Obama=Muslim?

[automaton]

he isn't Muslim. it was a slip.

 

[spartan]

well surely the fact that he has had some exposure to the muslim faith can be a good thing. it makes him wiser, and in the world that we live in, he will be able to speak to the Arabs in their own lingo..
and not all americans are christians
by the way... respect to Mesa. he speaks the truth. the muslim faith has been seriously wounded and there's no reason pretending otherwise.
for a long time i thought it was the west that misunderstood and twisted the muslim faith, but you know what? its not. for quite some time now, that religion has been controlled and twisted by the political leaders of those countries, to the point that the recent publications of the Quran have subnotes and edits to the tune of "this no longer applies" and "this part is about the western infidels" etc etc. It's state merged with religion.
Its pretty similar to the christian past really.
That part of the world needs to be left alone to sort itself out. there is no point in the west kicking in and saying "ok, we've killed your tyrants, here's your democracy... see you at starbucks!"... those people need to wake up for themselves and something else... they need to earn that democracy and spill blood for it just like the rest of the world did, that way they will appreciate it.
we certainly have our own problems to sort... like how to stop the recasters.... or how to get a good deal on the Hulk PF... you know... plenty to worry about!

 

[DarkArtist81]

well surely the fact that he has had some exposure to the muslim faith can be a good thing. it makes him wiser, and in the world that we live in, he will be able to speak to the Arabs in their own lingo..
and not all americans are christians
by the way... respect to Mesa. he speaks the truth. the muslim faith has been seriously wounded and there's no reason pretending otherwise.
for a long time i thought it was the west that misunderstood and twisted the muslim faith, but you know what? its not. for quite some time now, that religion has been controlled and twisted by the political leaders of those countries, to the point that the recent publications of the Quran have subnotes and edits to the tune of "this no longer applies" and "this part is about the western infidels" etc etc. It's state merged with religion.
Its pretty similar to the christian past really.
That part of the world needs to be left alone to sort itself out. there is no point in the west kicking in and saying "ok, we've killed your tyrants, here's your democracy... see you at starbucks!"... those people need to wake up for themselves and something else... they need to earn that democracy and spill blood for it just like the rest of the world did, that way they will appreciate it.
we certainly have our own problems to sort... like how to stop the recasters.... or how to get a good deal on the Hulk PF... you know... plenty to worry about!

Well said!

I'm personally tired of that same old rhetoric that America must be the spreaders of democracy. Some places aren't ready for that yet, and it cannot be forced. Imagine if some country came barging in on the American Colonies before 1774, telling us that we should be free and we needed to do it for our own good. Probably would have taken some of the flavor out of Revolution. Or Hell.... we might have not listened and Britain could have changed their tune. The point is, we have to let things like that develop on their own... lest we look more and more like "infidels" to the extremists of the world.

I'm all for attacking terrorist cells, but not "liberating" countries that don't want our liberation in the first place.

As for religion, I wish it would just stay the Hell out of politics. Who cares what religion someone is?? As long as they are not Satanist, I could really give a crap. Makes me sad to think that this is such a huge freakin issue in our modern society. It has absolutely NO relevance to someone's policy at all... unless they are hardcore Christian... in which case.. expect religion to get SHOVED down your throat at every corner.

And you guys calling for a lock, I understand what you mean... These talks will never be civil. It will always be the intelligent and open minded versus the ignorant, backwoods masses.... and it never ends well.

America is screwed....

 

[Voorhees27]

I have a father who is a little racist. And it really pisses me off when he makes racist remarks. As he's gotten older, it has gotten more prevalent. As I got older, I realized it was wrong and have tried very hard to not be that way.

But in the case of Muslims, I can't help it. Muslims killed 3000 innocent civilians. The middle east seems to be a primitive, savage land where they've been fighting each other for thousands of years, well before our current idiot leader GW got us heavily entrenched.

