Media Metal Gear Solid Discussion Thread (NO FIGURES /CUSTOMS JUST GAMES) SPOILERS

[Kiva]

Im actually quite a fan of Venom... Medic Snake. Id prefer we played as THE Big Boss but at the same time for the last 17 or so years ( more if you go original MG's ) we have only played as Solid, Raiden and Naked. So it was nice to be somebody else. But the fact he is somebody else... but we play as him with his new identity of Big Boss does feel kind of cheap. It feels a bit thrown in at the last minute. Him receiving talks about Les Enfant Terribles, hm being a master of CQC, him being a super soldier, doing battles with Mantis and Volgins corpse is all pretty meaningless. They would mean something if it was THE Big Boss but it isnt.

I love the idea that we were just random guy, highly skilled who is taking the fall for the Real Big Boss but at the same time not knowing anything about him before the game really damages the character. I suppose it kinda fits the " Phantom " theme. Because for all intents and purposes we are playing as the Big Boss we know... but not really. We dont have any background on the actual guy we are playing as. So anything that happened in the game you cant help but attribute to The OG Big Boss.

But im still conflicted. I feel we could have played the entire game as the original and nothing would of changed. He went through enough **** in the game to warrant him finally breaking his morals and character and becoming twisted like we see right at the end.

I kinda feel like the twist of the Phantom was to make it clear that Big Boss was a good guy all along. He never turned bad, it was Venom.

And i will admit, i prefer Big Boss to Solid Snake alot. BUT that was because i thought he was a bad guy, that he wasnt perfect. That he was betrayed and put in so many ****** situations that he become the villain.

I still really like Big Boss. But now he almost feels hollow. I know alot of people see him as Solid Snake lite, i see it the other way around ( atleast in kayfabe ).

I think in Kojima using the 2nd main line game in a row to prove Big Boss was a real good guy this time he went to far, he took " the edge " off the Big Boss character and has made the last couple of Metal Gear games redundant. Because we always wanted to know how Big Boss got to where he did. What tipped him over the edge. Only to find out he didnt!

 

[Solidus]

@Solidus The medic was Big Boss' best soldier and threw himself in front of Big Boss to save him, so he wasn't that random. Did you mean that the medic didn't have the duality of both being the player and a fleshed out character like Raiden?

I'm not trying to be an apologist for the game. I know it's got a lot of problems and I understand if you or anyone is not fond of the game. I'm still on "new game hype" for my favorite series. I probably would have given the game the exact same rating as the critics if I was in that review boot camp, since I've never been able to play a game for so long in a short period of time, in my life. I would probably give it a 8/10 as of right now.

I don't think the Medic was interesting at all. There are many soldiers in MSF who could've risked their lives for Big Boss. Even when the Medical Facility became overrun with infection, there were soldiers who committed suicide to prevent it from spreading. The Medic just happened to be at the right place at the right time in Ground Zeroes - it could've been any soldier. In the grand scheme of things, I think his physical skills were irrelevant, since his muscles had atrophied from being in a coma in nine years. But, what made him like Big Boss, was Ocelot's psychological manipulation.

As for Raiden, he had his own troubling backstory as a child-soldier who was molded by Solidus. There was also parallel between him and Solid Snake, in which both of them were trying to separate themselves from their respected father figures. But, Raiden was his own person, even though he was used as a plot device for the player. Case in point: I'd want to see a spin-off with Raiden .

 

[Preshea]

That's something else that bothered me. In MGS 3, Volgin was just as evil as Skull Face. But, we were granted this epic fight scene at the end, where you fight Volgin hand-to-hand, and have to face him in the Shagohod. It really felt worthwhile that you were battling this evil man to the death, and bringing him to justice.

But, for Skull Face, there wasn't even a prompt to pull the trigger - just a cutscene .

Good points.
It wouldve added a lot more substance to him being the main antagonist and pturtle hit it on the head with the lack of a potential torture sequence.
I was expecting it in fact, and never got it. But I remember how oustanded I was with the Ocelot torture in MGS1... Mashing that button til you felt sore in your shoulder. Then Snake actually says "my arm hurts" pure magic!!

THAT game in this one's engine. Open world and this level of options and objective gameplay freedom!
Man I'd love to play that

 

[pturtle]

Pturtle, you said that he was one of your favorite villains. Who was your favorite?

