Official "Ridley Scott's Prometheus" Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Niltusk]

Just watched the extended edition of Aliens for the first time in quite a few years last night. It's clear to me that if Aliens were released today and was the same movie but with today's special effects half the audience would write it off as just a bunch of idiots making bad decisions like the crew of the Prometheus.

"Crack" soldiers walking around touching alien secreted resins with their bare hands, parking a dropship with an open ramp a dozen yards away from an infested complex, a badass soldier unable to withstand the pain of a little girl's bite when her life and possibly his team could be in jeopardy, Newt's parents exploring an alien ship without any precautions, considering a complex "secure" just because some soldiers didn't detect any movement in about a five minute search, the list just goes on.

Good thing that that movie came out before the internet.

I've been wanting to do a marathon of the 4 core movies. Especially since Lindelof said they did a bunch of little nods in Prometheus to the movies. Just haven't had the time to do it yet.

 

[Frank]

Just watched the extended edition of Aliens for the first time in quite a few years last night. It's clear to me that if Aliens were released today and was the same movie but with today's special effects half the audience would write it off as just a bunch of idiots making bad decisions like the crew of the Prometheus.

"Crack" soldiers walking around touching alien secreted resins with their bare hands, parking a dropship with an open ramp a dozen yards away from an infested complex, a badass soldier unable to withstand the pain of a little girl's bite when her life and possibly his team could be in jeopardy, Newt's parents exploring an alien ship without any precautions, considering a complex "secure" just because some soldiers didn't detect any movement in about a five minute search, the list just goes on.

Good thing that that movie came out before the internet.

Plot holes and flimsy plot contrivances can easily be forgiven if they set up great sequences (e.g., Alien Queen elevator ride). If Prometheus was half as thrilling as Alien or Aliens, we'd be overlooking its flaws just the same as the others.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

Erm, Millburn being a dumbass and getting too close to the Hammerpede set up a "great sequence" imo.... Wrapping around his arm, breaking it in half..acid blood..face-rape..mutant Fifield...etc.

 

[Frank]

Erm, Millburn being a dumbass and getting too close to the Hammerpede set up a "great sequence" imo.... Wrapping around his arm, breaking it in half..acid blood..face-rape..mutant Fifield...etc.

That was plain old bad characterization that ended in a fairly predictable outcome. If this were on the same level of Alien or Aliens, I'd expect those guys to bolt immediately out of the room until someone or something catches up with them.

 

[Ramatuelle]

Plot holes and flimsy plot contrivances can easily be forgiven if they set up great sequences (e.g., Alien Queen elevator ride). If Prometheus was half as thrilling as Alien or Aliens, we'd be overlooking its flaws just the same as the others.

^^^ And there's the money-shot right there. Truth.

I would add that plot-flaws can more easily be forgiven if we care the least bit about the people involved. The only characters that are the least bit memorable in Prometheus are the android and the Engineer.

Since I liked the Engineer, I can even overlook his Hulking Out for absolutely no reason. Unfortunately when I think about Fifeld and co. getting lost [despite being tracked in real time via hologram, wtf], I can only think about how stupid they are - because I have been given absolutely no reason to like them or care what happens to them. Then the fact that they go on to make a series of laughably stupid mistakes just breaks my immersion even more. Ugh.

 

[DiFabio]

Alien and Aliens are infallible to criticism.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Have you guys worked out the answer to Elizabeth Shaw's burning question, i.e. why did our creators turn on us?
Golly, I'm all for ambiguity, but if we didn't know the answer to THAT one, the audience would have every right to string us up. Yes. There is an answer. One that is hinted at within the goalposts of "Prometheus." I'll bet if I asked you to take a guess you wouldn't be far off.

Because human beings will destroy themselves in the end anyways??

 

[Frank]

^^^ And there's the money-shot right there. Truth.

I would add that plot-flaws can more easily be forgiven if we care the least bit about the people involved. The only characters that are the least bit memorable in Prometheus are the android and the Engineer.

Since I liked the Engineer, I can even overlook his Hulking Out for absolutely no reason. Unfortunately when I think about Fifeld and co. getting lost [despite being tracked in real time via hologram, wtf], I can only think about how stupid they are - because I have been given absolutely no reason to like them or care what happens to them. Then the fact that they go on to make a series of laughably stupid mistakes just breaks my immersion even more. Ugh.