So maybe it's not that I don't care, it's more that I know I am being biased against this particular group but I don't plan on changing that viewpoint anytime soon. And I do care, about the future of this country, which is why I will not be voting Obama. I wish Romney had made the ticket. I don't care if he's Mormon, we share many (but not all) of the same beliefs. Obama doesn't, and his background makes me wonder what he has in plan for the future of this country.

 

[El Roranous]

...but Obama can dance- Doesn't that count for something?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cjtRgnj7pA

 

[galactiboy]

I'm pretty sure that I will feel the same way in another 10 or 20 years. I know it's prejudiced, and this was probably just a small group of extremists that gave the enitre religion a bad global view, but I can't get past it. I've heard very few positive things about the Muslim faith in my extremely limited exposure.

Then you really need to broaden your exposure... it sounds like you have an awareness that being "biggoted" is not particularly healthy. I have no problem with someone saying they don't like X, Y if they are informed. However, I get the sense you are buying into a lot of BS and propoganda w/o doing any research on your own.

Try speaking to Muslims, maybe go to a Mosque or even look up information about the Muslim faith. I think like any religion there is a lot of good, but a few douchey people can ruin it. I imagine if I was an Iraqi citizen I'd have a hard time not thinking all Christians weren't power hungry animals.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Then you really need to broaden your exposure... it sounds like you have an awareness that being "biggoted" is not particularly healthy. I have no problem with someone saying they don't like X, Y if they are informed. However, I get the sense you are buying into a lot of BS and propoganda w/o doing any research on your own.

Try speaking to Muslims, maybe go to a Mosque or even look up information about the Muslim faith. I think like any religion there is a lot of good, but a few douchey people can ruin it. I imagine if I was an Iraqi citizen I'd have a hard time not thinking all Christians weren't power hungry animals.

Well said... I can say by experience that many other faiths that I have witnessed and discussed with the people who practice it.. It's been an eye opening experience.

As thinking people, we must cut through the crap the media sends our way and the fear propaganda to see the truth. The Muslim faith is not evil in and of itself, just like Christianity isn't pushy and overbearing... it's just the isolated overzealous followers that sometimes give them that unwanted edge. The terrorists have just recently spilled blood in the name of faith, but Christians have done a lot of bloodletting themselves throughout history in the name of faith. It's a sad fact of religion...

But once you see the faiths of the world in their pure format, without the hate and oppression... you will begin to understand their appeal. And you might come out of it a bit more worldly and enlightened yourself.

 

[Voorhees27]

You know after reading the past couple pages I can see clearly that there are alot of very intelligent and decent people here. DA & GB have said it best, the ol' there are good and bad of every kind, it is sad to see that religion causes just an uproar but that too erects from missunderstanding.

If Obama being Muslim is a problem with anybody then we've gone 1 step forward and ten back imo. The meaning of life is to try and understand people, respect people and to each his own. We don't need to get into what other extremists like Bush's Christian crew, the Catholic church and Israels Jewish crew do because it doesn't change anything.

I dunno, I guess sometimes it gets worse before it gets better.

 

[wofford29]

You know after reading the past couple pages I can see clearly that there are alot of very intelligent and decent people here. DA & GB have said it best, the ol' there are good and bad of every kind, it is sad to see that religion causes just an uproar but that too erects from missunderstanding.

If Obama being Muslim is a problem with anybody then we've gone 1 step forward and ten back imo. The meaning of life is to try and understand people, respect people and to each his own. We don't need to get into what other extremists like Bush's Christian crew, the Catholic church and Israels Jewish crew do because it doesn't change anything.

I dunno, I guess sometimes it gets worse before it gets better.

I don't think most people (at least I hope not) feel that the problem is Obama being a Muslim. I think the problem for most is IF he is a Muslim and he's trying to pass himself off as a Christian. If anyone can't see that as a problem and huge character flaw for someone running for president, well that person needs their right to vote suspended for this election. There is also Muslim beliefs that would certainly contradict this nations foundation and if he was a devout Muslim he would certainly be at odds with those. So he either is not Muslim, not a practicing Muslim, or Muslim. Likewise he could be a Christian, not a practicing Christian, or not a Christian at all. Either way he needs to stick with one NOT for the sake of his beliefs (which should be the reason if he's devout, but more than likely not since he's a politician) but rather his image as someone who is living what he's preaching to the people.

