MARVEL' S Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Sassafras]

In disney's world my friend only in disney's world. That been my gripe this whole time i dont know where you getting this other crap. I was simply responding to the other poster that said white people have never been victims of racism in america. Which is a completely false statement.

In terms of Steve Rodgers Captain America, the character is bigger than the actor if he doesnt want to come back which i dont believe for a second he wouldnt then recast the part. Fiege is the one that dispelled the rumor of his return after chris evens posted something on social media that got people thinking he was coming back. The wont even recast black panther with another black male actor even when mcu fans are begging them to do so- nobody wants to see shuri panther. You cant say that arent replacing these people with female counterparts when thats exactly what they are doing. Sure lady thor can have a movie but why does she need to be in thor's to upstage him or for him to pass on the torch to her- Natalie Portman was done with the role, until she wasnt why do you think she came back- she hated marvel for firing patty jenkins... she is going to be the new thor going forward they must have promised her something to sweeten the deal and get her back.................... You dont get rid of thor if hemsworth is done recast the part you dont just replace him with Lady Thor going forward.

Well, that's true. Happens all the time where I am. Acts against Asians as well. Plus passive-aggressive hostility.

Re Evans, he was blowing hot and cold about being in the MCU all the way back to TWS. Suspect, possibly, like Portman, only might return if his bank balance looks low. Personally I just can't get with Portman anyway - she had no chemistry with Hemsworth and isn't a believable badass.

As for BP - gotta admit I feel for Disney on that one; and for anyone who really loved that film and wanted more (well, I wanted more too; but it was hopefully with Bucky in tow as the White Wolf and more M'baku, who IMO really needs more screen time). Far as I can tell it's a no-win situation, until more time has passed anyway. Maybe Disney should fast track the X-men instead; folks seem to be up for more even if there's plenty of films already.

Good post!! I really liked both of the characters prior to this show as well, the winter soldier is probably my favorite marvel movie. It was so nice to see sam and steve working together as a team without any of the racial issues or sam making steve feel guilty about the color of his skin. This episode actually took a shot at steve too by saying he didn't fully understand sam's plight as a black man when he handed him the shield- the more logical answer is that Steve was "colorblind" pure of prejudice of any kind, he saw Sam as an equal, a true friend and a good human being- frankly he saw himself in Sam. But no this show had to go and tarnish that moment.

Thank you. Exactly. I caught that shot at Steve Rogers too, and completely agree that I view Steve Rogers as pure that way - also, that point is made, I think, in the Avengers when Bruce Banner asks what Steve had heard about him, and Steve responds Banner helping to find the Cube is the only thing he cares about.

It's one of the things that irritates me about this show - u don't go an undermine a well-established character (all the way back to the formation of the Howling Commandos) who is just - an inherently good man. Always was. Even his potentially blind belief in Bucky. when Sam tries to point out that Bucky doesn't know him any more.

Srsly you couldn't even make the contrast with John Walker falling, as it were, unless Steve Rogers WAS that "pure"; and even Zemo points out there'd never been another Steve Rogers. Then this last episode here's this multi-decade torture victim (unbelievably this show goes out of its way to say this other hero had worse torture, or something like that - I get what they were doing but it was tasteless)...someone having nightmares and flashbacks apologizing for himself and *&^%$ Steve Rogers. For me, it DID stain the simple passing of the shield to Sam, because Sam is also a good man.

Happily if I ever watch this series again - debatable, since it's pretty leaden except when Zemo is around...except for the fight, maybe I can just skip episode 5. We'll see if they can get through episode 6 without another lecture, but I doubt it.

I'm real sorry I picked up a T-shirt for this show, there's 20$ down the drain.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Well, that's true. Happens all the time where I am. Acts against Asians as well. Plus passive-aggressive hostility.

Re Evans, he was blowing hot and cold about being in the MCU all the way back to TWS. Suspect, possibly, like Portman, only might return if his bank balance looks low. Personally I just can't get with Portman anyway - she had no chemistry with Hemsworth and isn't a believable badass.

As for BP - gotta admit I feel for Disney on that one; and for anyone who really loved that film and wanted more (well, I wanted more too; but it was hopefully with Bucky in tow as the White Wolf and more M'baku, who IMO really needs more screen time). Far as I can tell it's a no-win situation, until more time has passed anyway. Maybe Disney should fast track the X-men instead; folks seem to be up for more even if there's plenty of films already.

The real questions is why arent the fast tracking the xmen or fantastic 4?? Its just massive money being left out of the bank on the writing room floor, people are excited to see them, way more than any of the crap in phase 4 (outside of spiderman 3). Could it be that the demographics of the team dont suit their current film direction of the corporation? Those teams are comprised mostly of characters with the same particular skin tone and many of them have the male anatomy lol. They should just make all the xmen and FF4 females and minorities so it can be approved by disney's exectives and fast tracked to a theater or streaming service near you.

