Noah

[KitFisto]

And for the cheap seats.....Hebrews 1:8 the from Father "But of the Son He saith, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

So Christ is clearly called God. Deal with it.

 

[KitFisto]

I don't recall trying to convert people. Nor am I the one condemning people who don't believe in Christ. I just recall questioning the posts of people making some pretty broad claims and providing zero evidence to back it up. Case in point...



I'm not the stupid one here. You made a statement about my beliefs being in error, I provided scriptural evidence backing my claims and calling yours to question and requested you provide even the smallest Biblical proof to substantiate your claims. And what do you do? You make statements like "I'm not getting into this." and throw in personal insults. My guess is not because you don't want to provide evidence, it's because you can't and are hoping teemu comes to your rescue. Trust me when I say teemu would've already threadbombed with scriptures if he could find any to back your trinity beliefs.

I just gave you some. The issue is I've dealt with people like you before and I was over dealing with people like you on the web 5 years ago. You never shut up and you never let anything go, thus you "calling me out" hours after I said I'm not arguing with you. You have a need to be a big man on the net and show everyone how "right" you are about everything.

I gave you a scripture where Christ is clearly called God. There are many more that point to the deity of Christ, but I refuse to argue in circles with you. Have a nice life.

 

[thenammagazine]

And for the cheap seats.....Hebrews 1:8 the from Father "But of the Son He saith, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

You're using that verse out of context. The verse only implies that Jesus has his throne through the blessings of God:

The weight of the evidence indicates that it is Jehovah. According to the New World Translation, Hebrews 1:8 says: "But with reference to the Son: "God is your [the Son] throne forever and ever."" This shows that Jesus' throne, his office or authority as a sovereign, has its source in Jehovah the Almighty God. However, believers in the Trinity prefer the Authorized Version, or King James Version, which renders Hebrews 1:8 this way: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever." Thus, they feel that Jesus is shown to be the same as Almighty God. Why is this not correct? First, note the context. In many translations, either in the main text or in the margin, Hebrews 1:9 reads, "God, your God, anointed you." This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him. Secondly, it should be noted that Hebrews 1:8, 9 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6, 7, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Surely the writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God and neither did the writer of Hebrews think that Jesus was Almighty God. Commenting on this, scholar B. F. Westcott said: "It is scarcely possible that[Elohim,God]in the original can be addressed to the king. . . . Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is 'Thy kingdom is founded upon God.'" With good reason, therefore, the New World Translation and a number of other translations render Hebrews 1:8 as, "God is your throne." (See An American Translation, Moffatt; also the marginal reading in American Standard Version, Revised Standard Version and The New English Bible.) This makes it clear that the "Son," Jesus Christ, has a God who is higher than he is.

So then explain 1:9. If Jesus is God, why would he need to be anointed by God? Why wouldn't he just anoint himself? Why would he even need be anointed?

 

[KitFisto]

Nice quote, its wrong of course, but nice that you pull from an opinion piece to back your claims. Goodnight.

 

[teemu]

Trust me when I say teemu would've already threadbombed with scriptures if he could find any to back your trinity beliefs.

actually I don't really care,Because even if I provided Scripture,you won't read it anyway..

I gave you a link to a website that provides tons of Scripture and of course you ignored it like everything else...You have your own God and view of him,and that is expected from an unbeliever

 

[thenammagazine]

Nice quote, its wrong of course, but nice that you pull from an opinion piece to back your claims. Goodnight.

And there you go, running off because you can't explain it.

actually I don't really care,Because even if I provided Scripture,you won't read it anyway..

I gave you a link to a website that provides tons of Scripture and of course you ignored it like everything else...You have your own God and view of him,and that is expected from an unbeliever

You provided a link to a bunch of Bible verses used out of context. I could use the story of Adam and Eve to argue God approves of incest, since, per the Bible, the human race was founded on it. Or the story of Sampson to say if you grow your hair like a hippy, you get magical powers. Or the story of Noah to say that man's savior has to be a drunk. It's no different from what you're doing.

 

[karamazov80]

It doesn't but it will. People that don't believe will lack respect to those that believe and vice versa.

Close, but it looks like instead those who believe showed a lack of respect to others that also believe, but believe something slightly different. Tough to predict how religious-oriented threads will go sometimes, but they surely do all go down the toilet

So, uh, Russell Crowe. He's a convincing Middle Easterner I guess.

 

[KitFisto]

And there you go, running off because you can't explain it.

You actually believe that don't you?

Seriously, you need help. You honestly can't understand that I really don't care what false beliefs you have? It's beyond your understanding that I won't endlessly debate with someone who doesn't believe. You really don't understand why someone just doesn't want to post scripture after scripture or post a thousand links ( which I could ) that explain it all over and over.

Nam, I just don't care and don't want to argue about it. It's really that simple.

 

[thenammagazine]

You actually believe that don't you?

Seriously, you need help. You honestly can't understand that I really don't care what false beliefs you have? It's beyond your understanding that I won't endlessly debate with someone who doesn't believe. You really don't understand why someone just doesn't want to post scripture after scripture or post a thousand links ( which I could ) that explain it all over and over.

