MARVEL' S Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[TheDucky]

How can we have so many grow man who plays with political action figures but can't comprehend that everything is politics.

Lets not forget that Captain America and Superman were created by Jews as a political stand against facism.
Superman is even more explicit than Cap as he was originally conceived as Jewish (his dark hair and his Hebrew sounding birthname Kal-El, were intentional). His exploits were instinctively anti-fascist (he fought them in World War II and was even used in an effort to expose the evils of the Ku Klux Klan via a radio show in the 1940s).

Probably because fighting Nazis and stopping genocide isn’t all that political for most people now.

 

[jye4ever]

 

[ironwez20]

That reminds me does marvel have the rights to pippy long stocking?

I liked the modern take they did for her in falcon and winter soldier but I?m sad they killed her off.

She didn?t even get the stockings

 

[matticus]

What do you mean ?no one wants this in Marvel shows??
I must have missed the vote when you were appointed to speak for what I want in Marvel shows.
I want it in Marvel shows. It was exactly what I wanted in Marvel shows.
?Everyone? can?t be pissed off because that ?everyone? would include me and once again, I was not pissed off.
Some people want to turn their brains off and watch people with super powers fight, some people like a little more depth in their super hero shows.
Guess we won this round because that?s what they gave us.
Guess you?ll have to start looking for new ways to be entertained.

You did miss the vote. I was elected by the people as to what is good and what isn't good in all Marvel movies. Last I checked the switch on my brain, it was in the "ON" position. Looking forward to the abortion issue in Ms. Marvel.

 

[jal76]

You did miss the vote. I was elected by the people as to what is good and what isn't good in all Marvel movies. Last I checked the switch on my brain, it was in the "ON" position. Looking forward to the abortion issue in Ms. Marvel.

Sounds like you get to decide what?s good to YOU and nobody else, like the rest of us.
So I?ll continue to enjoy Falcon and Winter Soldier and cancel out your dislike for it.
Marvel wins, they get to keep making movies and TV shows, because for everyone like you that they lose they gain someone like me, and everyone?s happy.
Hopefully they do decide to tackle abortion and other feminist concerns in Ms. Marvel, I?d love to see their take on them!

 

[matticus]

Sounds like you get to decide what?s good to YOU and nobody else, like the rest of us.
So I?ll continue to enjoy Falcon and Winter Soldier and cancel out your dislike for it.
Marvel wins, they get to keep making movies and TV shows, because for everyone like you that they lose they gain someone like me, and everyone?s happy.
Hopefully they do decide to tackle abortion and other feminist concerns in Ms. Marvel, I?d love to see their take on them!

So now you decide what is happy for everyone. Funny how that works.

 

[JAWS]

Nah, it?s not political.
Politics is whether or not a flat or progressive tax plan should be adopted. Black people having to fear harm coming to them because of the color of their skin has nothing to do with politics.
Still trying to get my head around what metrics you are using to determine how members of a minority group should feel about how far the country has come for them?
Have you ever asked a black person how they feel things are going for them in this country? Have you asked them how much time they spend worrying about the effects of racism on themselves and their children?
This show clearly forced a lot of people to face some uncomfortable truths about how black Americans feel about their role in this country and some are dismissing it as false because it?s easier to swallow that way.

Well if anyone black or white cant see how far we have come I would tell them to open up a history book. Its better now.. Not perfect but better.

I have talked to black people about this subject. I have members of the family that are black.. You would be surprised by some of the answers.


You can say its not political but there is more to politics then just Taxes.

There is also the little bit about having feelings but that does not mean those feelings are correct if the facts don't back them.

Lets take the hot button topic of today. Unarmed Blacks being shot by cops.

The narrative by politicians and the media is that cops are singling out black people and shooting them. Never mind the fact that it is just not the case. They say it anyways and show every video they can... But Statistics dont back it up. Media chooses what to cover and politicians make their talk points for votes regardless of the facts.