 

[Sassafras]

The real questions is why arent the fast tracking the xmen or fantastic 4?? Its just massive money being left out of the bank on the writing room floor, people are excited to see them, way more than any of the crap in phase 4 (outside of spiderman 3). Could it be that the demographics of the team dont suit their current film direction? Those teams are comprised mostly of characters with the same particular skin tone and many of them have the male anatomy lol. They should just make all the xmen and FF4 females and minorities so it can be approved by disney's exectives and fast tracked to a theater or streaming service near you

I think it's a business decision that I'd have agreed with; the other movies are still too recent and it takes a lot of thought to recast these characters for probably multiple films and storylines. You also need actors willing to commit to multiple projects, do the gym work, etc.

But, seems like folks are already hungry for more, so maybe the thought to give Xmen a break, and FF4 was a miscalculation on Disney's part.

 

[JAWS]

You savage you first you disappear into your snobby polystone statue world then you pop in unexpected and put a wrinkle in Khevs and Wor-Gars hatred of this show lol

I had no idea the show was getting hate.

I dont know whats to hate? I mean the last episode was boring as hell but the other 4 were just fine.. Not a fan of the Super soldier villains but everything else has been fine.

I am enjoying it more than ZSJL

 

[Wor-Gar]

I am enjoying it more than ZSJL

Well then, this must be filmmaking at its best.

JAWS, I'm surprised by your ability to be pleased so easily. Watching a masterpiece like Jaws must make you sad having nothing like it for so many decades. Now, enjoyment comes from grown men in flamboyant outfits taking on the hard issues of the day, where the mere fact that these characters seem upset by injustices means that something in the real world is actually being done.

 

[jal76]

I was applying to college during this time, one of the school literally declined me because of the skin tone lol.
.

They told you that? In writing? They broke the law in writing?
Because of course you know for a fact that your GPA, test scores, and even extracurricular activities were significantly better than ALL of the other applicants.
If that?s what you have to tell yourself to explain why you didn?t get in then more power to you my friend.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

They told you that? In writing? They broke the law in writing?
Because of course you know for a fact that your GPA, test scores, and even extracurricular activities were significantly better than ALL of the other applicants.
If that?s what you have to tell yourself to explain why you didn?t get in then more power to you my friend.

yes it was in writing i did not meet the demographics of the types of students they were looking for- just a nicer way of saying my skin tone. And no they did not break the law then because of affirmative action. My GPA and extracurricular activities were not the problem

Affirmative action in the United States is a set of laws, policies, guidelines, and administrative practices "intended to end and correct the effects of a specific form of discrimination"[1] that include government-mandated, government-approved, and voluntary private programs. The programs tend to focus on access to education and employment, granting special consideration to historically excluded groups, specifically racial minorities or women.[1][2] The impetus toward affirmative action is redressing the disadvantages[3][4][5][6][7] associated with past and present discrimination.[8] Further impetus is a desire to ensure public institutions, such as universities, hospitals, and police forces, are more representative of the populations they serve.[9]

In the United States, affirmative action included the use of racial quotas until the Supreme Court ruled that quotas were unconstitutional.[10] Affirmative action currently tends to emphasize not specific quotas but rather "targeted goals" to address past discrimination in a particular institution or in broader society through "good-faith efforts ... to identify, select, and train potentially qualified minorities and women."[1][11] For example, many higher education institutions have voluntarily adopted policies which seek to increase recruitment of racial minorities.[12] Outreach campaigns, targeted recruitment, employee and management development, and employee support programs are examples of affirmative action in employment.[13

When i applied to school the quotas were in full force meaning that they purposely excluded white people that were more or equally qualified as other applicants just because they were white and that was the reason cited in your rejection letter

Jeez do they not teach history in school anymore lol.

 

[Khev]

I had no idea the show was getting hate.

I think they spent way too much time on issues/characters that no one cares about while rushing through what could have been a gold mine of a story with Walker taking over the role and his subsequent decent into homicidal madness with his moral compass and ultimately buddy Lemar could only watch while being powerless to stop it. Flag Smasher should have been a singular character who was a buff badass with a cool costume instead of the stupid characters that we got instead.

Having Zemo right there but wasting his charisma and Batroc also present while wasting his fighting abilities just added salt to the wound.