Solidus is probably my favorite villain in the series. Who is yours?

The good thing about MGS 2, is that Raiden actually had an interesting backstory that made us care about him. The Medic, on the other hand, was just some random MSF soldier who became Big Boss' body-double at the drop of a dime. For the twist, I was expecting Big Boss to be in a dream state, or that he hallucinated an important chunk of the story. I wasn't expecting the "Big Boss" in the game to be a fake.

And yeah, the other characters were mishandled. I thought that Paz' ordeal in Ground Zeroes, was far too over-the-top. But, her supposed death, and the way she died in Ground Zeroes served a purpose for the whole "revenge" thing. Was it really necessary to bring her back from the dead after such a dramatic end? Also, Ocelot does nothing, but raise a dog, and give Big Boss advice over the radio (I refuse to call that thing a codec).

I will have to disagree on Quiet, because I don't think there was a logical motivation - AT ALL, for why she followed Medic Snake. A few weeks before Medic Snake captured her, she tried to kill him in the hospital, as a loyal soldier of XOF. But, for no reason at all, she ended up trusting, and loving Medic Snake? I mean, where did that come from? I don't buy the fact, that their relationship took over a year to develop, because when you weren't using her for missions she was locked away in her cell. And couldn't she have just spoken English to Big Boss at any time in the beginning and ended it?

I keep wondering why, Quiet couldn't have just gotten a pen and a notepad to warn Miller and Big Boss about the infection on Mother Base. Also, the pilot on Pequod should have known Morse Code from his training, so, Quiet could've just beeped in her position on the radio. In fact, she didn't have to talk at any time, when there were other ways to communicate.

As for Liquid, I really liked his cameo appearance. But, since we weren't actually playing as Big Boss, I felt like I was robbed of experiencing the true relationship dynamics between Liquid and Big Boss. The Third Child (Mantis) could've gotten his own backstory as well, even if it wasn't fleshed out. He appears and disappears at random, and then he's just gone completely . Wtf.

For the main characters, Miller's the only one I liked in this entire game. You could actually feel his anger and deliberation in every word he spoke. Whoever wrote his lines, did it very well.

I recommend doing the wandering MSF members side mission and going back to Paz, there's more to that story.

 

[Solidus]

Im actually quite a fan of Venom... Medic Snake. Id prefer we played as THE Big Boss but at the same time for the last 17 or so years ( more if you go original MG's ) we have only played as Solid, Raiden and Naked. So it was nice to be somebody else. But the fact he is somebody else... but we play as him with his new identity of Big Boss does feel kind of cheap. It feels a bit thrown in at the last minute. Him receiving talks about Les Enfant Terribles, hm being a master of CQC, him being a super soldier, doing battles with Mantis and Volgins corpse is all pretty meaningless. They would mean something if it was THE Big Boss but it isnt.

I love the idea that we were just random guy, highly skilled who is taking the fall for the Real Big Boss but at the same time not knowing anything about him before the game really damages the character. I suppose it kinda fits the " Phantom " theme. Because for all intents and purposes we are playing as the Big Boss we know... but not really. We dont have any background on the actual guy we are playing as. So anything that happened in the game you cant help but attribute to The OG Big Boss.

But im still conflicted. I feel we could have played the entire game as the original and nothing would of changed. He went through enough **** in the game to warrant him finally breaking his morals and character and becoming twisted like we see right at the end.

I kinda feel like the twist of the Phantom was to make it clear that Big Boss was a good guy all along. He never turned bad, it was Venom.

And i will admit, i prefer Big Boss to Solid Snake alot. BUT that was because i thought he was a bad guy, that he wasnt perfect. That he was betrayed and put in so many ****** situations that he become the villain.

I still really like Big Boss. But now he almost feels hollow. I know alot of people see him as Solid Snake lite, i see it the other way around ( atleast in kayfabe ).

I think in Kojima using the 2nd main line game in a row to prove Big Boss was a real good guy this time he went to far, he took " the edge " off the Big Boss character and has made the last couple of Metal Gear games redundant. Because we always wanted to know how Big Boss got to where he did. What tipped him over the edge. Only to find out he didnt!

For me, I don't think the game vindicated Big Boss in any way. I thought it made him evil. He basically used the entire hospital to shield his escape from XOF, and he didn't mind the fact that innocent people would have to be killed save himself. He also stripped the Medic of his identity, and turned him into a double. He didn't even give the man a choice.