I can dig up stats about police shooting and the race that gets shot. I can show examples of other races being shot while unarmed and how the media does not cover it.. Hell there was even a young white man that was killed while handcuffed because a police officer had his knee on his back and all 4 officers got off without punishment. Hard to find those stories on the news or politicians talk about those events.. Why?? Its does not push their narrative.

So yeah I don't blame Black people for being freaked out about cops and white america.. Its what we all hear all the time... All you see on the news is black's being shot.. No whites being shot.. Just the blacks.. So instead of a possible police problem.. All we hear is we have a racist police problem and a systemic race issue and then you end up with a summer of cities burning.

So hearing Sam and the writer tell their narrative in such an awkward way it seems more agenda driven then anything else.. I mean lets face it.. Disney has a track record for it.

Now they may and can still feel that way.. Who am I to say.. Perhaps it was not agenda driven and its how they feel.. I did not walk in their shoes and lived their lives. So fine.. How about this.. Their feelings and the shows writing made for some ****** TV. I was onboard with most of it.. But the speech.. My God the Speech... I can turn on MSNBC any given night and hear the same thing delivered just as badly.

 

[JAWS]

The show is trying to make people understand certain view points. That?s all really. For a lot of minorities America doesn?t represent them and they feel like they don?t belong. It?s a love hate relationship really. Nobody is trying to replace anyone just show how the man felt when he helped his country. He felt betrayed and just wanted to be acknowledge not be touted as a hero.

This is just real stuff. Just the other day I read a Spider-Man comic from the 60s and black man got up in Norman osborns face and argued with him about the exact stuff we are talking about today. This is really nothing new.

The thing is people on Twitter and other places stoke the fire and act like if you don?t say a certain thing then you should go to hell. And white men are all evil. Or all men ****. So it?s a huge back and forth.

But racial injustice is still happening and should be talked about. I know for some of you it?s not what you?d like to see in your media.

There is just a way to tell that story that works.. For me it was the delivery. And only the delivery at the end. I liked Isiah's story and I liked the bringing up tat Sam might struggle with that shield because of the color of his skin.. Nothing in the MCU led me to believe he would feel that way but it was an interesting take for sure.

Just that Speech man.. Awful, corny, and preachy.

Probably could have forgave it if the rest of the show was better

 

[JAWS]

Well, maybe. Except I'd argue, again, it's insulting to think that from at least pre-teen on up, especially this past year, that the history of various wrongs, and even rights, hasn't been delivered 24/7; from classrooms to media...

And that groups of peoples' experiences is gonna vary where they live; in the urban area where I live, yes, indeed, there are many poor people of all races. But there are also many well-off people of many races; got a black neighbor (out of many) who regularly changes cars every few years or so; and it's always for a new Lexus and like that. He's a hard working man; earns what he buys. Lots of minorities with Mcmansions and so on.

So, depending on where you are, folks raging about certain issues doesn't compute. It's more like, what? Like a lot of OUR bank officials are black, Hispanic, Indian...the head of my local post office is Asian...I'd feel stupid asking someone who owns a McMansion how they feel about how the country is treating them. Yeah, there's racism, black/white and reverse; but it's hardly the norm. Mostly it's people working brutally long hours and commutes. Because that's how it was in my region, before Covid. Yep, there's poor areas. Lots of well-off too.

(U could, also with justification, ask taxpayers how they feel about pouring millions into the war on poverty, Section-8 and food programs, and so on, and then have to listen to some of the stuff said, like none of that counted. Or like, the bosses who can't fire people who are terrible workers, because they'd get hit with a lawsuit and/or labelled racist, etc.)

So using a comic book movie to once again, badger people about issues they already know about is a mistake (especially because we were already there with Black Panther - been there, done that). You're either preaching to people who seem to love this kind of thing 24/7 (and often get on social media to overshare their own opinions or cry or drone on) or irritating people like me who have certain expectations when a showrunner has classic characters put in their hands to look after, and will just tune out.

