NFL Thread

[user 1190]

Nope, that's all genetics.

https://www.manningface.com/

Peyton doesn't look confused nearly as often as Eli.

 

[wofford29]

I'm very vocal about thinking Matt Ryan is a very average QB in the league. I'd still take him over Eli though.

Career average seasonal stats...

Eli Manning
.579 winning percentage
3788 yards
25 touchdowns
17 interceptions
9 fumbles
58.4 completion percentage
82.1 QB rating

Matt Ryan:
.693 winning percentage
3559 yards
24 touchdowns
11 interceptions
5 fumbles
60.9 completion percentage
88.4 rating

 

[user 1190]

Pats scored by losing the game

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-...players-expenses-paid-vacation-163123418.html

That much better than a trip to Disneyworld

 

[Grenouille]

Tough loss and end to to a good season.

When I look back at this game I'm going to remember the missed opportunities and mistakes. Welker dropping what could have been a clincher, Ninkovich off-sides, Brady's safety, the Giants recovering all of their fumbles, Brady's stupid deep throw that got picked, and the 12 men on the field call that negated a fumble recovery.

I'm already looking forward to next season. They need to rebuild the secondary, get a true pass rusher, and deep threat. I believe Brady's window for a championship is the next 2-3 years if it's going to happen at all.

 

[DinoDB1975]

I'm going to go against the grain here and argue that Eli is an elite QB. Stats nothwithstanding, the fact of the matter is that he has led his team to two Superbowl victories in five seasons, and winning five elimination games this year.

How are we going to define "elite"? By stats such as win / loss record, passing yardage, QB rating, etc? Will a third Superbowl ring (should the Giants be so lucky) change the consensus on whether or not Eli should be considered "elite"?

If not considered "elite", we have to place Eli on the short list of "clutch" QBs that with the game on the line and time running out, you'd want running the offense.

 

[sprig0701]

All the arguments you make are all valid ones for Roethlisberger, but the majority of people laugh at the notion that he's elite. Look at when they started 5-0 and missed the play offs, or the numerous one-and-done play off appearances. I think he's lower end of top 10, around 8 or 9. Some QBs don't have his luxuries of a good receiving corp, good pass protection, elite pass rush and a very disciplined coach. Look at Cam Newton, shattered rookie QB records, but played on a horrible team.

 

[sprig0701]

Nope, that's all genetics.

https://www.manningface.com/

In all seriousness, it looks like they have very mild cases of that Treacher Collins Syndrome.

 

[wofford29]

I'm going to go against the grain here and argue that Eli is an elite QB. Stats nothwithstanding, the fact of the matter is that he has led his team to two Superbowl victories in five seasons, and winning five elimination games this year.

How are we going to define "elite"? By stats such as win / loss record, passing yardage, QB rating, etc? Will a third Superbowl ring (should the Giants be so lucky) change the consensus on whether or not Eli should be considered "elite"?

If not considered "elite", we have to place Eli on the short list of "clutch" QBs that with the game on the line and time running out, you'd want running the offense.

I don't think he's bad I would just put him in the Matt Ryan category. I would classify Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees as the only "elite" QBs in the game today. I think Eli is a good QB with a better team around him. I think if you take any other good QB and plug him in for Eli and you'd get the same result. I think the elite QBs I mentioned above cannot be replaced with the same results (i.e. Peyton Manning this year). People I'm sure will throw out the "oh but what about Matt Flynn" to which I say get ____ing serious. One game against the Lions at home doesn't prove ____ other than the Lions can't stop the pass as evidenced by everyone they played that could pass this year. Superbowls are cool but I don't factor them into any significant category unless I feel as though the QB was the reason they won (i.e. Peyton Manning again). I would take Dan Marino or Jim Kelly in their prime over Eli in his any day of the week.

 

[user 1190]

IMO there are 3 truly elite QBs
Brady
Brees
Manning , P (this is saying he will be what has has been in the past)

I would put Rogers somewhere in the middle right now

Then there is the next teir
Manning E
Rivers
Roethlisberger


After that there are some guys who show flashes but jury is still out like Staford,


Then you have serviceable QBs

Then you have Tebow

 

[DinoDB1975]

Sprig, how do you feel about the Steelers reportedly hiring Todd Haley as OC?

