Media Metal Gear Solid Discussion Thread (NO FIGURES /CUSTOMS JUST GAMES) SPOILERS

[Snake Plissken]

I didn't tho.
My point was that despite being a DLC type and having much inferior (to ACII / ACR) story and narrative, "Brotherhood" was still a very good sandbox/open world game. When I look at MGasS 5 I see is something completely out of left field, something that doesn't belong in MG series at all.

It didn't need to be sandbox at all... but even going that route, it's got to be the most dull sandbox game in recent memory. I called it awhile ago, that it's just going to be a wasteland with nothing to do between horrible AI solder encampments. The soldiers in this might be the dumber than the Genome soldiers. You could literally be 10 feet in front of them, and they got to pull their flashlight out and still not see you.

 

[RIDDICK]

It didn't need to be sandbox at all.

For starters, it (and Portable Ops, and Piss Walker) didn't need to exist.
"Snake Eater" gave us more than enough of BB's background.

 

[Snake Plissken]

For starters, it (and Portable Ops, and Piss Walker) didn't need to exist.
"Snake Eater" gave us more than enough of BB's background.

Yeah, the three sequels were pretty redundant and really didn't offer the insight that MGS3 did. It set the tone of where he would go in life without telling you anything in between, and it didn't need to.

 

[pturtle]

None of the games in the series needed to exist after MG2. Most of us started out with MGS1 ( my favorite game of all time) which why we're probably blind to the fact that was the beginning of the plot holes and retcons the series is known for having.

And if we’re talking about ****** A.I., nothing tops Assassins Creed in that department.

 

[FSLAR]

And you're a very cool guy.

Why thank you :

Pretty that was just last year, with Unity and that Rogue

They are yearly now though yes

I would put ACRevelations over MGSV. and that was the start of the downward spiral for AC, took far less time produce, less money to make and was overall a better game

Yeah it really is where the series notably became worse, and just starting feeling different in a bad way. Brotherhood was still very fine for what it was.

I forgot about that Chronicles but that's not a proper installment like the rest is it, it's a 2.5D side scroller more akin to the indie type games.

And Liberation when released was for the vita only, only to get a console release 2 years later so that doesn't really apply.

The only year they released 2 full (proper) AC games was last year for Unity and Rogue.

Also this

None of the games in the series needed to exist after MG2. Most of us started out with MGS1 ( my favorite game of all time) which why we're probably blind to the fact that was the beginning of the plot holes and retcons the series is known for having.

And if we’re talking about ****** A.I., nothing tops Assassins Creed in that department.

Pretty much I almost feel Ubisoft did it for comedic purposes.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I think it's unfair to say the series should end with MG2, since the series had much more to say after that... plus a completely new revolutionary console was coming out a few years later. MGS1 refined the series, and in gaming in general. Kojima's tenior should of ended with MGS2... since he had nothing left to "say" after that.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Yeah MGS defined the franchise from there on in.

But the trilogy is where it should have ended. It caps enough of from MG to MGS2 to close with.

 

[pturtle]

I think it's unfair to say the series should end with MG2, since the series had much more to say after that... plus a completely new revolutionary console was coming out a few years later. MGS1 refined the series, and in gaming in general. Kojima's tenior should of ended with MGS2... since he had nothing left to "say" after that.

What more did the series have to say after MG2 story wise though? The series is pretty much a template for Kojima to tackle whatever idea, or theme he has at any given moment.


If you’re talking about the Kojima’s ideas on the technical and gameplay side then sure, but then you can say the same thing for almost every game in the series so far. Every main title Kojima tried to do something completely different from his the past game.


And lets be honest here, if Kojima had ended the series with MGS3 every single one of us in here would be begging for a sequel to MGS2. Hell, I see people begging for a Last of Us 2 when there is absolutely no need for it, and if that game comes out and doesn’t live up to expectations, I bet the same fans will be saying they should have never made a sequel even though they were begging for it.

 

[Snake Plissken]

What more did the series have to say after MG2 story wise though? The series is pretty much a template for Kojima to tackle whatever idea, or theme he has.


If you’re talking about the Kojima’s ideas on the technical and gameplay side then sure, but then you can say the same thing for almost every game in the series so far. Every main title Kojima tried to do something completely different from his the past game.


And lets be honest here, if Kojima had ended the series with MGS3 every single one of us in here would be begging for a sequel to MGS2. Hell, I see people begging for a Last of Us 2 when there is absolutely no need for it, and if that game comes out and doesn’t live up to expectations, I bet the same fans will be saying they should have never made a sequel even though they were begging for it.

MG1 and 2 didn't have any underlining themes like MGS1 and 2 did. The first two were all about nuclear deterrence and then fossil fuels. MGS1 dealt nukes, but as well as genetic fate, and not being controlled by genes... while MGS2 dealt with memories and the past, and not letting it determine who you are. MGS3 onward had no more of that. I know it's SCENE-SENSE-REVENGE... but there was nothing for the player to take away from it besides face value.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

People can say what they want but it doesn't mean anything. After 3 was where he started retconning and diluting everything (inc Big Boss and Solid Snake) so in terms of what came after, the perfect time would have been to end it with 3.

All the subsequent Big Boss games and to an extent MGS4 are filler, and changed the entire dynamic of the series overall for the worse. Some can debate the ending of 4 but it no doubt changed the ENTIRE character and story fundamentals.

