Noah

[CelticPredator]

 

[occulum]

thats hot. I hope Im instructed to tap that....

 

[BadMoon]

thats hot. I hope Im instructed to tap that....

From behind.

 

[RIDDICK]

Sin exists on earth to allow us to have free will...

 

[occulum]

.. exactly...

The main problem with Christianity IN MY OPINION is so many of it's followers' "faith" resides in fear of wrath and purgatory rather than in Love itself.
So many times when someone is doing something which is portrayed in the Bible as being wrong they are told they shouldn't because it's a sin and they will burn in hell or not get into heaven. Sadly the reason isn't because of the negative effects the action will have on others around them. Nope. Screw the people and the suffering it may cause. Its a problem because it goes against the God the Bible portrays.
Just look at how grounded in fear Dan Cathy's statement regarding same sex marriage is to prove the fear point a little.
Its hard not to buy into many theories about the Romans heavily editing and rewriting much of the original Bible in an effort to more easily control the masses. Its common sense to know that Fear controls much more effectively than Love. Many believe the original Bible is purely based in love and includes absolutely no hate, wrath, hell etc. You're blinding yourself to think for a second a MAN wouldn't manipulate a Book for the reward of controlling power. I mean of course no one within the church is sinful and would hurt those around them right??

The older I grow the more I realize this is the God / Jesus I know and love. The Jesus I know wouldn't stand with folded arms and guard the gates to Heaven directing me to accept his Father or else burn in hell, though I may be a pure person otherwise.
God gave me a brain. I assume he wants me to use it and wouldn't punish me for using it to question a Book written by OTHERS about His Word and how we should live. I'd like to think He may even Hi-5 me on the way through the gates. "Good job using the tools I gave you bro! Now here's the full, unedited story"

 

[thenammagazine]

The older I grow the more I realize this is the God / Jesus I know and love. The Jesus I know wouldn't stand with folded arms and guard the gates to Heaven directing me to accept his Father or else burn in hell, though I may be a pure person otherwise.
God gave me a brain. I assume he wants me to use it and wouldn't punish me for using it to question a Book written by OTHERS about His Word and how we should live. I'd like to think He may even Hi-5 me on the way through the gates. "Good job using the tools I gave you bro! Now here's the full, unedited story"

This is the point I reached YEARS ago.

 

[gdb]

.. exactly...

The main problem with Christianity IN MY OPINION is so many of it's followers' "faith" resides in fear of wrath and purgatory rather than in Love itself.
So many times when someone is doing something which is portrayed in the Bible as being wrong they are told they shouldn't because it's a sin and they will burn in hell or not get into heaven. Sadly the reason isn't because of the negative effects the action will have on others around them. Nope. Screw the people and the suffering it may cause. Its a problem because it goes against the God the Bible portrays.
Just look at how grounded in fear Dan Cathy's statement regarding same sex marriage is to prove the fear point a little.
Its hard not to buy into many theories about the Romans heavily editing and rewriting much of the original Bible in an effort to more easily control the masses. Its common sense to know that Fear controls much more effectively than Love. Many believe the original Bible is purely based in love and includes absolutely no hate, wrath, hell etc. You're blinding yourself to think for a second a MAN wouldn't manipulate a Book for the reward of controlling power. I mean of course no one within the church is sinful and would hurt those around them right??

The older I grow the more I realize this is the God / Jesus I know and love. The Jesus I know wouldn't stand with folded arms and guard the gates to Heaven directing me to accept his Father or else burn in hell, though I may be a pure person otherwise.
God gave me a brain. I assume he wants me to use it and wouldn't punish me for using it to question a Book written by OTHERS about His Word and how we should live. I'd like to think He may even Hi-5 me on the way through the gates. "Good job using the tools I gave you bro! Now here's the full, unedited story"

At the same time it's very possible that god or Jesus or Zeus or whoever is a metaphor for the human condition and words like sin and free will and fate are placeholder words for when philosophy and psychology and science can understand the universe more clearly than they did in the Bronze Age. In a way, religion is like the story of Stone Soup. People of all faiths get the same connection-to-a-higher-power no matter what rituals they practice or which gods (or in the case of Budhists, no god at all) they focus on. The pastor TELLS them that what they are feeling is supernatural and exclusive to his church. But since everyone can access that euphoria regardless of church affiliation and, indeed, without a supernatural pretext at all, what the church is really selling isn't theirs to sell. It's inherent to the human condition. Like Stone Soup, labeling the activity and putting a price tag on it is just another scam. I can get the same sence of wonder and peace watching a sunset or staring at the stars as churchgoers get sitting in their pews. Plus I don't have to tithe 10% of my income or vote against my own self interest. And since, as you pointed out, no loving god would punish a good man for NOT going to the exact right church, if I'm wrong, it's really no biggie.

 

[Maglor]

That's right,Man does not have a spiritual Free Will that chooses God on his own...Ephesians 2:1-5 affirms that (among many other Scripture passages)

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

People mix up "Free Will" with an actual Free Will that chooses God,which we do not have, because we are born spiritually dead.The only people to ever have TRUE Free Will was Adam and Eve,after Sin entered,man is born completely depraved,without God.

This somes up about the unbelieving...I Corinthians 2:14

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I see nothing in those verses (or any other) that says we are predestined.