IMO, folks wanna fix problems - and IMO laughably Cap's speech at the end is a perfect example - u wanna fix problems, do it. Quit talking and protesting and do the work - pick up a hammer and join Habitat for Humanity, build a community garden in an area of food deserts, clean up the garbage and repaint some person's house in an urban area, etc. Spellman & co. should've tried that; maybe then they'd get why Cap's speech was so lame And you're not gonna win hearts and minds with BAD WRITING.

Do, or do not. There is no try.

Sir Charles has the answers...

Charles Barkley calls out politicians for dividing country on race (msn.com)

?I think most white people and black people are great people,? Barkley said. ?I really believe that in my heart, but I think our system is set up where our politicians ? whether they?re Republicans or Democrats ? are designed to make us not like each other so they can keep their grasp of money and power. They divide then conquer.?

 

[JAWS]

Good points.

Maybe it's as simple as coming down to the writers/director/editing, which IMO can make or break a production.

Politics more or less have always been part of the MCU.

New writers, new showrunner; not my thing. Based on comments on YT and other places, plenty of folks like the series (one comment I read said the series was "masterfully done"). For myself, just because there's show about a favorite character doesn't mean it's good by default.

Endgame Ruined Hulk and it had nothing to do with Politics

 

[Drawbak]

The narrative by politicians and the media is that cops are singling out black people and shooting them. Never mind the fact that it is just not the case. They say it anyways and show every video they can... But Statistics dont back it up.

Between 2013 and 2020, police shot and killed Black people at a rate of 6.6 per million. They killed white people at a rate of 2.5 per million.

 

[JAWS]

Between 2013 and 2020, police shot and killed Black people at a rate of 6.6 per million. They killed white people at a rate of 2.5 per million.

First let me say this.. This is also not a OMG white people have it so bad boo hoo... I hate that argument.. We should always stand up and fight injustice when it is seen.

Now I was discussing Unarmed shootings and you have to ask yourself who is behind more of the violent crime and resisting arrests per million.


But Blacks being shot unarmed by racist police is a media driven story and not one by facts. Hell the case of the cop that killed George Floyd... Never once did they mention that racism was behind the officers intent.. I still have not seen any proof of that. But here we are. Billions in damages later.


Again I am not saying it doesn't happen... I am sure there are examples out there. But its not all racism. Not even close. But the media and politicians love to paint it that why dont they?

If I wanted to go by the numbers then why with less blacks in America are more white people killed by blacks then blacks killed by whites.. To listen to the news I would think it was quiet the opposite. Interesting article about how people have used that state the wrong way but the numbers are still skewed one way. (Note this is from 2015 so the numbers may have changed I will have to look)

Race and Homicide in America, by the Numbers | National News | US News

I am not saying that this means blacks are racist or anything of the like (obviously this has more to do with the black community making up more of the urban / poor communities then whites) . Just a bit perplexed by the whole media narrative of what this present day country is all about.

But we are far from perfect and we should always strive to be better.



No way my last five posts dont get removed.

 

[jal76]

So now you decide what is happy for everyone. Funny how that works.

Nope, not sure why you?re having such a hard time with this. Just myself and drawing a correlation between myself and the other people who enjoy the show.
Kind of like how when you know that 10 other people are all fans of a sports team, team wins you can safely assume that the 10 other people are more than likely happy and not sad about it.
Simple stuff, right?

 

[jal76]

First let me say this.. This is also not a OMG white people have it so bad boo hoo... I hate that argument.. We should always stand up and fight injustice when it is seen.

Now I was discussing Unarmed shootings and you have to ask yourself who is behind more of the violent crime and resisting arrests per million.


But Blacks being shot unarmed by racist police is a media driven story and not one by facts. Hell the case of the cop that killed George Floyd... Never once did they mention that racism was behind the officers intent.. I still have not seen any proof of that. But here we are. Billions in damages later.


Again I am not saying it doesn't happen... I am sure there are examples out there. But its not all racism. Not even close. But the media and politicians love to paint it that why dont they?

