Official "Ridley Scott's Prometheus" Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

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Didn't the director confirm David's message already?

As I have mentioned before, any time you have to go to an outside source to find out what was going on in a given entertainment venue, said venue has failed. The mere fact that the director had to go back and clarify what happened after the fact, meant "fail."

David: "Hey, help this guy out."

Engineer: "HULK SMASH!"

...it just makes no sense from any logical perspective, as anyone not blinded by positive bias can see. Makes. no. sense. Stupid storytelling.

As for our resident apologist's attempts to attack, I only have this to say:

Apologist: "Now you're acting as if your opinion is a complete fact."

Ditto, young'un. Ditto. :snake

p.s. I don't literally consider Alien and Aliens "infallible." Its just that compared to the logistical train-wreck we are discussing, they might as well be. And that is about as far as I got re that post, because walls of text ftl. No offense.
 
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What a brick wall of text, I wouldn't have read even a fraction of it, except you got on a roll Khev and you nailed it on several fronts. One of the better posts I've seen on these boards.:hi5:

Thank you. :bow I knew I was on thin ice when I pasted my post into Word to make sure I didn't lose it as I was typing. :lol

p.s. I don't literally consider Alien and Aliens "infallible." Its just that compared to the logistical train-wreck we are discussing, they might as well be. And that is about as far as I got re that post, because walls of text ftl. No offense.

"None taken."

hicks01.jpg
 
As I have mentioned before, any time you have to go to an outside source to find out what was going on in a given entertainment venue, said venue has failed. The mere fact that the director had to go back and clarify what happened after the fact, meant "fail."
And you'd be dead wrong.

If you had half a brain, you would have known what was taking place in that scene. Peter Weyland wants to live forever. That's why they go to visit the engineer. They wake the engineer so David can ask him to grant Weyland more life. Peter Weyland even tells Elizabeth why they're going to see the engineer...to save him from death...if you didn't understand that, you weren't paying attention. That's your own fault, not the film's.

The fun part is that, we don't know exactly what David said to the engineer. We assume that he did what he was supposed to, ie asking for prolonged life for Weyland, but we're not certain. You weren't supposed to "go to an outside source". That was the whole point. You were supposed to speculate.

I imagine an almighty adult who's been a fan so much longer than myself would have understood this. :monkey1

David: "Hey, help this guy out."

Engineer: "HULK SMASH!"

...it just makes no sense from any logical perspective, as anyone not blinded by positive bias can see. Makes. no. sense. Stupid storytelling.
I see you're still babbling on about this after i've already explained it to you atleast a dozen times. What you're doing is called "trolling". It's what you would expect most seventeen-year-olds to do. :monkey1

Speculation, mystery, requiring you to use your mind..to think. That is not bad storytelling. The fact that you can't understand anything that isn't literally shoved down your throat is YOUR fault. Not the film's.

But yeah, I guess you just failed to read this and all of the other possible explanations that have been given?

Lar'ja Thwei said:
David speaks to the Engineer BEFORE he pats him on the head. Pay attention.

So, no, you can't say with complete certainty that whatever David said is what caused him to kill the crew. We can speculate that he was most likely going to kill them either way. He doesn't give a ____ about our silly problems (weyland wanting to live forever). He took a few seconds to analyze the situation and make a decision.

He knew what needed to be done. He knew that whatever threat that killed his crew mates two thousand years ago must have been long gone if the humans made it there alive. He knew that humans had evolved a great deal. He knew that he needed to complete his mission ASAP.

..and he probably stroked David's hair because he found him to be interesting or pure because he was actually capable of speaking the Engineer language. Or because he was slightly amazed at how far one of his race's own creations have come....they were now able to create life themselves.



As for our resident apologist's attempts to attack, I only have this to say:

Apologist: "Now you're acting as if your opinion is a complete fact."

Ditto, young'un. Ditto. :snake
I'm an apologist who is attempting to attack you? Don't you think you might be acting just a wee bit dramatic here?

And I see that you skipped over my entire response to your incessant whining about non-existent issues only to pick out a single comment I made and attempt to use it as an insult against me without having any evidence as to how it even applies to me. :lol


p.s. I don't literally consider Alien and Aliens "infallible." Its just that compared to the logistical train-wreck we are discussing, they might as well be. And that is about as far as I got re that post, because walls of text ftl. No offense.
The only train-wrecks here are your constant, dim-witted ramblings. :wave
 
First off Lar'ja Thwei, don't sweat these guys comments about your age, they just utterly DESTROYED any credibility they had with their comments above. :lol

NO ONE who saw Alien in 1979 and considered it "infallible" would ever say the same of Aliens. Most of what Cameron did was rehash Scott's work but with less beautiful cinematography and worse actors. With the unique slant of a Viet Nam backdrop. Believe me, I had to hear that ad nauseum in the 90's from disgruntled Alien fans put off that Cameron made the series more accessible to the masses with "ra ra" military adventure. No more "perfect organism" that can't be killed, just a bunch of bugs that can be quickly put down if they find themselves at the business end of an assault rifle.