I would like to see the evolution of Venom Snake, leading up to where he confronts Solid Snake in Operation Intrude N131. I think this game needs a follow up... but, sadly, we'll never see it.

Solidus is probably my favorite villain in the series.

You are much too kind!

 

[pturtle]

 

[Baneofdemon22]

I don't think the Medic was interesting at all. There are many soldiers in MSF who could've risked their lives for Big Boss. Even when the Medical Facility became overrun with infection, there were soldiers who committed suicide to prevent it from spreading. The Medic just happened to be at the right place at the right time in Ground Zeroes - it could've been any soldier. In the grand scheme of things, I think his physical skills were irrelevant, since his muscles had atrophied from being in a coma in nine years. But, what made him like Big Boss, was Ocelot's psychological manipulation.

As for Raiden, he had his own troubling backstory as a child-soldier who was molded by Solidus. There was also parallel between him and Solid Snake, in which both of them were trying to separate themselves from their respected father figures. But, Raiden was his own person, even though he was used as a plot device for the player. Case in point: I'd want to see a spin-off with Raiden .

Gotcha! I can get behind that. I was so excited when they first announced Rising, and it was going to be Raiden story between MGS2 and MGS4.

By the way, just so everyone knows, I love MGS2. I was just listing my complaints with the writing. I love everything with Solid Snake, the Patriots, Ocelot, and Solidus. I love the idea behind Raiden, but I had problems with the writing of his character until he meets up with Solid Snake at the end of the game. He's a great character though, and maybe I was just burnt out while playing it, since I already played it earlier in the year. There was one point when MGS2 almost beat MGS3 for me as my favorite when I played it last year, so I'm sure I'll love it all over again after I take a break from the series for a bit.

 

[Kiva]

For me, I don't think the game vindicated Big Boss in any way. I thought it made him evil. He basically used the entire hospital to shield his escape from XOF, and he didn't mind the fact that innocent people would have to be killed save himself. He also stripped the Medic of his identity, and turned him into a double. He didn't even give the man a choice.

Thats a valid point. But during the hospital escape sequence it isnt like he planned to use the other patients as a means to he himself to escape. It was just a consequence of the situation. But at this point i dont think he had any say in the matter did he? He had no mother base, Kaz was abducted and there was only Ocelot. So i dont really think that scenario incriminates him.

But robbing the Medic of his identity, the way you worded it like that does actually make me feel it was an evil move.

Fortunately for the Medic he seems quite happy to be in the shoes of Big Boss by the smirk we see.

 

[Baneofdemon22]

@pturtle Good choice! He used to be my favorite, but I think I have to go with Ocelot from MGS2.

 

[pturtle]

I don't think the Medic was interesting at all. There are many soldiers in MSF who could've risked their lives for Big Boss. Even when the Medical Facility became overrun with infection, there were soldiers who committed suicide to prevent it from spreading. The Medic just happened to be at the right place at the right time in Ground Zeroes - it could've been any soldier. In the grand scheme of things, I think his physical skills were irrelevant, since his muscles had atrophied from being in a coma in nine years. But, what made him like Big Boss, was Ocelot's psychological manipulation.

As for Raiden, he had his own troubling backstory as a child-soldier who was molded by Solidus. There was also parallel between him and Solid Snake, in which both of them were trying to separate themselves from their respected father figures. But, Raiden was his own person, even though he was used as a plot device for the player. Case in point: I'd want to see a spin-off with Raiden .

I don't think the medic was suppose to be interesting for several reasons, knowing nothing about his past is one of the parallels between he and Skullface, whoever the medic was died on that helicopter, Big Boss, Zero, and Ocelot pretty much took everything away from him, his face, voice, past, personality etc... Which makes Skullface the perfect rival for Venom. There situation is sort of similar to Liquid and Solid actually when you compare.

Also the lack of personality, and building the narrative around him is to help us feel more immersed within the character, his personality is on the battlefield where we control him.

I think the core story has a lot of depth, the overall narrative and how it was presented wasn't perfect though.

@pturtle Good choice! He used to be my favorite, but I think I have to go with Ocelot from MGS2.