Then by your flawed rational, God is not a just god and creates people he condemns to death for no other reason than to do just that. Hardly the loving, just God the Bible makes him out to be. If you spent as much time reading the Bible as you do taking its verses out of context to fit your slanted perspective, you'd have a better understanding of it.

I agree that the Bible states all born in sin, but as far as Christianity is concerned, people have the right to choose Jesus as their sacrifice (his blood spilled so that their sins could be forgiven) and be saved. That is the choice given to all. It's not predetermined and I firmly believe it's not the only path to paradise.

Man, who ever would have thought we would agree so much on this subject.

There is a section of Christendom that is so focused on the words "faith alone" that they are blind to all other aspects of scripture. As you (and Wofford) said earlier - one must choose to accept a free gift. And faith without works is dead.

 

[occulum]

back on the rails.... I CANT WAIT to see what Aronofsky does with this film ...

 

[teemu]

I see nothing in those verses (or any other) that says we are predestined.

those are Scriptures verses are referencing That God quickens a man first to Salvation...God does the saving,not you (we are Saved by GRACE,through Faith and NOT OF YOURSELVES)

God doesn't sits back like some begger and waiting in hope that someday you'll make the Right Decision (or choice) to choose God.

Now you want predestination verses? Romans 8:28-30

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-5

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

All you have to do is read your Bible and you'll discover these passages

Oh there is more Scripture too ....Unless you refuse to believe the Bible and what it teaches,you cannot argue Election...God Elects!

 

[Azrael23]

Nam,

Christ Himself said "I and my Father are ONE." Do u call Christ a liar and the Word of God false?

Not gonna argue back and forth, but if u have an understanding It's not hard to get. You either believe Christ is telling the truth or u think he's a liar. Same with the bible....u either think its truth or lies.

There is a third option that you may be disregarding. The likelihood
that you could be misconstruing the teachings of Christ to pander to
trinitarian theology. One question you should ask yourself is "how
exactly is Jesus one with the Father?". In the book of John, Christ
expounds on the unity of purpose with his Father. The same oneness
in purpose that he has with the Father is the same oneness he teaches his disciples to have.

John 17:20-23

"that they may all be one just as as You Father are in me and I in You.... that, they may be one, just as we also are one."

No,because you DENY the Trinity of God (God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit...God is a Triune Deity

Jesus was literal God in Flesh,while the Father was in Heaven...

which he gave his Son as the blood sacrifice for the believing

So... two distinct beings in two distinct locations both
existing co-currently are both equally God

 

[teemu]

How exactly was Jesus literally God in the flesh? Furthermore how can
you kill God? as scripture makes it abundantly clear Jesus was put to
death. If Jesus was literally God clothed in flesh then the only thing that died
was a shell, meaning Jesus never truly died.

Jesus was a sacrifice (in Blood) for the Sins of the Elect to be Saved..

Jesus didn't die,because he conquered death and rose again on the 3rd day and ascended into Heaven

I Corinthians 15:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Again, Jesus was the Son of God (God in Flesh) as of the 3 partisan Triune God- The Father,The Son,and Holy Spirit...All the same as ONE

 

[Batty]

back on the rails.... I CANT WAIT to see what Aronofsky does with this film ...

Wait. There's a movie?

 

[thenammagazine]

Teemu? KitFisto? Still waiting for the scripture backing your trinity belief.

 

[BadMoon]

Still waiting for God to show herself to validate any of your beliefs.

 

[isculpt]

You know, for a debate on religion, this has gone alot better than expected. Surprised this isn't locked yet. Anyway, this movie looks very interesting. Will patiently wait for the trailer.

 

[thenammagazine]

Still waiting for God to show herself to validate any of your beliefs.

Who said you had to believe it? You can worship fat dimples and Cheeze Whiz for all I care.

 

[BadMoon]

Who said you had to believe it? You can worship fat dimples and Cheeze Whiz for all I care.

But you DO care. For some reason you have spent pretty much all day trying to convince others how much you do. Good job.

 

[KitFisto]

Teemu? KitFisto? Still waiting for the scripture backing your trinity belief.

I guess you're to stupid to understand when I said I was not going to argue in circles with a non believer, but I guess someone with almost 45k posts won't shut up and let anything go, so this will be no different. I already told you to claim victory so you can feel better about yourself.

 

[thenammagazine]

But you DO care. For some reason you have spent pretty much all day trying to convince others how much you do. Good job.

I don't recall trying to convert people. Nor am I the one condemning people who don't believe in Christ. I just recall questioning the posts of people making some pretty broad claims and providing zero evidence to back it up. Case in point...

I guess you're to stupid to understand when I said I was not going to argue in circles with a non believer, but I guess someone with almost 45k posts won't shut up and let anything go, so this will be no different. I already told you to claim victory so you can feel better about yourself.

I'm not the stupid one here. You made a statement about my beliefs being in error, I provided scriptural evidence backing my claims and calling yours to question and requested you provide even the smallest Biblical proof to substantiate your claims. And what do you do? You make statements like "I'm not getting into this." and throw in personal insults. My guess is not because you don't want to provide evidence, it's because you can't and are hoping teemu comes to your rescue. Trust me when I say teemu would've already threadbombed with scriptures if he could find any to back your trinity beliefs.