NFL Thread

[karamazov80]

Regarding the suspension, 6 games seems like a lot for something that never even went to court. I understand there is a questionably history, but Ben was never actually convicted of anything, was he?

Let me play devil's advocate and assume that the girl made it all up, because she knew people would take her seriously (because of his previous accusation) and she knew how much money he had. What if the first scenario was similar? What is Goodell's actual message here? I guess if you are an NFL player, you just can't go into bars, casinos, or clubs? Not that I care very much (I really don't), but it seems a bit much to suspend a guy that long with no hard evidence that he did anything wrong, beyond him putting himself in a situations where those accusations could be made.

 

[316what]

Regarding the suspension, 6 games seems like a lot for something that never even went to court. I understand there is a questionably history, but Ben was never actually convicted of anything, was he?

Let me play devil's advocate and assume that the girl made it all up, because she knew people would take her seriously (because of his previous accusation) and she knew how much money he had. What if the first scenario was similar? What is Goodell's actual message here? I guess if you are an NFL player, you just can't go into bars, casinos, or clubs? Not that I care very much (I really don't), but it seems a bit much to suspend a guy that long with no hard evidence that he did anything wrong, beyond him putting himself in a situations where those accusations could be made.

Pac Man was never convicted of anything either and he was suspended longer.

 

[karamazov80]

But I thought he was convicted of a felony when he was in college. Meaning there was clear proof of previous bad behavior. Maybe not. But beyond that, there were multiple witnesses to PacMan's behavior, right? With Ben, wasn't it just one or two people's word against a small handful of others? I think there is a distinction to be made for accusations behind closed doors and firing a gun in a crowded club or whatever.

 

[azurepred]

Goodell has nothing to do with the trade rumors, only the 4-6 game suspension.



If he pulls another "stupid stunt" he won't get traded, he'll get cut due to the 1 year suspension.

I know, thats what I meant.

Regarding the suspension, 6 games seems like a lot for something that never even went to court. I understand there is a questionably history, but Ben was never actually convicted of anything, was he?

Let me play devil's advocate and assume that the girl made it all up, because she knew people would take her seriously (because of his previous accusation) and she knew how much money he had. What if the first scenario was similar? What is Goodell's actual message here? I guess if you are an NFL player, you just can't go into bars, casinos, or clubs? Not that I care very much (I really don't), but it seems a bit much to suspend a guy that long with no hard evidence that he did anything wrong, beyond him putting himself in a situations where those accusations could be made.

Well if your going to go have casual sex with random chicks in a club, your putting yourself in a situation that could become a bad one. Its not like this guy just went to a club, sat down, had a couple drinks with friends and left. He continues to put himself in bad situations.

 

[316what]

But I thought he was convicted of a felony when he was in college. Meaning there was clear proof of previous bad behavior. Maybe not. But beyond that, there were multiple witnesses to PacMan's behavior, right? With Ben, wasn't it just one or two people's word against a small handful of others? I think there is a distinction to be made for accusations behind closed doors and firing a gun in a crowded club or whatever.

Felony vandalism in college which got him probation. Followed by:
Public Intoxication and disorderly conduct
Misdemeanor assault for spitting on a lady at a party (1 game suspension by Titans)
Charged with felony and misdemeanor obstruction of justice
Vegas night club incident: not the shooter and not positive criminal charges were formally filed; he was sued in civil court (suspended for 2007 season)
Scuffle with bodyguard (6 game suspension)

One real conviction out of all that: the felony vandalism in college.


There is a distinction to be made between Pac Man's behavior/accusations and Big Ben's behavior/accusations. Which is worse is a matter of opinion, but if both had been convicted, Big Ben's would carry a lot more jail time and federal registration.

 

[karamazov80]

Well if your going to go have casual sex with random chicks in a club, your putting yourself in a situation that could become a bad one. Its not like this guy just went to a club, sat down, had a couple drinks with friends and left. He continues to put himself in bad situations.

But where's the evidence that he had sex with random chicks against their will? If he did this in a crowded room, or if there was clear evidence of some other kind, I wouldn't disagree.

But what is a bad situation? Again, I'm playing devil's advocate, but it is completely possible that Ben did nothing wrong. I guess being in a club and doing things in a secluded area was an exercise in bad judgment. But when you start sanctioning players for things that happen without more than a couple witnesses, and with no criminal convictions, what kind of precedent are you setting?

Regarding 316's post, apart from crimes against children, I think rape is about as horrible a crime as there is. If Ben did what he is accused of, I would advocate castration and torture. But there has been no real evidence.