 

[Nitro]

Tough loss and end to to a good season.

When I look back at this game I'm going to remember the missed opportunities and mistakes. Welker dropping what could have been a clincher, Ninkovich off-sides, Brady's safety, the Giants recovering all of their fumbles, Brady's stupid deep throw that got picked, and the 12 men on the field call that negated a fumble recovery.

I'm already looking forward to next season. They need to rebuild the secondary, get a true pass rusher, and deep threat. I believe Brady's window for a championship is the next 2-3 years if it's going to happen at all.

 

[DinoDB1975]

I don't think he's bad I would just put him in the Matt Ryan category. I would classify Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees as the only "elite" QBs in the game today. I think Eli is a good QB with a better team around him. I think if you take any other good QB and plug him in for Eli and you'd get the same result. I think the elite QBs I mentioned above cannot be replaced with the same results (i.e. Peyton Manning this year). People I'm sure will throw out the "oh but what about Matt Flynn" to which I say get ____ing serious. One game against the Lions at home doesn't prove ____ other than the Lions can't stop the pass as evidenced by everyone they played that could pass this year. Superbowls are cool but I don't factor them into any significant category unless I feel as though the QB was the reason they won (i.e. Peyton Manning again). I would take Dan Marino or Jim Kelly in their prime over Eli in his any day of the week.

IMO there are 3 truly elite QBs
Brady
Brees
Manning , P (this is saying he will be what has has been in the past)
I would put Rogers somewhere in the middle right now

Then there is the next teir
Manning E
Rivers
Roethlisberger


After that there are some guys who show flashes but jury is still out like Staford,


Then you have serviceable QBs

Then you have Tebow

Oh, I totally agree with those assessments. I think Manning, Brady, and Brees are the only truly "elite" QBs. IMO, the next tier would consist of Rotheliesberger, Eli Manning, Rodgers and Phillip Rivers, with both Big Ben and Eli ahead of the other two on account of their two Superbowl rings. Yes, Rodgers had one of the most prolific seasons in NFL history, but I would take a wait and see approach with him to see how consistent he will be.

However, if either Eli or Ben win another ring (and it's not out of the question) despite not having the sparkling resume of either Peyton or Tom Brady statistics-wise, they'll each be tied with Brady and two ahead of Peyton, assuming (and it's a pretty fair assumption), that Peyton doesn't win another Super Bowl.

And Matt Flynn? One game a career does not make. See the following examples: Rob Johnson, Scott Mitchell. Big contracts after one or two good games.

 

[BuffyGirl]

That is pure hyperbole and hate. It wasn't bad at all. In fact I enjoyed it. Do I listen to Madonna? Nope. Do I understand why they don't select bands that I would like? Yep! IMO Prince was one of the best. This one was close. You can't throw Metallica up there to bang their heads for 10 minutes. It's about the show and entertainment.

MADONNA

I thought the Madonna show was cool. Cool stage and costumes. She almost fell off the stage, and she sung at least a couple of respectable songs. And whether she lip synced or not, at least whatever it was sounded good.

I too thought Madonna rocked.

 

[Centurion]

Pats really did have a shot in that last 60 sec, unfortunately brady couldnt connect with anyone, i blame the receivers.

Just like in 08 super bowl, it was a great game! i love it

You and Brady's wife are blaming the receivers.

 

[Grenouille]

You and Brady's wife are blaming the receivers.

It's tough to blame any one person when there were so many factors that went into the loss.

Obviously the biggest is Welker's drop on 2nd down late in the 4th. If he catches it, they have the ball on the Giant 20 with 4 minutes and clock still moving. Maybe the Giants don't see the ball again.

 

[sprig0701]

Sprig, how do you feel about the Steelers reportedly hiring Todd Haley as OC?