 

[galactiboy]

Funny that people get bunched-up because Obama's former Pastor is outspoken and crazy... then the next week we are saying Obama's a Muslim and are angry about that

I think you can only dislike him for one religious snafu at a time So time to pick your pony guys

 

[Mesa]

well surely the fact that he has had some exposure to the muslim faith can be a good thing. it makes him wiser, and in the world that we live in, he will be able to speak to the Arabs in their own lingo.. and not all americans are christians
by the way... respect to Mesa. he speaks the truth. the muslim faith has been seriously wounded and there's no reason pretending otherwise.
for a long time i thought it was the west that misunderstood and twisted the muslim faith, but you know what? its not. for quite some time now, that religion has been controlled and twisted by the political leaders of those countries, to the point that the recent publications of the Quran have subnotes and edits to the tune of "this no longer applies" and "this part is about the western infidels" etc etc. It's state merged with religion.
Its pretty similar to the christian past really.
That part of the world needs to be left alone to sort itself out. there is no point in the west kicking in and saying "ok, we've killed your tyrants, here's your democracy... see you at starbucks!"... those people need to wake up for themselves and something else... they need to earn that democracy and spill blood for it just like the rest of the world did, that way they will appreciate it.
we certainly have our own problems to sort... like how to stop the recasters.... or how to get a good deal on the Hulk PF... you know... plenty to worry about!

At least you can see my point. I don't want this board thiking I'm some backwoods redneck hillbilly that attends KKK meetings. But I can't deny how I currently feel about the limited exposure I've had in regards to the Muslim faith. I went from knowing very little about it, to knowing that they don't like us much at all, and have a problem with the Western way of life. Yes, the extremist want to kill us for it, and that is hardly the norm, but still their beliefs and principles stem from the same source as the more peaceful and tolerant people that share the same faith, so I have to think that they share the same beliefs, regardless of how they decide to act upon them.

Then you really need to broaden your exposure... it sounds like you have an awareness that being "biggoted" is not particularly healthy. I have no problem with someone saying they don't like X, Y if they are informed. However, I get the sense you are buying into a lot of BS and propoganda w/o doing any research on your own.

Try speaking to Muslims, maybe go to a Mosque or even look up information about the Muslim faith. I think like any religion there is a lot of good, but a few douchey people can ruin it. I imagine if I was an Iraqi citizen I'd have a hard time not thinking all Christians weren't power hungry animals.

Yes, admittedly my exposure has been mostly limited to TV shows regarding 9/11 and I'm a regular listener of Talk radio. Obviously, that source is going to be fairly one-sided. But again, this goes back to my own issue. I don't want to learn about their faith. I could care less about what they want to do or how they decide to live their lives... as long as it doesn't impact me, which it most certainly did and has. Now with a small group throwing their Muslim faith in my face, I'm forced to deal with it. And the little bit I've heard, I don't want to learn anymore. Now am I going to start rallying for retaliatiation against all Muslims because one small group attacked us? No, of course not. But I certainly will not try to put someone like that in charge of the US. I understand that these terrorists represent a small portion of the faith, and there must exist a larger group that agree with my desire to just live life peacefully. I just haven't heard them say that too often. I would think if someone just slandered or misrepresented my beliefs, I would want to publicly rectify it and communicate to the rest of the world that we did not agree with the terrorists actions. I have not heard that from the rest of the Muslim people. Until that time happens, I can't support to put someone of the same beliefs as these people in the White House.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Honestly, I don't care about his religion at all... Not a factor to me in the slightest. (And I don't think he is hiding anything, he was just commenting on the fact that his Muslim history hasn't been attacked that much).

I think it was an easy mistake to make, don't see it being something to lose an election over. If I'm wrong... we really must be lost.

 

[El Roranous]

Honestly, I don't care about his religion at all... Not a factor to me in the slightest. (And I don't think he is hiding anything, he was just commenting on the fact that his Muslim history hasn't been attacked that much).