Absolutely. Suspense has alot to do with caring about what happens to the character in question. If you don't put yourself in their shoes, you won't be as shocked when something bad happens to them. Throw away characters can serve as appetizers or red herrings to the main story to make an attack on the main characters even more unexpected. Prometheus never really put in alot of time and effort to make us identify with their protagonists.

Alien and Aliens are infallible to criticism.

They are the Pope of sci-fi horror films.

Because human beings will destroy themselves in the end anyways??

Or find out they've been dead the whole time.

 

[Viking Spawn]

I actually felt sorry for David in this scene. I wish he had put up a better fight at least despite being taken off guard.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlY82S3eVc[/ame]

 

[Ramatuelle]

Alien and Aliens are infallible to criticism.

Frank: They are the Pope of sci-fi horror films.

Pretty much.

Prometheus lacks the identifiability-factor. In Alien, you got a bunch of people dragged out of hypersleep [who among us has not been dragged out of sleep to deal with unpleasantnesses?] and told they are going to have to go do something they do NOT want to do, or face a serious financial penalty. Who among us cannot relate to this?! Every day in every way, its all about the money. The crew of the Nostromo is grumpy and put-upon. We have all been there.

Same thing in Aliens. Regular folks, doing a job because.... well, because they're basically forced to. Their commanding officer says, go do this. They're grunts. They HAVE to do it. They don't like it but they have to do it.

Then in Prometheus we have Fifeld barking out of nowhere, "I'm just here for the money!" or some such thing. It just does not have the same "we've all been there" sort of zing. Prometheus is full of this type stuff.

Charlize Theron aggressively tells the crew that she is there to make sure they do their jobs. Bishop and Ash were there for [at least partially] the same reason. They were more likeable because they were not all up in the crew's faces about it. Ash was an ass, but even he was less abrasive than Vickers. And so when Vickers stupidly gets crushed by a falling spaceship.... who cares? Not me, I can tell you.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

^^^ And there's the money-shot right there. Truth.

I would add that plot-flaws can more easily be forgiven if we care the least bit about the people involved. The only characters that are the least bit memorable in Prometheus are the android and the Engineer.

Since I liked the Engineer, I can even overlook his Hulking Out for absolutely no reason. Unfortunately when I think about Fifeld and co. getting lost [despite being tracked in real time via hologram, wtf], I can only think about how stupid they are - because I have been given absolutely no reason to like them or care what happens to them. Then the fact that they go on to make a series of laughably stupid mistakes just breaks my immersion even more. Ugh.

He didn't "hulk out for no reason". How could anyone say this? If you watch the movie you OBVIOUSLY KNOW that they were supposed to destroy us two thousand years ago "before things went to pot"...so I think it would also be OBVIOUS that he's not going to sit down and have tea with them.

..and I completely disagree about David and the Engineer being the only memorable characters

That was plain old bad characterization that ended in a fairly predictable outcome. If this were on the same level of Alien or Aliens, I'd expect those guys to bolt immediately out of the room until someone or something catches up with them.

I found the Hammerpede incident to be much more "thrilling" than the Queen coming out of the elevator. Which, was incredibly predictable.

 

[Ramatuelle]

He didn't "hulk out for no reason". How could anyone say this? If you watch the movie you OBVIOUSLY KNOW that they were supposed to destroy us two thousand years ago "before things went to pot"...so I think it would also be OBVIOUS that he's not going to sit down and have tea with them.

No, I am sorry.... its not "OBVIOUS" to me. Nowhere is this made clear in the film. If they were supposed to destroy us, why would they waste time on an outpost light-years away from Earth? its not like they DIDNT KNOW WHERE EARTH WAS, and its not an efficient use of time. The awakened Engineer has been asleep for thousands of years. Then all the sudden he's patting David on the head, until David makes his request. His hulking out had nothing to do with a predetermined mission, and everything to do with David's message ticking him off for some reason.

That reason is unknown to the audience.

I found the Hammerpede incident to be much more "thrilling" than the Queen coming out of the elevator. Which, was incredibly predictable.

Yeah, because trying to pet threatening alien entities is pretty unpredictable, I will give you that. :eyeroll:

Look, you love Prometheus. We get that. But your rationales ring hollow to those of us who have probably been following this franchise since before you were born.