Nam, I just don't care and don't want to argue about it. It's really that simple.

Explain the need for Hebrews 1:9, if the verse you used to "back" your point proves Jesus is God. Stop the personal insults and evasive trolling and simply explain that.

 

[Azrael23]

And for the cheap seats.....Hebrews 1:8 the from Father "But of the Son He saith, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

So Christ is clearly called God. Deal with it.

It should also be noted that Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation of the Septuagint translation of Psalm 45:6 and there are many different interpretations as to whom this text is
referring to. Some believe David is being referenced, other believe it to be Messiah. So when trinitarians translate this particular passage their theological bias tends
to convey the idea that the Father is calling the Son, God when in reality the passage is showing readers that the Son has been exulted to the throne of God.

Jesus was a sacrifice (in Blood) for the Sins of the Elect to be Saved..

Jesus didn't die,because he conquered death and rose again on the 3rd day and ascended into Heaven

I Corinthians 15:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Again, Jesus was the Son of God (God in Flesh) as of the 3 partisan Triune God- The Father,The Son,and Holy Spirit...All the same as ONE

The Messiah did die Teemu. That was the whole point of the sacrifice. Of course
he later resurrected, but the Messiah did literally die. So that brings the question.
How does one kill God?

 

[KitFisto]

Explain the need for Hebrews 1:9, if the verse you used to "back" your point proves Jesus is God. Stop the personal insults and evasive trolling and simply explain that.

And Hebrews 10 continues with the Father still speaking of the Son

"And, you, Lord, in the beginning have laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of your hands:"

Really? Well, only God could do that.

Also earlier in Hebrews Angels are told to worship Him. So God has the angels of Heaven worshiping a false God?

It's 1am and I have to get up for work in 5 hours. I'm sure you'll say I'm running away, but as I have said, I'm sick of your endless attempts to prove a point you can't.

 

[thenammagazine]

And Hebrews 10 continues with the Father still speaking of the Son

"And, you, Lord, in the beginning have laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of your hands:"

Really? Well, only God could do that.

Also earlier in Hebrews Angels are told to worship Him. So God has the angels of Heaven worshiping a false God?

It's 1am and I have to get up for work in 5 hours. I'm sure you'll say I'm running away, but as I have said, I'm sick of your endless attempts to prove a point you can't.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

Why doesn't that just say, "God gave himself?" While you're at it, look up the definition of "begotten" so you can understand it's intentional usage in the above scripture.

 

[karamazov80]

How does one kill God?

Pretty sure you would have to cross the streams.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OOF0FpKiYk[/ame]

 

[teemu]

It should also be noted that Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation of the Septuagint translation of Psalm 45:6 and there are many different interpretations as to whom this text is
referring to. Some believe David is being referenced, other believe it to be Messiah. So when trinitarians translate this particular passage their theological bias tends
to convey the idea that the Father is calling the Son, God when in reality the passage is showing readers that the Son has been exulted to the throne of God.



The Messiah did die Teemu. That was the whole point of the sacrifice. Of course
he later resurrected, but the Messiah did literally die. So that brings the question.
How does one kill God?

Jesus came here for a purpose,to put a blood payment in place for his Elect,the sacrifice had to be made to pay for sin..oviously Jesus was Flesh,doing the Will of the Father,so of course they could kill him.....but ONLY because the Father in heaven allowed it,and it was done for His glory and purpose....Just read the Bible to get your answers and lean not to your own understanding

 

[Azrael23]

Jesus came here for a purpose,to put a blood payment in place for his Elect,the sacrifice had to be made to pay for sin..oviously Jesus was Flesh,doing the Will of the Father,so of course they could kill him.....but ONLY because the Father in heaven allowed it,and it was done for His glory and purpose....Just read the Bible to get your answers and lean not to your own understanding

I make sure that I don't lean on my own understanding, as well as
the philosophies of men. Reading the scriptures for myself is how
I came to the conclusion of the fallacy of trinitarian theology.

Also earlier in Hebrews Angels are told to worship Him. So God has the angels of Heaven worshiping a false God?

The word you may interpret as "worship", simply means "to bow down before. There are many examples throughout the Hebrew scriptures
of men bowing before higher authorities.

Christ was given an authority he didn't posses until after his glorified
resurrection.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

1 Peter 3:22
who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand —with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.


compared to...

Hebrews 1:3-5
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[a] purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Pretty sure you would have to cross the streams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OOF0FpKiYk

 

[K07]

How many of these people in here studying the scriptures are looking at the original Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek? Show of hands? No one? It's amusing to see so many people in here looking at various translations in English and claiming ti have definitively disproved eachother.

I studied theology while in college and all the professors spoke all of those languages. If you had a question regarding something, you'd always go back to the original source.

Whether you're a believer in God or not, the Trinity is present throughout both the Old Testament and New Testament. As early as Creation, God says "Let us make man in our own image." Huh? Us? Our? Oh cool, the first of hundreds of references to the theology of the Trinity! The languages used aren't open for interpretation like English is. Everything has one clear cut meaning.