If I wanted to go by the numbers then why with less blacks in America are more white people killed by blacks then blacks killed by whites.. To listen to the news I would think it was quiet the opposite. Interesting article about how people have used that state the wrong way but the numbers are still skewed one way.

Race and Homicide in America, by the Numbers | National News | US News

I am not saying that this means blacks are racist or anything of the like.. Just a bit perplexed by the whole media narrative of what this present day country is all about.

But we are far from perfect and we should always strive to be better.



No way my last five posts dont get cleared.

Wow, I thought you were smarter than this post.
Not mad, just disappointed.
Literally every word of this post is pure ignorance. I actually don?t even know where to start, so I?ll just say, turn off Fox News, speak to some people of color, and work to do better.

 

[guyver1]

Why is there nothing going on in May..Loki is June

 

[Sassafras]

First we are discussing Unarmed. 2nd you have to ask yourself who is behind more of the violent crime per million.


But Blacks being shot unarmed by racist police is a media driven story and not one by facts. Hell the case of the cop that killed George Floyd... Never once did they mention that racism was behind the officers intent.. I still have not seen any proof of that. But here we are. Billions in damages later.

Also it's crossed my mind that some of this rage over who has more stuff etc. is also a product of the media and the "me" decade or, as a black policeman arguing with a true moron white SJW said, the problem isn't racism, it's sin.

I liked that, not so much in the religious sense. But the sin of the media filling a couple of generations with a sense of entitlement; that unlike years ago, my relatives who took YEARS to move from poverty to middle class; forgetting discipline and how to save, that everyone is a winner and should have everything at 21.

Then u get smacked with reality.

 

[JAWS]

Wow, I thought you were smarter than this post.
Not mad, just disappointed.
Literally every word of this post is pure ignorance. I actually don?t even know where to start, so I?ll just say, turn off Fox News, speak to some people of color, and work to do better.

1st - 100% dont watch FOX news. 2nd.. What did write that was incorrect. 3rd.. I have talked to people of color. I have people of color in my family. I worked with inner city youth for 15 years and worked along side African Americans who have said things far more bluntly then I ever thought of saying about Black people. I find most, like all people have different takes, feelings, and experiences and cant be lumped into one group.


Non of this changes how bad that speech was on The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

 

[matticus]

Nope, not sure why you?re having such a hard time with this. Just myself and drawing a correlation between myself and the other people who enjoy the show.
Kind of like how when you know that 10 other people are all fans of a sports team, team wins you can safely assume that the 10 other people are more than likely happy and not sad about it.
Simple stuff, right?

So who's on first?

Wow, I thought you were smarter than this post.
Not mad, just disappointed.
Literally every word of this post is pure ignorance. I actually don?t even know where to start, so I?ll just say, turn off Fox News, speak to some people of color, and work to do better.

Yep, everything has to be in your favor, no diversity there. How about you turn off MSNBC?

 

[matticus]

Also it's crossed my mind that some of this rage over who has more stuff etc. is also a product of the media and the "me" decade or, as a black policeman arguing with a true moron white SJW said, the problem isn't racism, it's sin.

I liked that, not so much in the religious sense. But the sin of the media filling a couple of generations with a sense of entitlement; that unlike years ago, my relatives who took YEARS to move from poverty to middle class; forgetting discipline and how to save, that everyone is a winner and should have everything at 21.

Then u get smacked with reality.

Today's issue is economics, not race. Race is just politically driven hard by Dems, it is their base. Media likes the underdogs, it is a better story. Problem it, they distort reality instead of give all the facts. Said state of affairs. Just take care of your local community.

 

[jal76]

So who's on first?



Yep, everything has to be in your favor, no diversity there. How about you turn off MSNBC?

JAWS is a big boy, if he needs your help I?m sure he?ll let you know bud.
I may not be a fan of his last post, but you thinking he needs you to defend him when he is more than capable is pretty funny.