Ocelot use to be my favorite, but I'm just not sure he's really a villain anymore

 

[Baneofdemon22]

That's a good point! I was going to say, if not him, then Gray Fox, but I guess that's the same deal then, huh? Okay, then I guess Solidus is my favorite!

Also, your explanation for Skullface makes everything make so much sense now! Thank you! I need to go back, so I can see that now. I read there are also scenes throughout the game with your avatar's reflection and Ocelot says "I guess you weren't cut out for Big Boss after all" when you die. Perhaps, that lack of background will make his scenes with Quiet and Diamond dog stronger as well.

 

[pturtle]

I wonder if there's more to unlock, or if Konami stripped some chapters to sell as dlc because people online found hidden files on PC with picture of the third chapter titled "Peace".

Also this was also found

https://youtu.be/yWFnuoiyYrA

There's been a lot of hints that there might be more story to come.

 

[Kiva]

I wonder if there's more to unlock, or if Konami stripped some chapters to sell as dlc because people online found hidden files on PC with picture of the third chapter titled "Peace".

Also this was also found

https://youtu.be/yWFnuoiyYrA

There's been a lot of hints that there might be more story to come.

The entire 3rd chapter of the game was cut. I dont think if they ever intended to release the missions in DLC form they would leak little bits and pieces here and there. Especially adding chapter 51 to the blu-ray in the collectors pack

 

[pturtle]

Yup, here's the pic of the third chapter



Some pretty trustworthy people on Twitter are hinting that there's a lot more of story to come, and that we could possibly be getting a total of 5 chapters.

I don't if it's true, but if it is that would be insane, if it's free of course

 

[Baneofdemon22]

If they don't come out, the "phantom pain" will have more even more meaning.

It's a bummer if the team isn't able to finish their game. I don't know what happened, but I would think Konami would want this to be the best game possible if they're continuing this series. One of the things I think fans love about the MGS games is that they're so polished, so it doesn't seem like this is how they wanted it to end. Too bad they weren't working under Sony. I don't understand why they're being so patient with those Team Ico guys since Naughty Dog has made at least 6 quality games in the time they took to make Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, plus they sold a lot more. They must really believe in the artistic merits of the "Last Guardian" because I don't see it selling like crazy.

 

[pturtle]

If they don't come out, the "phantom pain" will have more even more meaning.

It's a bummer if the team isn't able to finish their game. I don't know what happened, but I would think Konami would want this to be the best game possible if they're continuing this series. One of the things I think fans love about the MGS games is that they're so polished, so it doesn't seem like this is how they wanted it to end. Too bad they weren't working under Sony. I don't understand why they're being so patient with those Team Ico guys since Naughty Dog has made at least 6 quality games in the time they took to make 2, plus they sold a lot more. They must really believe in the artistic merits of the "Last Guardian" because I don't see it selling like crazy.

People are saying its part of Kojima’s plan, he’s been throwing hints on twitter, and one of the MGS community members have been dodging a lot of questions regarding it. It sounds pretty crazy, but to be honest, the whole reveal of MGS TPP and GZ were really unconventional and pretty damn crazy.

 

[Baneofdemon22]

By the way, thanks for pointing towards this Spoiler Section, Solidus!

 

[Baneofdemon22]

People are saying its part of Kojima’s plan, he’s been throwing hints on twitter, and one of the MGS community members have been dodging a lot of questions regarding it. It sounds pretty crazy, but to be honest, the whole reveal of MGS TPP and GZ were really unconventional and pretty damn crazy.

After MGS2, I believe anything!

Oh, I forgot to ask. Did "V" have more significance besides Victory, Venom, or it being a symbol of two lines converging at one point to reflect "we are Big Boss"? There seems like there's a lot of depth to this story that I missed.

 

[pturtle]

After MGS2, I believe anything!

Oh, I forgot to ask. Did "V" have more significance besides Victory, Venom, or it being a symbol of two lines converging at one point to reflect "we are Big Boss"? There seems like there's a lot of depth to this story that I missed.

The V has so many meanings in this game and Peace Walker

Off the top of my head, it of course relates to Venom, the number 5 (this being the 5th game), 5th Snake, and the peace sign also carries over from Peace Walker.

 

[Solidus]

Oh man, I forgot about the behind the scenes disk in the collector's edition. I'll have to check it out for Chapter 3 ending. Seems pretty crappy that it was just excluded from the game.