 

[Darth Cruel]

Regarding the suspension, 6 games seems like a lot for something that never even went to court. I understand there is a questionably history, but Ben was never actually convicted of anything, was he?

Let me play devil's advocate and assume that the girl made it all up, because she knew people would take her seriously (because of his previous accusation) and she knew how much money he had. What if the first scenario was similar? What is Goodell's actual message here? I guess if you are an NFL player, you just can't go into bars, casinos, or clubs? Not that I care very much (I really don't), but it seems a bit much to suspend a guy that long with no hard evidence that he did anything wrong, beyond him putting himself in a situations where those accusations could be made.

There is more to this than whether or not he assaulted the woman.

He has three major incidents on his sheet that all could and should have been avoided. He is continuosly putting himself in these situations and is not learning from his mistakes.

And in this most recent incident...the actions that CAN be proven are more than enough to warrant a suspension. It is proven fact that Ben effectively trapped this girl in the back area of this club. His body guards would not let her out, nor her friends in. It is fact that when she attempted to separate herself from Roethlisberger, he followed her. Just because the end complaint can not be proved...the behavior during the alleged incident was abismal. To exaggerate that Goodell's message is stating that NFL players should stay out of bars is kind of silly. But it damn sure should send the message that these other behaviors like having your body guards isolate you and a person who is so drunk that they can not make rational decisions for themselves from their friends who are trying to watch out for them is an absolutely legitimate message.

 

[karamazov80]

From my understanding, though, this is all information (bodyguard trapped the woman, would not let friends in, etc.) based on the accusations of the woman and her friends. How believable is the evidence when there is no objective source? I am not saying it didn't happen, but we just don't know.

Going back to the previous incidents, he drove his motorcycle without a helmet and was accused similarly by another woman at a casino, right? The helmet thing really only hurt himself, so stupid though it was, I don't see how that is a big deal. As for him being in places where bad things can possibly happen, I don't see Ben's clear, evidenced actions being something on the order of what you saw with, say, Pac-Man.

Again, assume the first woman's accusations were false, as well as the second woman and her friends. Should Ben have stayed away from nightclubs and casinos altogether on the off-chance that someone could make another accusation? I guess the answer is "yes," because you can lose your job because of it. But it would suck for him if it was all based on lies. And honestly, we just don't know.

 

[BadMoon]

The Chiefs took Berry!!!!!!

 

[Darth Madden]

Good job Seahawks.

 

[wofford29]

Falcons go with Sean Weatherspoon. He's good, but I think Jerry Hughes is better and would have prefered that pick.

 

[316what]

The Raiders shock the world and take a safe pick....first time in at least a decade.

We still need to do something about the OL in the later rounds.

 

[The Josh]

The Chiefs took Berry!!!!!!

HA! HA!

Falcons go with Sean Weatherspoon. He's good, but I think Jerry Hughes is better and would have prefered that pick.

Spoon is quite solid and a better player trust me. Got a chance to see Spoon play a lot.

 

[BadMoon]

HA! HA!



Spoon is quite solid and a better player trust me. Got a chance to see Spoon play a lot.

You shouldn't be laughing. LOL! I hate it when talent like his gets dumped on a crap ass team. It will be years until he gets to actually compete on a good roster.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I like Tebow...but I'm not really sure what the Broncos are thinking. They have 4 QBs and Tebow could easily have been gotten in the 2nd rd.

 

[BadMoon]

I like Tebow...but I'm not really sure what the Broncos are thinking. They have 4 QBs and Tebow could easily have been gotten in the 2nd rd.

Yeah that didn't make sense.

 

[karamazov80]

I guess McDaniel really liked the guy, but I agree that there was a fair chance Tebow would have lasted to their next pick. I'm all about having players with character on your team, but I wouldn't go over-board with it. This is taking nothing from Tebow's will to win, but the consensus is that he requires some serious work as a QB if he wants to make it in the NFL.

Saints got a cornerback I never heard of. Could have used a defensive lineman or linebacker, but we definitely need help in every aspect of our defense. I'm just thrilled they didn't go with a wide receiver again. I guess Williams and Payton want to try and reinforce what worked for them last year.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

I'm happy with the Chargers first pick of RB Ryan Mathews.

Now AJ Smith needs to address SD's other needs and we'll be good to go.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I'm happy with the Chargers first pick of RB Ryan Mathews.

Now AJ Smith needs to address SD's other needs and we'll be good to go.

we need a DT in round 2

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I like Tebow...but I'm not really sure what the Broncos are thinking. They have 4 QBs and Tebow could easily have been gotten in the 2nd rd.

wildcat

but they really did waste this 1st pick on him