Nolan Dark Knight Trilogy (BB/TDK/TDKR)

[ironwez20]

Welcome to my world. Now you know why I have such distain for the new Spider-Mans.

You hate it because you don't understand the character simple as that

 

[Zen Mutiny]

The problem with all those "isolated/realistic batman was a shortsighted move" comments, is that those who make them apparently don't realise that for many people Batman - unlike Spiderman, X-Men or the Avengers - is a character that long ago trancended the comic books mythos and doesn't need a shared universe to work. Justice League is not the "be all, end all" setting for Batman.

In case of Marvel characters they exist within a whole bible of comic mythos and many years of storylines and telenovela worth of different characters. But Batman? He is a monolithic figure. Its a story about a guy whose parents were killed and who pummels criminals with his elbows, while dressed as a black beast. Its a wonderful concept that works great on its own, without any shared universe or "bat-family" and justice league friends. Its something that can be tackled in many ways, like the Burton's fairy tale gothic, or Nolan's gritty, contemporary pseudo-noir. I know that the current comic book canon sees Batman interact with a multitude of supernatural beings and characters, but I would bet money that for most people in the world Batman is still that monolithic, self-contained character. I would argue that Batman as a "lone, dark, avenger imprisoned within a city that created him" is a concept that is much more strongly rooted in popculture than the "Batman hangs out with Bat-girl, Robin, Supes, Aquaman and his super friends from their super justice league". It all boils down to that single image of a man crouched like a gargoyle atop a building while wearing something black. Everything else is just chaff.

Take Burton's films for example. They are placed within a totally fantastical, supernatural world that could easily make place for the likes of Superman or the rest of the Justice Leage, but I would bet heavy money that Burton would never in a million years be interested in introducing any of that stuff. Becouse for him it was all about the story of that one crazy, schizofrenic antihero. All about making a poetic fairy tale about a one man's delusion and the crazy city he lived in. Not a re-union of tights-wearing A-team. He wanted to create a bitter-sweet, gothic myth, similar to the tale of Frankestein or Dracula. Introducing all the shared universe stuff would competely cheapen it. He didn't give a **** about any of that noise. And I would argue that so do many geeks in the world. Geeks for whom "Batman with friends" idea can work, but will always be just an alternative to the essential story of a lone crusader. People who know that the idea of Justice Leage is cool, but its far from being the one definetive, quintessential setting for a Batman story.

I don't want to make the cynical mystake of ridiculing or pretentiously underestimating the fully over-the-top, comic-booky mythos of Batman. I know that the apparent sillynes of the "bat-family and friends" concept is just a premise, and once You accept the premise, then it offers a potential for fantastic storylines and interactions between those freaky characters. And I believe there is a great potential is the dynamic between Supes and Batman in the upcoming movie.

But whether or not those interactions and shared universe are better than an isolated, symbolic Batman, is up for debate and personal taste. But I would never, ever say that the colorfull "God-like Batman dukes it out with aliens and gods, while accompanied by teens in tights", is in any way more canon or more important than the "lone, crazy vigilante, stalking the streets of the city that killed his parents" - basically a Year One type story. Which is exactly what Nolan, Goyer and DC were going for with "Begins".

Some say that "realistic/contemporary" approach doesnt fit such an outlandish hero as batman, but thats bull****. In fact if there is one mainstrem tights-wearer who deserves the "crime movie/action/thriller" treatmen its Batman. It just fits the character, like a glove. Besides a "realistic" Batman was hardly anything new. "Batman: Year One" looks nothing like the comic booky crossovers, that form the current comic storyline. So its not like Nolan did something outrageous at the time, in fact he went for the obvious - "this would make a perfect Batman movie" pitch. Saying that he or DC were shortsighted at the time, is a bit silly. You can argue whether or not it payed out for them in the end, or whether it was worth it, but at time they greenlighted Begins, both DC and Nolan simply grabbed the obvious gold strike that was just there within their reach, and at that point they would be silly not to.

I certainly agree that Batman works as a standalone character, even that he works best in his own stories, when he doesn't have to share the limelight with DC's other heroes. The problem arises when people who aren't fans of comics make comic book movies. If the Batman reboot was given to someone who was a fan of DC comics through and through, we would have a very different Batman than what we got in Begins. Potentially, instead of having a Batman universe with all of the color drained out of it, we could have gotten something more along the lines of Sin City - a story with all of the prerequisite "dark and grittiness" to wash the taste of Batman and Robin out of everyone's mouth, yet something that still contains enough fantastic, bizarre, and absurd elements to seamlessly incorporate Batman with the rest of the Justice League - and still be a strong enough narrative to stand on its own if the shared universe didn't pan out. I only hope that they can nail such an approach now, coming so closely on the heels of a trilogy that succeeded exceedingly well in selling the public an entirely different Batman.

 

[a-dev]

Also well argued^

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

You hate it because you don't understand the character simple as that

Amazing Spider-Man was terrible

 

[Zen Mutiny]

When I mention Iron Man, I'm saying that the idea of a shared universe; a continuity, if you will; didn't even enter the public consciousness until well after the first Iron Man came out. A Justice League movie was something people wanted to see, but no one ever said that they wanted a web of interrelated solo films to build up to it. The fact that Batman was a solo franchise should have no bearing on the idea of it not being part of a "shared universe." Remember that WB and DC were also trying to get Justice League: Mortal off the ground, as well.