Haley has a gritty toughness that's been missing since Whisenhunt left. What Ben and that offense need is someone to pull him aside and dig in his rear end when he gets dumb with the ball. Sure, Ben's M O is extending plays and making something out of nothing, but when they played the Pats you really saw what that offense is capable of when sticking to a game plan. Take what's there, don't force throws and ain't nothing wrong with looking at your 4th option. Arians is a lot like Cam Cameron, predictable play calling and never seems to have a plan B, and you never see them digging in their QB's rear end when they need it (much like O'Brien did with Brady). Ben made Arians look way better than what he did, but that never should have been the case. Your QB is your field General, but the OC is the commanding officer.

I like the idea of Haley, he's decent when he only has half the team to worry about. He's not HC material. Let him stress in the film room behind closed doors and let Tomlin handle the media. That's a good deal.

 

[karamazov80]

I don't think he's bad I would just put him in the Matt Ryan category. I would classify Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees as the only "elite" QBs in the game today. I think Eli is a good QB with a better team around him. I think if you take any other good QB and plug him in for Eli and you'd get the same result.

I agree that Eli's not a top 5 QB, but I don't agree that you just plug in Matt Ryan and they win just as easily. Despite his modest stats in the regular season, Eli has the ability to win in clutch situations. In the 4th quarter this year, I don't think anyone was better. Winning when the season is on the line, winning in the playoffs, orchestrating a drive down the field in the 4th quarter with a few minutes in the game, down by a handful of points, putting your team ahead. Doing that consistently, it takes a better than average player. Yes, his team had a great defense, and that was the foundation of everything. But the Ravens had a great defense too, and a solid, game manager QB, and that wasn't enough. Before the latter part of this season, I felt the same way about Manning that you do, but he seemed to keep doing what his team needed him to do when it mattered most, so I put him up there as a very solid QB who has earned some serious respect right now.

Then you have Tebow

 

[JediMike71]

Glad you're having a great time!! Are you going to post pics when you get back

Yeah, I will post some pictures here, and I'll create a Super Bowl photo album on my facebook. We just flew back home tonight. What an incredible experience. We had such a great time! The people in Indianapolis were very friendly and helpful. Lots of volunteers there with the white and blue striped scarfs. Patriots and Giants fans pretty much got along. I didn't see any fights break out. We were at the very top terrace section on the Giants side of the field where we wanted to be anyway. We pulled for the Giants to win, and we were happy that they did.

 

[316what]

So, is Eli a legitimate "Elite QB" now? I say no. For as many good seasons as he's had with the Giants, he's had over twice as many bad ones to go with it. Like I said earlier, they got hot at the right time twice in the 8 seasons he's played there. I'll give him that's he's been cool under pressure in some big games, but there's no telling what you're going to see out of him from week-to-week more often than not.

All the people saying you have to consider him elite now for winning a 2nd Super Bowl, that would make the top QB list look like this;

1. Tom Brady- 3-2 Super Bowl record
2. Ben Roethlisberger- 2-1 Super Bowl record
3. Eli Manning- 2-0 Super Bowl record
4. Peyton Manning- 1-1 Super Bowl record
5. Drew Brees- 1-0 Super Bowl record (wins tie breaker with Rodgers due to better overall play off record)
6. Aaron Rodgers- 1-0 Super Bowl record

And ain't no "experts" out there want to put Ben above those QBs under him on that list.

By these stats, Jim Plunkett is more "elite" than Peyton, Brees and Rodgers.

I'm going to go against the grain here and argue that Eli is an elite QB. Stats nothwithstanding, the fact of the matter is that he has led his team to two Superbowl victories in five seasons, and winning five elimination games this year.

Jim Plunkett has similar stats and he can't even get consideration for the HoF. The only retired QB with 2 Super Bowl wins NOT in the HoF.

It's tough to blame any one person when there were so many factors that went into the loss.

Obviously the biggest is Welker's drop on 2nd down late in the 4th. If he catches it, they have the ball on the Giant 20 with 4 minutes and clock still moving. Maybe the Giants don't see the ball again.

I think you're confusing Welker's "drop" with Brady's horrible pass behind Welker.

 

[Grenouille]

I think you're confusing Welker's "drop" with Brady's horrible pass behind Welker.

Yeah, Brady's throw was not great, but that's a catch that Welker has routinely made over his NE career.