 

[isculpt]

No, I am sorry.... its not "OBVIOUS" to me. Nowhere is this made clear in the film. If they were supposed to destroy us, why would they waste time on an outpost light-years away from Earth? its not like they DIDNT KNOW WHERE EARTH WAS, and its not an efficient use of time. The awakened Engineer has been asleep for thousands of years. Then all the sudden he's patting David on the head, until David makes his request. His hulking out had nothing to do with a predetermined mission, and everything to do with David's message ticking him off for some reason.

That reason is unknown to the audience.



Yeah, because trying to pet threatening alien entities is pretty unpredictable, I will give you that. :eyeroll:

Look, you love Prometheus. We get that. But your rationales ring hollow to those of us who have probably been following this franchise since before you were born.

Didn't the director confirm David's message already?

 

[Frank]

I found the Hammerpede incident to be much more "thrilling" than the Queen coming out of the elevator. Which, was incredibly predictable.

Really? Well, this is why it's more thrilling to me:

It's a matter of scope (Queen is huge and intelligent), appearance (1,000,000 times the fugly), dramatic entrance (a demonic visage peering out of the shadows, jets of steam everywhere), purpose (rescue mission), suspense (nearly caught while boarding the dropship). You're right it was predictable, but still managed to scare because it took care in building the tension with the aforementioned. If you don't think so, you probably weren't around to see it back then.

This will beat an eyeless five[edited for accuracy!]-fanged flesh-cobra taking out a profoundly stupid man whose only purpose is to die any day of the week.

 

[Frank]

Didn't the director confirm David's message already?

Yeah, but that's an offscreen tidbit. The idea of David merely saying "my master would like to extend his life, please help" is uninspiring and probably the reason why they left it untranslated. At that point you'd think we were owed some intelligent dialog from the big man himself instead of going off like an abusive drunk dad who just got woken up by his kids.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

No, I am sorry.... its not "OBVIOUS" to me. Nowhere is this made clear in the film.

Oh, it was made pretty clear...did you even watch the movie? Two thousand year old corpses. When Shaw asks David about why the ship was headed to Earth two thousand years ago before they wake the Engineer, he even says "To create, one must first destroy" or somthing to that effect. If you didn't get this, you weren't paying any attention.

If they were supposed to destroy us, why would they waste time on an outpost light-years away from Earth? its not like they DIDNT KNOW WHERE EARTH WAS, and its not an efficient use of time.

I'm sorry..what are you talking about? You're not making any sense. The outpost was a military base (or so Janek believes), and they were most likely preparing to take their bioweapon cargo from their bioweapon factory to Earth before somthing went wrong..and they were (almost) all killed. Which was also clearly understood if you paid attention during the film.

The awakened Engineer has been asleep for thousands of years. Then all the sudden he's patting David on the head, until David makes his request. His hulking out had nothing to do with a predetermined mission, and everything to do with David's message ticking him off for some reason.

That reason is unknown to the audience.

Now you're acting as if your opinion is a complete fact.

David speaks to the Engineer BEFORE he pats him on the head. Pay attention.

So, no, you can't say with complete certainty that whatever David said is what caused him to kill the crew. We can speculate that he was most likely going to kill them either way. He doesn't give a ____ about our silly problems (weyland wanting to live forever). He took a few seconds to analyze the situation and make a decision.

He knew what needed to be done. He knew that whatever threat that killed his crew mates two thousand years ago must have been long gone if the humans made it there alive. He knew that humans had evolved a great deal. He knew that he needed to complete his mission ASAP.

..and he probably stroked David's hair because he found him to be interesting or pure because he was actually capable of speaking the Engineer language. Or because he was slightly amazed at how far one of his race's own creations have come....they were now able to create life themselves.


It really seems like you just had no idea what was going on in the movie because you didn't pay attention, or didn't want to in the first place.

Look, you love Prometheus. We get that. But your rationales ring hollow to those of us who have probably been following this franchise since before you were born.

Once again you bring the age thing into play. Fifth time.

Doesn't that make you look even worse considering the fact that you are older and apparently far superior to me, yet you had almost no idea of what was happening in the movie that you've "been following since before I was born"?