Which just goes further to show that WB/DC have been running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to figure out what is going to appeal to mass audiences, while Marvel was moving forward with a clear, concise vision. What makes it even more damning, is that DC had already seen great success, critically, if not financially, with the DCAU. DC really has no excuse. Basically, the DC superhero movies (other than the animated franchises directed by someone who truly "got it," Bruce Timm), have been in the hands of complete nincom****s, guys in suits who have no ****ing clue how comics work, and why people like them. I'm not including Nolan in that group, he is truly a great filmmaker, and he did great things with the Batman franchise. However, I am criticizing the suits at WB. Marvel Studios easily figured out on its own, with no precedence, other than a few animated series (the most successful of which were DC's, no less), that a cinematic comic universe would work, and at least was worth a try. Why couldn't WB/DC figure this out? They've been floundering and flailing about for the past decade and a half with umpteen Batman/Superman and Justice League failures, a Green Lantern movie that had a glimmer of hope but quickly extinguished it, and of course, Batman - a franchise with perhaps, one of the largest built in fanbases on Earth, that pretty much guaranteed a box office hit if you could hire a competent filmmaker to get it off the ground. WB/DC deserves no praise for the Dark Knight trilogy. As was mentioned earlier in this thread it WAS the obvious thing to do. Nobody should be praised for doing the obvious. Marvel had the ingenuity to launch a cinematic universe with no precedence other than comics and cartoons, and to anyone who is truly a fan of comics, even THAT was obvious. WB/DC has been dragged through the mud by executives who don't have the faintest clue what they're selling, who they're selling it to, and how to sell it to them. Yes, they succeeded with Nolan. Of course they did. In order to take a billion dollar franchise like Batman with mass appeal and give to one of the hottest directors in Hollywood and not get a billion dollar hit out of it, you'd have to be deliberately sabotaging it every step of the way. So, in short, Nolan deserves to be praised for the Dark Knight trilogy. It was brilliant. Does WB/DC deserve any? Hell no. A ten-year old could have figured out that a shared DC universe would work, and would have taken the appropriate steps moving forward, and hired a FAN to give the FANS a BATMAN movie, not hire an artist like Nolan to do his own interpretation. That's just my opinion. Maybe it wasn't obvious to DC at the time, but that's precisely the problem.

 

[ironwez20]

Amazing Spider-Man was terrible

 

[CelticPredator]

Amazing Spider-Man sucks. And if that's what Spider-Man is supposed to be, then Spider-Man sucks too.

 

[spindrift]

Amazing Spider-Man sucks. And if that's what Spider-Man is supposed to be, then Spider-Man sucks too.

Yeah was very disappointed with it- the whole Lizard thing felt forced and very cliched.....just didn't click with me

 

[ironwez20]

Amazing Spider-Man sucks. And if that's what Spider-Man is supposed to be, then Spider-Man sucks too.

Spider-Man is a douch to villians and a kid. Sorry kiddo. I can't say anything about the movie since that's your opinion but spidey has always been a kid who has bad luck. He's not the silent type like the others.

 

[ironwez20]

Yeah was very disappointed with it- the whole Lizard thing felt forced and very cliched.....just didn't click with me

If they would of put his kid in the movie and gave him a lab coat with pants then he would of been interesting. I hate how they did the lizard. He's so much better as a Dr Jekyll mr Hyde character. Electro atleast seems like a step up and rhino may be good.

 

[spindrift]

If they would of put his kid in the movie and gave him a lab coat with pants then he would of been interesting. I hate how they did the lizard. He's so much better as a Dr Jekyll mr Hyde character. Electro atleast seems like a step up and rhino may be good.

Agreed- just didn't work for me the way the character was handled- strayed way too far from the comic..

better get back on topic-

Nolan's TDK trilogy was incredible- just don't think people appreciate it enough and how special it was..until we get the next reboot to see how great it is!

 

[CelticPredator]

Spider-Man is a douch to villians and a kid. Sorry kiddo. I can't say anything about the movie since that's your opinion but spidey has always been a kid who has bad luck. He's not the silent type like the others.

In that case, Spider-Man sucks and is the worst super hero of all time. Period.

 

[ironwez20]

Yea. Plus all the crap they cut from the movie messed him up. Lizard isn't joker or anything but he's still a cool villian.

 

[Black Knight]

The 3rd Film completely Lost Me.
It was not Batman..., at all.

TDK ..., Best Batman Movie Ever.

 

[Black Knight]

Spider-Man sucks and is the worst super hero of all time. Period.

I agree . ...

 

[ironwez20]

In that case, Spider-Man sucks and is the worst super hero of all time. Period.

. You never liked him to begin with so I'm not surprised by your post at all. He's a smart *** character. What do you want? Him to whine and cry throughout like tobey? For someone who hates the character you sure complain about him alot.

 

[spindrift]

The 3rd Film completely Lost Me.
It was not Batman..., at all.

TDK ..., Best Batman Movie Ever.

I loved TDKR...compliments BB nicely...TDK sticks out as a seperate experience for me ( a brilliant one)- very different from BB in many ways

 

[Khev]

Yeah, TDKR is actually a better follow-up of BB than TDK. It really seems to pick up where BB left off with him obviously wanting to be in a place where "Gotham no longer needs him." TDK didn't end on that note and so it seems a bit disjointed. You either need to watch all three films back to back or BB and then skip right to the third one to fully appreciate TDKR.

If TDK is your be all end all Batman film then I can see how TDKR would be a bit of a letdown.

 

[Zen Mutiny]

The 3rd Film completely Lost Me.
It was not Batman..., at all.

TDK ..., Best Batman Movie Ever.

You mean best Joker movie ever? I didn't see anything outstanding from Batman in that movie. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I saw Batman at all....

 

[CelticPredator]

. You never liked him to begin with so I'm not surprised by your post at all. He's a smart *** character. What do you want? Him to whine and cry throughout like tobey? For someone who hates the character you sure complain about him alot.

Because it gets under your skin.