product I don't like, and I close the wallet.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

But the irritant for me is, was the laundry list of goods appropriately *realistically* grafted onto two characters we already know in a certain way; and/or is it in anyway useful to sell folks a bill of goods. E.g this series was sold as pretty much a buddy cop movie, not a leaden vehicle for racial/immigration issues. Sure, the issue is myself. Because of the concepts of choice, and expectations of characters I'm already familiar with.

If Sam Wilson had initially been presented to me this way, he wouldn't have been one of my favorite characters. He's initially a likeable, and very cool, addition to the MCU. Leaves the service after the loss of a white friend has him question - everything.

So all of a sudden this very grounded character, who may not have been thrilled with Steve's attachment to an assassin but goes along with the rescue mission 'coz that's what friends do, all of a sudden is using phrases like "white people". WTF. (And dunno where other folks live, but I'd say we've got a mixed group working at our banks - black, Indian, Asian, etc. At the post office. My primary doctor. etc.)

It's like the writers really believe that old SNL Eddie Murphy skit, where, if u are Caucasian, u just wander into a bank and they hand you stacks of cash, and can pay it back - whenever. Plus you get served drinks.

I don't especially care for this Sam Wilson; or maybe it's the whole script; at times he comes off as patronizing, humorless, and not what I'd think of as counselor material. So much angst!

There's more character warping as tho a trained assassin doesn't know how to get things done (by himself if needed) - it's like the writers threw out years of comic history. Bucky gets nerfed to a degree; but then, so does Sam; with this decision to be pretty weaponless. Then there's a script that actually uses a former POW to be an apologist for "insensitivity"; and srsly, think the writers need to spend some time at a VA hospital or up at the Wall in DC.

(As for Black Panther, IMO it was definitely not a great film. IMO a great film is the total package. Great performances by a committed cast; but the narrative itself didn't compute; starting with this big secret that I could never get why it had to be a secret at all. The CGI issues. Heck, Killmonger talking about his ancestors when technically speaking, 1/2 his ancestors came from Wakanda and he was a prince. How T'challa falls into a river and isn't taken downstream, when water generally runs from mountains, downward, so did the fisherman drag him all the way back up into the mountains? Plus the whole messiness of T'challa already being the Black Panther in Civil War, so what was the whole ceremony about in BP? )

So, if anyone's gonna say, well, these are current issues and it's a good thing we're gonna stick this grocery list of wrongs in your face, 'coz u need to be "educated"; I'd say: 1)It's pretty insulting to assume that folks don't read or take classes or watch the news and haven't already heard all this stuff and 2)What good does it do to produce a product that has at least some folks fast-forwarding or changing the channel?

Dunno if there will be a season 2, or not, but bummer for me - my favorite MCU character, and a favorite MCU character, and if that happens and it's the same showrunner, I don't even care. It's like any product - change it to a product I don't like, and I close the wallet.

Good post!! I really liked both of the characters prior to this show as well, the winter soldier is probably my favorite marvel movie. It was so nice to see sam and steve working together as a team without any of the racial issues or sam making steve feel guilty about the color of his skin. This episode actually took a shot at steve too by saying he didn't fully understand sam's plight as a black man when he handed him the shield- the more logical answer is that Steve was "colorblind" pure of prejudice of any kind, he saw Sam as an equal, a true friend and a good human being- frankly he saw himself in Sam. But no this show had to go and tarnish that moment.