 

[jal76]

yes it was in writing i did not meet the demographics of the types of students they were looking for- just a nicer way of saying my skin tone. And no they did not break the law then because of affirmative action. My GPA and extracurricular activities were not the problem

Affirmative action in the United States is a set of laws, policies, guidelines, and administrative practices "intended to end and correct the effects of a specific form of discrimination"[1] that include government-mandated, government-approved, and voluntary private programs. The programs tend to focus on access to education and employment, granting special consideration to historically excluded groups, specifically racial minorities or women.[1][2] The impetus toward affirmative action is redressing the disadvantages[3][4][5][6][7] associated with past and present discrimination.[8] Further impetus is a desire to ensure public institutions, such as universities, hospitals, and police forces, are more representative of the populations they serve.[9]

In the United States, affirmative action included the use of racial quotas until the Supreme Court ruled that quotas were unconstitutional.[10] Affirmative action currently tends to emphasize not specific quotas but rather "targeted goals" to address past discrimination in a particular institution or in broader society through "good-faith efforts ... to identify, select, and train potentially qualified minorities and women."[1][11] For example, many higher education institutions have voluntarily adopted policies which seek to increase recruitment of racial minorities.[12] Outreach campaigns, targeted recruitment, employee and management development, and employee support programs are examples of affirmative action in employment.[13

When i applied to school the quotas were in full force meaning that they purposely excluded white people that were more or equally qualified as other applicants just because they were white and that was the reason cited in your rejection letter

Yep, sorry but I have to disagree with your interpretation of the law.
Just because an organization is actively recruiting to target specific demographics does not mean that they are required to reject anyone that falls outside of that group. If you think that every white male who applied to your institution of choice was rejected you are mistaken.
And yes, they would be breaking the law if they rejected you because of your race. While it is legal to recruit based upon race it is illegal to reject based upon the same criteria. Those minorities had better grades and test scores than you.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Yep, sorry but I have to disagree with your interpretation of the law.
Just because an organization is actively recruiting to target specific demographics does not mean that they are required to reject anyone that falls outside of that group. If you think that every white male who applied to your institution of choice was rejected you are mistaken.
And yes, they would be breaking the law if they rejected you because of your race. While it is legal to recruit based upon race it is illegal to reject based upon the same criteria. Those minorities had better grades and test scores than you.

The use of quotas is different then active recruiting or policies that promote diversity in schools and the workforce, i have no issue with the way affirmative action is designed now, but at its inception it was reverse racism which is why the mandated quota's were eventually deemed unconstitutional. What you dont seem to get is they did not break any laws cause they were protected under the original premise of the law that allowed for these quotas until they ended them.

One thing you are right about is it would be illegal for them to send a rejection letter like that out today or the day after the supreme court abolished that part of the law, but when it was still in effect they sure did use that exact wording.

 

[Sassafras]

yes it was in writing i did not meet the demographics of the types of students they were looking for- just a nicer way of saying my skin tone. And no they did not break the law then because of affirmative action. My GPA and extracurricular activities were not the problem

Affirmative action in the United States is a set of laws, policies, guidelines, and administrative practices "intended to end and correct the effects of a specific form of discrimination"[1] that include government-mandated, government-approved, and voluntary private programs. The programs tend to focus on access to education and employment, granting special consideration to historically excluded groups, specifically racial minorities or women.[1][2] The impetus toward affirmative action is redressing the disadvantages[3][4][5][6][7] associated with past and present discrimination.[8] Further impetus is a desire to ensure public institutions, such as universities, hospitals, and police forces, are more representative of the populations they serve.[9]

In the United States, affirmative action included the use of racial quotas until the Supreme Court ruled that quotas were unconstitutional.[10] Affirmative action currently tends to emphasize not specific quotas but rather "targeted goals" to address past discrimination in a particular institution or in broader society through "good-faith efforts ... to identify, select, and train potentially qualified minorities and women."[1][11] For example, many higher education institutions have voluntarily adopted policies which seek to increase recruitment of racial minorities.[12] Outreach campaigns, targeted recruitment, employee and management development, and employee support programs are examples of affirmative action in employment.[13

When i applied to school the quotas were in full force meaning that they purposely excluded white people were more or equally qualified as other applicants

This is also true, I had relatives denied financial aid but at the time anyway being black or hispanic or even female seemed to be a real advantage. Like, if you were a minority with good grades.

Fast forward and it's always weird to me that none of this ever gets brought out with all the inequality discussions, because a lot of stuff to "balance the scales" has been going on for a while.

It's also going on now in the Fed government anyway. Just another thing that makes me hard to take Sam's financial issues seriously; he had a pretty nice place in TWS and was jogging in DC $$$$; so he must've been making good money and probably had a retirement fund he could've borrowed from (that was gathering interest all the time he was dusted). IMO the showrunners really shouldn't have used Sam Wilson as a symbol for a struggling black family, it makes NO sense. Not that that entire backstory couldn't have been skipped for the most part IMO; and switched out for something like Sam spending time helping repair houses in New Orleans and getting Bucky to assist; as there's still a lot of Katrina damage. And then there could have been something interesting like a bar fight.

