Media Metal Gear Solid Discussion Thread (NO FIGURES /CUSTOMS JUST GAMES) SPOILERS

[Snake Plissken]

What I'm saying is the series basically started like that, and evolved. Each game is different gameplay wise and story wise. I think it's unfair to judge the entire series on technically the 3rd (mgs1) and 4th (mgs2) games in the series. Especially when the 3rd is considered to be the best by the majority.

Almost every character in the series isn't really good or bad, but I don't think PW or TPP contradicts his character in anyway, and by the end of TPP I definitely felt like I got a glimpse of the twisted character we see in MG2.

Glimpse of the secret good guy. He used someone... who gives a ****, which is a far cry from any true villain of the series.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I think the point is up to MGS4 Big Boss was the big bad guy, no doubt.

MGS3 gave you a reason as to why he might turn out so bad, then every game after that back peddles that. That is a fundamental change in character and story.

 

[pturtle]

Yes they are all minor in the overall picture. Name me some big retcons in MGS1 that changed the entire structure, like say the ending of MGS4 did with the Big Boss reveal

The only moderately big one is when Solid Snake says that sometime before his death BB had told him that he was his father.

Finding out from the twin brother he never knew existed that he is a clone of the antagonist of the first 2 games is a pretty huge deal. Thats pretty major is you ask me.

Glimpse of the secret good guy. He used someone... who gives a ****, which is a far cry from any true villain of the series.

The whole series is based on manipulation and control, its what basically turns him to the dark side, and he ends up doing the same thing that was done to him for his own selfish reasons, I don’t see how that makes him a good guy. Besides, his ideals in general aren’t really good at all, even in PW.

 

[Snake Plissken]

And Venom apparently turns bad, but you're never given a reason why... just him with blood, looking horny.

 

[pturtle]

I’m still not sure if Venom is really Venom, but if I take the ending at face value, then its pretty obvious why he becomes bad.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Finding out from the twin brother he never knew existed that he is a clone of the antagonist of the first 2 games is pretty huge to me. Thats pretty major is you ask me.



The whole series is based on manipulation and control, its what basically turns him to the dark side, and he ends up doing the same thing that was done to him for his own selfish reasons, I don’t see how that makes him a good guy. Besides, his ideals in general aren’t really good at all, even in PW.

But he wanted to rid the world of the Cipher/Patriots... he never did anything for selfish reasons... it was always for the greater good. Using the Medic was a means to an end, and Medic wasn't even mad about it.

 

[pturtle]

But he wanted to rid the world of the Cipher/Patriots... he never did anything for selfish reasons... it was always for the greater good. Using the Medic was a means to an end, and Medic wasn't even mad about it.

He wants nothing but everlasting war so soldiers will always be needed, thats not a good guy to me. And by the end of the game he ends up plotting with the leader of The Patriots


And if you want to go by that, then Solidus was a great guy as well

It’s how they go about achieving their goal. Big Boss ends up betraying everyone to continue HIS plans.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

But it didn't change anything going forward, it just made them clones of Big Boss.

It's never stated in MG1&2 about Liquid or of Snakes heritage, although something big it didn't change the main fundamentals. Big Boss was still the same bad guy from the previous games and liquid goes on the confirm that. Liquid is out to carry on Big Boss' legacy, snake still did everything he did before nothing was changed other than them now being clones and Snake didn't know. if Liquid was in either of the first MG's and he didn't know about Big Boss but suddenly did in MGS1 and was supposed to have known all along then that would undermine what came before it.

it's not like making BB a secret misunderstood grey area guy, or making Huey an Otacon clone (not literally) but X amount of years earlier. MGS1 doesn't undermime MG1 or 2.

If anything MGS3 had way more undermining content than both MGS1 & 2.

Finding out from the twin brother he never knew existed that he is a clone of the antagonist of the first 2 games is pretty huge to me. Thats pretty major is you ask me.



The whole series is based on manipulation and control, its what basically turns him to the dark side, and he ends up doing the same thing that was done to him for his own selfish reasons, I don’t see how that makes him a good guy. Besides, his ideals in general aren’t really good at all, even in PW.

 

[Snake Plissken]

It's been known for years Solidus is a good guy... I never stated different.

 

[pturtle]

But it didn't change anything going forward, it just made them clones of Big Boss.

It's never stated in MG1&2 about Liquid or of Snakes heritage, although something big it didn't change the main fundamentals. Big Boss was still the same bad guy from the previous games and liquid goes on the confirm that. Liquid is out to carry on Big Boss' legacy, snake still did everything he did before nothing was changed other than them now being clones and Snake didn't know. if Liquid was in either of the first MG's and he didn't know about Big Boss but suddenly did in MGS1 and was supposed to have known all along then that would undermine what came before it.

it's not like making BB a secret misunderstood grey area guy, or making Huey an Otacon clone (not literally) but X amount of years earlier. MGS1 doesn't undermime MG1 or 2.

If anything MGS3 had way more undermining content than both MGS1 & 2.

Oh okay, i thought were specifically talking about retcons here. I agree that MGS3 and 4 definitely change some character motives but I don't see why that's a bad thing. Finding out Ocelot was basically the hero of the series was a great twist to me, and it doesn't necessarily undermine anything from previous games, just gives a new perspective.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Ocelot is the most flip floppy character in the series... until TPP... where he's a comatose encyclopedia.

 

[pturtle]

It's been known for years Solidus is a good guy... I never stated different.

I would say anti-hero definitely not a good guy. And by this logic this would pretty much mean that MGS2 confirms Big Boss being a "good guy" as well.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I don't mind the Ocelot angle so much. I thought having the liquid arm was a bit of a cop out at first just to shoehorn liquid into MGS2 but in the MGS world it worked with all the other mad ****, but hes a better villain than as a secret agent i thought.

The sadistic nature of him in MGS1 and 2 was a better angle than the triple agent he became in MGS3 and then how he was pretending to be liquid in MGS4.

 

[Snake Plissken]

He should of just kept the arm, since the whole Sorrow thing gives it a legit reasoning for it since it wasn't just nanomachines.

 

[pturtle]

I always hated the dumb arm thing. I was happy that got retconned, bringing Liquid back in that way would have been a cop out.

I think MGS3 and 4 gave more depth to his character.

 

[Snake Plissken]

How does MGS4 give him depth, when he's playing a charade the whole time?

 

[pturtle]

How does MGS4 give him depth, when he's playing a charade the whole time?

I mean overall, not just that game.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I just don't like how he went from this cutthroat interrogator to Big Boss's little puppy dog.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

At the time of MGS2 i though tit was a cop-out too, but then with the revelation that he is the boss and the sorrows son it makes it plausible in the mgs world.

I find it harder to believe ocelot tricked himself into believe he was liquid, as he has to be aware of what he's doing because he's the one that doing it.

 

[Snake Plissken]

At the time of MGS2 i though tit was a cop-out too, but then with the revelation that he is the boss and the sorrows son it makes it plausible in the mgs world.

I find it harder to believe ocelot tricked himself into believe he was liquid, as he has to be aware of what he's doing because he's the one that doing it.

I still can't believe he used that same bad plot device twice.