There is no one verse Jesus comes out and calls themselves a trinity. That is a man made descriptor of God. However, that descriptor is based on extensive study of the Bible and a teaching of the Early Church (ie, the apostles). Instead of taking scripture and twisting it to your own meaning, try reading it in its entirety.

Nam, unless you're Jewish, Mormom, or Jehovah's Witness, why are you going on and on about the Trinity? Does it affect you? Drop it. You've had your fun. Kit Fisto, when you say you're gonna be the bigger man and leave 50x, you come off as sort of a fool. Seriously, just drop it. You're not going to win. Watch me. This is my last post regarding theology because you're not going to convince someone who has hardened their heart to the Spirit by arguing on the internet.

Now, on topic, the idea of this movie seems pretty lame. The account in Genesis about the Flood is far too short to create a Bibical Epic. They'll have to add all sorts of fictional elements to it to stretch it out into a feature length film. There are far more interesting accounts with more substance that could stand in their own without altering scripture too much. King David comes to mind. I've always wanted a movie about his life. Jealousy, friendship and loyalty, war, seduction, murder, repentance, an unmatched legacy as king? It'd top "The Ten Commandments" instantly if done right.... I'll check this one out depending if it's made to be an entertaining movie or if it's made to be an anti-religious movie.

 

[thenammagazine]

How many of these people in here studying the scriptures are looking at the original Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek? Show of hands? No one? It's amusing to see so many people in here looking at various translations in English and claiming ti have definitively disproved eachother.

I studied theology while in college and all the professors spoke all of those languages. If you had a question regarding something, you'd always go back to the original source.

Whether you're a believer in God or not, the Trinity is present throughout both the Old Testament and New Testament. As early as Creation, God says "Let us make man in our own image." Huh? Us? Our? Oh cool, the first of hundreds of references to the theology of the Trinity! The languages used aren't open for interpretation like English is. Everything has one clear cut meaning.

There is no one verse Jesus comes out and calls themselves a trinity. That is a man made descriptor of God. However, that descriptor is based on extensive study of the Bible and a teaching of the Early Church (ie, the apostles). Instead of taking scripture and twisting it to your own meaning, try reading it in its entirety.

Nam, unless you're Jewish, Mormom, or Jehovah's Witness, why are you going on and on about the Trinity? Does it affect you? Drop it. You've had your fun. Kit Fisto, when you say you're gonna be the bigger man and leave 50x, you come off as sort of a fool. Seriously, just drop it. You're not going to win. Watch me. This is my last post regarding theology because you're not going to convince someone who has hardened their heart to the Spirit by arguing on the internet.

Now, on topic, the idea of this movie seems pretty lame. The account in Genesis about the Flood is far too short to create a Bibical Epic. They'll have to add all sorts of fictional elements to it to stretch it out into a feature length film. There are far more interesting accounts with more substance that could stand in their own without altering scripture too much. King David comes to mind. I've always wanted a movie about his life. Jealousy, friendship and loyalty, war, seduction, murder, repentance, an unmatched legacy as king? It'd top "The Ten Commandments" instantly if done right.... I'll check this one out depending if it's made to be an entertaining movie or if it's made to be an anti-religious movie.

I don't think any one of us said there was no such thing as the trinity. We're debating whether or not God IS Jesus. Instead of studying theology (if that's even true), perhaps you should've studied English Comprehension a bit harder. But this is your last post (which I don't believe either), so...

 

[Maglor]

Fun thread, everyone!

those are Scriptures verses are referencing That God quickens a man first to Salvation...God does the saving,not you (we are Saved by GRACE,through Faith and NOT OF YOURSELVES)

God doesn't sits back like some begger and waiting in hope that someday you'll make the Right Decision (or choice) to choose God.

Now you want predestination verses? Romans 8:28-30

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


Ephesians 1:4-5

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

All you have to do is read your Bible and you'll discover these passages

Oh there is more Scripture too ....Unless you refuse to believe the Bible and what it teaches,you cannot argue Election...God Elects!

As a class they are foreordained. As individuals they still have a choice.

Speaking of the same people 2 Peter 1:10 says

Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall - NIV

Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble - New American Standard

And Hebrews 6:4-6

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. - NIV

Hebrews 10:26

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left. - NIV

Salvation is a free gift, but that doesn't mean we can spit in God's face and do whatever we want if we're "Elect".

Pretty sure you would have to cross the streams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OOF0FpKiYk

 

[spiderbo]

I do have a question about the movie if that's cool. (I have enjoyed the other discussion tho).

This movie is not going to be based on the bible right?

 

[teemu]

Hollywood is doing a Mad Max style,Nephilm story of Noah....of course it will be distorted with a mix of truth

https://screencrave.com/2012-07-11/darren-aronofskys-noah-mad-maxstyle-warrior/

The story will also include the Watchers, which are described as “eleven-foot-tall fallen angels with six arms and no wings.” Slashfilm mentions that these fallen angels are actually mentioned in the Bible (Genesis 6) as the giant offspring of the “sons of God and the “daughters of men.”