Just because he could make more doesn't mean he should have and hindsight is a bittersweet thing.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Big Boss was never turned into the bad guy he was told to be, even with the ending in V.

 

[pturtle]

MG1 and 2 didn't have any underlining themes like MGS1 and 2 did. The first two were all about nuclear deterrence and then fossil fuels. MGS1 dealt nukes, but as well as genetic fate, and not being controlled by genes... while MGS2 dealt with memories and the past, and not letting it determine who you are. MGS3 onward had no more of that. I know it's SCENE-SENSE-REVENGE... but there was nothing for the player to take away from it besides face value.

You’re making my point, the original games didn’t deal with a heavy narrative with underlying themes and such, so why should Kojima have stopped at MGS2? Just because the next two games in the series are more straightforward epics? Each game in the series always tried doing something drastically different from the last. Also, MGS3 is considered the best game in the series by a majority of the gaming world and to me, that game had the most straightforward narrative of the series.

People can say what they want but it doesn't mean anything. After 3 was where he started retconning and diluting everything (inc Big Boss and Solid Snake) so in terms of what came after, the perfect time would have been to end it with 3.

All the subsequent Big Boss games and to an extent MGS4 are filler, and changed the entire dynamic of the series overall for the worse. Some can debate the ending of 4 but it no doubt changed the ENTIRE character and story fundamentals.

Just because he could make more doesn't mean he should have and hindsight is a bittersweet thing.

I have to disagree, MGS1 was really the beginning of the retconning and diluting, and MGS2 took it even further. I love the every game in the franchise, but retconning is pretty much a staple of the series.

Big Boss was never turned into the bad guy he was told to be, even with the ending in V.

he wasn’t a good guy in Peace Walker, and he certainly wasn’t a good guy in TPP.

 

[Kiva]

Why does Old Snake look nothing like Big Boss at the end of MGS4 when he is meant to be a clone?

 

[Frank Jaeger]

The retcons in MGS1 and 2 were nowhere near as influential on the story line progression and characters as the latter games though. It kept the fundamental from MG1 & 2 intact for the majority.

You’re making my point, the original games didn’t deal with a heavy narrative with underlying themes and such, so why should Kojima have stopped at MGS2? Just because the next two games in the series are more straightforward epics? Each game in the series always tried doing something drastically different from the last. Also, MGS3 is considered the best game in the series by a majority of the gaming world and to me, that game had the most straightforward narrative of the series.



I have to disagree, MGS1 was really the beginning of the retconning and diluting, and MGS2 took it even further. I love the every game in the franchise, but retconning is pretty much a staple of the series.




he wasn’t a good guy in Peace Walker, and he certainly wasn’t a good guy in TPP.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

He's not an 'exact' Big Boss clone, Solidus is

Why does Old Snake look nothing like Big Boss at the end of MGS4 when he is meant to be a clone?

 

[pturtle]

The retcons in MGS1 and 2 were nowhere near as influential on the story line progression and characters as the latter games though. It kept the fundamental from MG1 & 2 intact for the majority.

Really? MGS1 pretty much retcons the first two Metal Gears entirely and essentially defines Solid Snake’s arch for the rest of the series.

 

[Kiva]

He's not an 'exact' Big Boss clone, Solidus is

With us ordinary folk, you can see your mother and father in you ( usually ) but with Snake i see nothing. And being a clone even if not perfect should still bring more of a likeness than regular birthing.

Maybe Solid Snake is a clone of Venom. The surprise twist for MGS6

 

[Snake Plissken]

You’re making my point, the original games didn’t deal with a heavy narrative with underlying themes and such, so why should Kojima have stopped at MGS2? Just because the next two games in the series are more straightforward epics? Each game in the series always tried doing something drastically different from the last. Also, MGS3 is considered the best game in the series by a majority of the gaming world and to me, that game had the most straightforward narrative of the series.



I have to disagree, MGS1 was really the beginning of the retconning and diluting, and MGS2 took it even further. I love the every game in the franchise, but retconning is pretty much a staple of the series.




he wasn’t a good guy in Peace Walker, and he certainly wasn’t a good guy in TPP.

I already stated... the games after MGS2 just go through the motions... there's no meaning to them at all.

And he's neither good or bad in PW and V, but he's far from the villain he was portrayed as.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Yes they are all minor in the overall picture. Name me some big retcons in MGS1 that changed the entire structure, like say the ending of MGS4 did with the Big Boss reveal

The only moderately big one is when Solid Snake says that sometime before his death BB had told him that he was his father.

Really? MGS1 pretty much retcons the first two Metal Gears entirely and essentially defines Solid Snake’s arch for the rest of the series.

 

[pturtle]

I already stated... the games after MGS2 just go through the motions... there's no meaning to them at all.

And he's neither good or bad in PW and V, but he's far from the villain he was portrayed as.

What I'm saying is the series basically started like that, and evolved. Each game is different gameplay wise and story wise. I think it's unfair to judge the entire series on technically the 3rd (mgs1) and 4th (mgs2) games in the series. Especially when the 5th (Snake Eater) is considered to be the best by the majority.

Almost every character in the series isn't really good or bad, but I don't think PW or TPP contradicts his character in anyway, and by the end of TPP I definitely felt like I got a glimpse of the twisted character we see in MG2.