Obama's speech....

[woodsy]

And I would hope you have an answer for my answers. Discussion!



If you truly feel that way you can always look at his voting record to see where he stands.



The same of course could be said for McCain, who associates with "extremists" of his own.



Well the radically right wing, increasingly fascist America doesn't really seem to be working out for us, does it?

That's funny...I thought you were Jeremiah Wright or Louis Farrakhan for a moment. And please feel free to list the names of all the "I hate America" extremists who justify 911, and believe that true change can only come through violence, that McCain calls his friends. So much for your rhetoric about discussion

 

[Naptownsithlord]

If Obama could deliver on even half of the jive he was talking during that speech I would probably vote for him.

"Hope" and "Change" quickly became "politics as usual" though....

And I really hope Americans don't vote for a President based on what the rest of the world thinks of him.

Are you kidding he's a Rock Star man didn't you see him ride in on chariots to that Kennedy type crowd (he's no Kennedy either).
See the problem is Obamas speech sounds good but its hollow.
He doesn't like whitey so i can't see myself voting for someone that doesn't like my race(his pastor is evidence of that).
He seems to be about taking from those that work hard and give to those that don't want to work.
I'm just glad Michelle Obama is proud to be an American again now i can sleep better at night.

 

[monkeydad16]

To me, Obama's speech was one of the most spectacular things I've ever seen. I do not recall a politician packing out an entire football arena and bringing his followers to tears with his words.

This, however, is what scares the hell out of me with this guy. His background and choice of associates is shady at best. His voting record is nowhere near moderate but far left (when he even bothers to vote that is). How people can get so emotional over this guy is beyond me.

As for the speech itself, typical political bantering that both parties are guilty of. Don't just tell me what you are going to do, tell me how you are going to do it.

 

[Naptownsithlord]

And I would hope you have an answer for my answers. Discussion!


It doesn't seem like much of a discussion you seem to have a spin for every topic.



If you truly feel that way you can always look at his voting record to see where he stands.

Yeah you can check his record when he does actually vote it's left, left, and oh yeah left.

To me, Obama's speech was one of the most spectacular things I've ever seen. I do not recall a politician packing out an entire football arena and bringing his followers to tears with his words.

This, however, is what scares the hell out of me with this guy. His background and choice of associates is shady at best. His voting record is nowhere near moderate but far left (when he even bothers to vote that is). How people can get so emotional over this guy is beyond me.

As for the speech itself, typical political bantering that both parties are guilty of. Don't just tell me what you are going to do, tell me how you are going to do it.

Preaching to the choir but well said.

 

[woodsy]

Obama is without a doubt, the most radical, left wing nominee the Democrats have ever chosen to be their Presidential candidate. And yet while his ardent supporters [after picking themselves up after falling all over him, and wiping the tears from their eyes] keep insisting we look at his extreme left voting record [as if that's supposed to reassure any of us] they refuse to do the same by taking a good, long look into the man's actual character. Or even worse, they know the type of America hating, left leaning extremist whack jobs he calls his friends and advisors, and ignore it.

And please...no more comparison's between JFK and Obama or I'm gonna be sick. JFK was a great leader and President and if he were alive today he wouldn't even recognize the Democrats of 2008. Obama is nothing more than a glorified rock star who isn't fit to be mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[Bannister]

 

[LOTRFan]

This, however, is what scares the hell out of me with this guy. His background and choice of associates is shady at best. His voting record is nowhere near moderate but far left (when he even bothers to vote that is). How people can get so emotional over this guy is beyond me.

Sad isn't it, that we have really sunk to the level of pop culture politics! It is knee-jerk emotion, brought on by the substanceless promise of hope.

The man has an amazing following, undeniably; but few have really researched who he is or what he stands for.

 

[Shai]

 

[automaton]

Sad isn't it, that we have really sunk to the level of pop culture politics! It is knee-jerk emotion, brought on by the substanceless promise of hope.

The man has an amazing following, undeniably; but few have really researched who he is or what he stands for.

i couldn't agree more!

 

[DinoLast]

Obama is Americas Tony Blair. Get ready to through the PC madness we in Britain have to suffer ever day. Obama is still better than McCain though. I liked the bit he did about dependancy on middle eastern oil

 

[barbelith]

And please feel free to list the names of all the "I hate America" extremists who justify 911, and believe that true change can only come through violence, that McCain calls his friends.

I don't recall ever saying McCain was "friends" with people who hate America, believe change can only come from violence or justify 9/11. I also dispute Obama is "friends" with people who genuinely espouse these beliefs. My point was that this sort of smearing goes in both directions. Is it wrong that McCain is "friends" with convicted criminal G Gordon Liddy, who once advocated citizens to shoot federal agents in the head on sight? What about his "friendship" with pastor John Hagee, who said the people killed by Katrina deserved it as God was punishing America?

He doesn't like whitey so i can't see myself voting for someone that doesn't like my race(his pastor is evidence of that).

What has Obama ever said to make you think he's racist?

He seems to be about taking from those that work hard and give to those that don't want to work.

What specifically makes you think this?

It doesn't seem like much of a discussion you seem to have a spin for every topic.

Facts and spin are not the same thing.

Yeah you can check his record when he does actually vote it's left, left, and oh yeah left.

Which is as it should be.

Obama is without a doubt, the most radical, left wing nominee the Democrats have ever chosen to be their Presidential candidate.

You should probably brush up on your history if you truly believe this. Obama is proudly progressive but he's hardly the most radical nor the most liberal president we've had running for office. And quite frankly I think the country is ready to head left again after witnessing the radical right grind our nation into the ground and drag it incrementally closer to a police state. Ironic for a party that claims to want the government out of our private lives!

keep insisting we look at his extreme left voting record [as if that's supposed to reassure any of us]

Can you name five votes that have kept you up at night? It might help if we begin looking at specifics.

they refuse to do the same by taking a good, long look into the man's actual character

Why do you assume we haven't looked into his character?