I think it was an easy mistake to make, don't see it being something to lose an election over. If I'm wrong... we really must be lost.

We are already really lost. We had Bush in office for 8 years.

 

[moejoseph]

 

[galactiboy]

Yes, admittedly my exposure has been mostly limited to TV shows regarding 9/11 and I'm a regular listener of Talk radio. Obviously, that source is going to be fairly one-sided. But again, this goes back to my own issue. I don't want to learn about their faith. I could care less about what they want to do or how they decide to live their lives... as long as it doesn't impact me, which it most certainly did and has. Now with a small group throwing their Muslim faith in my face, I'm forced to deal with it. And the little bit I've heard, I don't want to learn anymore. Now am I going to start rallying for retaliatiation against all Muslims because one small group attacked us? No, of course not. But I certainly will not try to put someone like that in charge of the US. I understand that these terrorists represent a small portion of the faith, and there must exist a larger group that agree with my desire to just live life peacefully. I just haven't heard them say that too often. I would think if someone just slandered or misrepresented my beliefs, I would want to publicly rectify it and communicate to the rest of the world that we did not agree with the terrorists actions. I have not heard that from the rest of the Muslim people. Until that time happens, I can't support to put someone of the same beliefs as these people in the White House.

I can respect your views and understand where you are coming from... but at the same time I think you are being too complacent in your dismissal of 1.2 billion people. And food for thought, I pulled this quote off an Islamic site:

The literal meaning of Islam is peace; surrender of one’s will i.e. losing oneself for the sake of God and surrendering one’s own pleasure for the pleasure of God.

And, (assuming you are Christian, apologies if you aren't) but do you not think that Christianity has been misused an abused over the centuries? George W Bush has (unfortunately IMO) become the poster child for Christianiy in the US and other countries equate Christianity with his actions and beliefs? Not to mention past condonement of Slavery and the persecution of Native Americans... don't see a lot of Christians addressing that on a daily basis, have you ever apologized to a anyone or made a public apology for transgressions made by Christians?

Much like Muslims don't always do the same, although there are websites out there discussing this as well:

Islamonline

 

[HAPPYBOY]

I seem to remember something about "Freedom of Religion" being in our constition. That's all I got, never see me in this thread again. LOL

 

[DarkArtist81]

I can respect your views and understand where you are coming from... but at the same time I think you are being too complacent in your dismissal of 1.2 billion people. And food for thought, I pulled this quote off an Islamic site:



And, (assuming you are Christian, apologies if you aren't) but do you not think that Christianity has been misused an abused over the centuries? George W Bush has (unfortunately IMO) become the poster child for Christianiy in the US and other countries equate Christianity with his actions and beliefs? Not to mention past condonement of Slavery and the persecution of Native Americans... don't see a lot of Christians addressing that on a daily basis, have you ever apologized to a anyone or made a public apology for transgressions made by Christians?

Much like Muslims don't always do the same, although there are websites out there discussing this as well:

Islamonline

Joe... you rule bro.

I agree. Every religion has had bad eggs who carry out horror in the name of that religion. But to condemn the entire religion for those transgressions would be extremely wrong.

And Happyboy is right... freedom of religion was a cornerstone of our government and the Constitution. Our civilization here was started due to religious oppression and our escape from that tyranny. To create a "new" tyranny of religious oppression in this country would be against the core beliefs of our country. Christianity is not the "correct" religion... none are. They are only correct to the people who practice them and for personal reasons inherent to their upbringing and values. It's not our place to judge any faith for the mistakes of a few.

 

[galactiboy]

I seem to remember something about "Freedom of Religion" being in our constition. That's all I got, never see me in this thread again. LOL

Remember when it was a stink that Ellison was sworn into Congress using the Koran instead of a Bible... I think we still have a ways to go in the US.

 

[-Super Hans-]

 

[carbo-fation]

Man, I was surprised after the previous two locked threads, how many ignorant and racists people are on this board. But this just takes the cake! Glad to see we have folks from all over the place on this board.