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

Really? Well, this is why it's more thrilling to me:

It's a matter of scope (Queen is huge and intelligent), appearance (1,000,000 times the fugly), dramatic entrance (a demonic visage peering out of the shadows, jets of steam everywhere), purpose (rescue mission), suspense (nearly caught while boarding the dropship). You're right it was predictable, but still managed to scare because it took care in building the tension with the aforementioned. If you don't think so, you probably weren't around to see it back then.

This will beat an eyeless one-fanged flesh-cobra taking out a profoundly stupid man whose only purpose is to die any day of the week.

Who did you think was in the elevator? The Dropship? No. It was obviously going to be the Queen. That kinda ruins the whole "demonic visage peering out of the shadows, jets of stream everywhere" image because we know with almost absolute certainty that it's the Queen.

And I don't think we even saw the Queen chase after Ripley while she got on the Dropship either.

I love Aliens, and I love that scene...but it was incredibly predictable.

We knew the Hammerpede was going to attack atleast one of them. But I wasn't expecting it to wrap around his arm, continually tighten while the man screams in pain crying for Fifield to cut it off..only for it to spray acid blood all over Fifield's helmet causing it to melt on his face and him to fall in the black ooze that we now know mutates whatever touches it...while the Hammerpede, still alive, slides through Millburn's suit, wraps around his neck strangling him, then slithers down his throat. Very intense and suspenseful.

And the Hammerpede had five fangs FYI.

 

[Frank]

Who did you think was in the elevator? The Dropship? No. It was obviously going to be the Queen. That kinda ruins the whole "demonic visage peering out of the shadows, jets of stream everywhere" image because we know with almost absolute certainty that it's the Queen.

And I don't think we even saw the Queen chase after Ripley while she got on the Dropship either.

I love Aliens, and I love that scene...but it was incredibly predictable.

I suppose it was since you saw it about 20 years after it came out.

amirite?

We knew the Hammerpede was going to attack atleast one of them. But I wasn't expecting it to wrap around his arm, continually tighten while the man screams in pain crying for Fifield to cut it off..only for it to spray acid blood all over Fifield's helmet causing it to melt on his face and him to fall in the black ooze that we now know mutates whatever touches it...while the Hammerpede, still alive, slides through Millburn's suit, wraps around his neck strangling him, then slithers down his throat. Very intense and suspenseful.

Slightly gory, I'll grant you that. Intense? Well I did harbor intense hatred for them both I guess. How is it suspenseful though?

Let me ask you then; did you actually care about the characters, whether they were in danger or not, and of course why?

I for one, wanted them to get hurt badly for being space versions of Steve Irwin (Crikey! She's a real beauooooootay!) after being space versions of Shaggy and Scooby Doo (That's a dead alien?! Like let's get out here Scoob!). I wasn't the only one who laughed in a packed theater when they bit it like chumps.

And the Hammerpede had five fangs FYI.

+1 for accuracy, -5 for missing point.

 

[tylerdurden]

Didn't the director confirm David's message already?

it's more of the film's language teacher who confirmed what david said. here's an excerpt from a pretty good article explaining the unanswered questions of prometheus...

"...an interview in The Bioscopist where the film’s Linguistics Consultant Dr. Anil Biltoo of the SOAS Language Centre in London, revealed exactly what David said: “This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life.”"

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

I suppose it was since you saw it about 20 years after it came out.

amirite?

The time I saw the film is irrelevant. That particular scene in the movie was very predictable...that was my point.

Glad to see you've decided to focus on my age as well though.

Slightly gory, I'll grant you that. Intense? Well I did harbor intense hatred for them both I guess. How is it suspenseful though?

Intense hatred for them?

The suspenseful part for me was mostly when the Hammerpede was wrapping around his arm, squeezing tighter and tighter... while he's screaming for Fifield to touch it, and then cut it off. While it's ripping his muscles and crunching his bones..

And then, there's suspense from knowing that that wasn't the only Hammerpede there..and that Fifield isn't paying attention to what's around him because he's trying to get the Hammerpede off of Millburn, etc, etc.

Whether you care for those characters or not, what they went through was very intense and painful. It makes you cringe.

Let me ask you then; did you actually care about the characters, whether they were in danger or not, and of course why?

I cared about Fifield, not Millburn.

Fifield, although being rude at times, didn't come off as a bad person...so I naturally don't dislike him.

+1 for accuracy, -5 for missing point.

That comment wasn't directed at your overall point, because I already went over that earlier in the post...so I didn't miss anything. Just correcting you.