Or even worse, they know the type of America hating, left leaning extremist whack jobs he calls his friends and advisors, and ignore it.

This is the sort of idiocy that gets threads shut down. I might as well say that Bush and his team obviously hate America since they're dismantling civil liberties, spying on citizens without provocation, allowed a major city to collapse, drained the economy and seemingly did everything in their power to increase the threat of terrorism. But that would be ignorant. So. Why do you think Obama and his team hate America?

 

[Bannister]

What about his "friendship" with pastor John Hagee, who said the people killed by Katrina deserved it as God was punishing America?

Hagee is the pastor of a local megachurch where I live. I cannot stand that guy.

 

[barbelith]

I think it's important to remember that America is not its government or its policies. Let's try to have the dignity, grace and intelligence to reflect on which of those people might be talking about when they use the word "America" and respond accordingly.

 

[woodsy]

I think it's important to remember that America is not its government or its policies. Let's try to have the dignity, grace and intelligence to reflect on which of those people might be talking about when they use the word "America" and respond accordingly.

The problem here is you're not looking for discussion, you're looking for validation. Go back and take a look at the names I listed before, the one's he's dedicated books to, and called his close friends and advisors. You keep going on like a broken record telling everyone else to "look it up", so take your own advice. If, after going through the info on these whack jobs, you don't have a problem with them and are comfortable with their obscene rhetoric and ideals, then by all means vote for Obama. But, as the saying goes " be careful what you wish for....you just might get it".

 

[LOTRFan]

Obama is Americas Tony Blair. Get ready to through the PC madness we in Britain have to suffer ever day. Obama is still better than McCain though. I liked the bit he did about dependancy on middle eastern oil

But unlike Obama's speculative vision of alternative fuels - that just might work - McCain has now allied himself with a running mate who will school Biden/Obama on how to actually produce.

 

[barbelith]

The problem here is you're not looking for discussion, you're looking for validation.

I don't need validation. George W Bush is the most unpopular president in US history not because liberals hate his policies, but because conservatives hate his policies. And now McCain is essentially running for a third Bush term. America is moving left. Don't worry. One day it'll move right. It's always a cycle.

I find this claim of yours interesting in light of the Palin thread too, considering I've probably been the most generous cross-party poster here in recognizing the positives of an opposing candidate. Compare that to the "Obama hates America" rhetoric stirred up by some.

Go back and take a look at the names I listed before, the one's he's dedicated books to, and called his close friends and advisors.

Why do you assume I'm unfamiliar with these people? Obama has rightly criticized some of the things they have said and done. But honestly some of the "controversial" statements are laughable conservative spin. How many times do we have to pretend to be offended Wright said we brought 9/11 on ourselves when it never would have happened if US foreign policy was different? This of course gets spun into "justification" by the smear machine. We ruthlessly stamp out any attempt at intelligent reflection and contextual appreciation in favor of unthinking LCD propaganda, to the point that hearing a sermon = "advice" and sitting on a board with someone = "friendship." It's absurd, and it's why I wasn't the one to introduce McCain's controversial (and in some cases criminal) friends as in an attempt to discredit him.

 

[woodsy]

I don't need validation. George W Bush is the most unpopular president in US history not because liberals hate his policies, but because conservatives hate his policies. And now McCain is essentially running for a third Bush term. America is moving left. Don't worry. One day it'll move right. It's always a cycle.

I find this claim of yours interesting in light of the Palin thread too, considering I've probably been the most generous cross-party poster here in recognizing the positives of an opposing candidate. Compare that to the "Obama hates America" rhetoric stirred up by some.



Why do you assume I'm unfamiliar with these people? Obama has rightly criticized some of the things they have said and done. But honestly some of the "controversial" statements are laughable conservative spin. How many times do we have to pretend to be offended Wright said we brought 9/11 on ourselves when it never would have happened if US foreign policy was different? This of course gets spun into "justification" by the smear machine. We ruthlessly stamp out any attempt at intelligent reflection and contextual appreciation in favor of unthinking LCD propaganda, to the point that hearing a sermon = "advice" and sitting on a board with someone = "friendship." It's absurd, and it's why I wasn't the one to introduce McCain's controversial (and in some cases criminal) friends.

No, he doesn't critize them, he completely distances himself from them. And funny how the only time he ever distances himself from one of his friends is when the spotlight is turned on them. For 20 + year's he didn't seem to mind anything his dear old "grandpa" Wright had to say. Like I said before, if you're comfortable with Obama...then vote for him, that's your right. But I've been around waaay to long to fall for smooth words, and tear-jerking speeches by politicians [all politicians]. I prefer to look at their character or in the case of Obama, lackthereof.

 

[automaton]

sadly, perhaps we get the government we deserve.

 

[barbelith]

For 20 + year's he didn't seem to mind anything his dear old "grandpa" Wright had to say.

This is the sort of nonsense that has no place in intelligent discussion. Clearly you agree with every last thing your parents have ever said since you haven't "distanced" yourself from them. Right? Oh.

 

[The Josh]

But unlike Obama's speculative vision of alternative fuels - that just might work - McCain has now allied himself with a running mate who will school Biden/Obama on how to actually produce.

Great school them on how to produce Oil. Thats wonderful. Its doing a great job of tearing this planet up. So if that impresses you then boy you must love how things are right now. As far as Obama's speculative vision of alternative fuels studies have shown the stuff he wants to do will work. Personally I want to try those and do what we can to help save this planet. I'd personally like to see your kids and someday my kids, grandkids, etc still be able to live here.