 

[jye4ever]

I think they spent way too much time on issues/characters that no one cares about while rushing through what could have been a gold mine of a story with Walker taking over the role and his subsequent decent into homicidal madness with his moral compass and ultimately buddy Lemar could only watch while being powerless to stop it. Flag Smasher should have been a singular character who was a buff badass with a cool costume instead of the stupid characters that we got instead.

Having Zemo right there but wasting his charisma and Batroc also present while wasting his fighting abilities just added salt to the wound.

You mean Batroc being brought in the 2nd to the last episode just to deliver a suit case was a waste of an expert martial artists stunt man actor.

Could it be that we just don?t appreciate all of the nuances involved with delivering packages lol

 

[Khev]

You mean Batroc being brought in the 2nd to the last episode just to deliver a suit case was a waste of an expert martial artists stunt man actor.

Could it be that we just don?t appreciate all of the nuances involved with delivering packages lol

The original non-MMA guy that they cast kept dropping the suitcase so they finally said screw it and called in an expert, lol.

 

[Sassafras]

You mean Batroc being brought in the 2nd to the last episode just to deliver a suit case was a waste of an expert martial artists stunt man actor.

Could it be that we just don?t appreciate all of the nuances involved with delivering packages lol

Well, clearly there are too many insensitive clods who don't get that Batroc is a symbol for the underprivileged and underrepresented
who work for the white devil Jeff Bezos; and his deep anger at Falcon is really symbolic of the rage the French feel at McDonald's - who
dared to try to open in Paris. Sam Wilson is therefore a symbol of American oppression.

C'est horrifique!

 

[jye4ever]

The original non-MMA guy that they cast kept dropping the suitcase so they finally said screw it and called in an expert, lol.

holy crap

Disney just rehired Gina Carano for a crucial exciting flashback scene as an Alderaan Postal Service cashier during rush hour!

Well, clearly there are too many insensitive clods who don't get that Batroc is a symbol for the underprivileged and underrepresented
who work for the white devil Jeff Bezos; and his deep anger at Falcon is really symbolic of the rage the French feel at McDonald's - who
dared to try to open in Paris. Sam Wilson is therefore a symbol of American oppression.

C'est horrifique!

This can only come from you lol

 

[The Buffinator]

I think they spent way too much time on issues/characters that no one cares about while rushing through what could have been a gold mine of a story with Walker taking over the role and his subsequent decent into homicidal madness with his moral compass and ultimately buddy Lemar could only watch while being powerless to stop it. Flag Smasher should have been a singular character who was a buff badass with a cool costume instead of the stupid characters that we got instead.

Having Zemo right there but wasting his charisma and Batroc also present while wasting his fighting abilities just added salt to the wound.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with this take. While I'm all for cool costumed characters (they make great action figures!), I love the fact that the FS exist as a direct consequence of the blip and bringing back half the world's population in the blink of an eye. Too many bad guys are motivated only by a thirst for power or some all-too-familiar issue of previous abuse (whether it be real or perceived). MCU Phase 4 continues to build directly from the results of Phase 3, and they're doing it in a creative way.

You mean Batroc being brought in the 2nd to the last episode just to deliver a suit case was a waste of an expert martial artists stunt man actor.

Could it be that we just don?t appreciate all of the nuances involved with delivering packages lol

Hey, Batroc was in episode 1 as well - did you forget? And maybe he only moonlights as an expert martial artists stunt man actor - maybe his day job is with FedEx.

 

[jye4ever]

 

[Khev]

holy crap

Disney just rehired Gina Carano for a crucial exciting flashback scene as an Alderaan Postal Service cashier during rush hour!

Sorry

Apology accepted!

but I completely disagree with this take. While I'm all for cool costumed characters (they make great action figures!), I love the fact that the FS exist as a direct consequence of the blip and bringing back half the world's population in the blink of an eye. Too many bad guys are motivated only by a thirst for power or some all-too-familiar issue of previous abuse (whether it be real or perceived). MCU Phase 4 continues to build directly from the results of Phase 3, and they're doing it in a creative way.

Then they should have called the show "Regular Mamby Pambies Deal with the Blip." Don't take an established supervillain and reduce him to a pack of whiny kids in street clothes. What's next the Loki show features a group of disgruntled insurance salesmen called the Magnetos, lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Apology accepted!





Then they should have called the show "Regular Mamby Pambies Deal with the Blip." Don't take an established supervillain and reduce him to a pack of whiny kids in street clothes. What's next the Loki show features a group of disgruntled insurance salesmen called the Magnetos, lol.

With Michael Myers masks lol

 

[Wor-Gar]

Whoa.... Batroc just delivered my DoorDash order!!! Awesome!