So it sounds like we have a number of fellows who saw Aliens first, fell in love, by default include Alien in that love, and are now resistant to further deviation from Cameron's formula. I'm not telling anyone what their opinion is, but as someone who *has* been here a while, that's certainly what it looks like.

I saw Aliens in 1986 (thank you very much ;)) and could NOT believe that the marines were stupid enough to interrupt Ripley in the middle of her briefing and didn't even let her finish explaining what they were up against! First viewing, 1986, and I sat there thinking "are you EFFING kidding me? They don't even care!?? Morons, they're all going to die, all of them and good freaking riddance."

So take that Prometheus haters. :nana:

But I love Aliens. Love it love it love it. Was my top 2 movie of all time after The Empire Strikes Back (ahead of ANH and ROTJ!) until the LOTR trilogy came along and pushed those two movies down a few notches.

And I love Prometheus. And what you really need to do is look at the entirety of the story and then backtrack, adjusting expectations accordingly. It's what we did with Aliens and what we should do today. See in Aliens it was kind of an eye-roller that the colonists just HAPPENED to find the derelict the same week Ripley woke up just to give her an opportunity to go on another adventure. Until you learn that Burke gave the order to investigate based on Ripley's story. Similarly a lot of what the marines do is pretty idiotic purely based on the position of Gorman and his near complete incompetence. But who put Gorman in charge of the unit at the last minute? Someone who possibly didn't want a stronger leader as competition? Someone like Burke? They seemed pretty chummy when visiting Ripley in her apartment. And suddenly when you backtrack with Burke's motivations there's a whole new light on the entire series of events. It wasn’t just a straight “rescue mission” it was a “cover my ass and erase the evidence” mission initiated by one man.

Now let’s look at Prometheus. Scientists in search of answers regarding the origin of mankind to satisfy a deep curiosity within their souls? Some of whom behave foolishly? No, at it’s core that’s actually not what the mission was about. That was the motivation of Shaw and Holloway, but only Shaw and Holloway. Weylan was pulling the strings, footing the bill, and calling the shots. And what was his mission? To seek out immortality. EVERYTHING/ONE was put into place by him to fulfill that desire. And that brings up an absolutely brilliant twist. That Peter Weylan, founder of Weylan Industries (sorry AvP fans) was not actually looking for a bioweapon of mass destruction. No, he was searching for the key to prolong life. What a brilliant and ironic twist.

And that turns all the preceding scenes completely upside down. David was not poisoning Holloway to test out a weapon, he was testing potential holy grails. And I mean that literally. Think Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Weylan has seen it. And he has deducted that the Engineers created us, created us to be mortal, and possibly created harmful organisms (that is those that already exist on our planet) as a “checks and balances” system to prevent their creations from getting out of control. So Weylan knows that there might be an untainted, tangible method at the Engineers’ disposal to do away with said checks and balances. He just doesn’t want to test the potential “immortality elixirs” himself. Again, he’s seen The Last Crusade and doesn’t want to “choose poorly.”

So he hand picks the world’s greatest “Steve Irwins” (GREAT analogy Frank, no joke :duff) who are willing to risk death (just by going into hypersleep!) in search of knowledge/adventure/money and therefore act as his oblivious pawns. These are guys who did not risk their very lives and half a decade of their lives (just in the round trip alone) to show up and keep their space helmets on or not interact with the flora and fauna of this unprecedented new world. And with that in mind some of the choices of the crew are not “poor characterization” at all. The real Steve Irwin proved that.

Of course Vickers proves to be a bit of a fly in the anointment for him as she has a lot more to lose (as opposed to Weylan who is only going to live a short few months/years if his mission fails) and she actively works to *prevent* the crew from getting to close to harmful organisms and thereby exposing her.

When they get there it appears that all Engineers are dead and all David can do is systematically start testing crap on the crew in the hopes that they find a cure for “death.” And that’s another amazing twist on our assumptions. Until the very end he seems to be continuing in the tradition of Ash, placing the expendable crew in harm’s way to discover the perfect weapon. But if the black goo worked differently he would have made Holloway the very first beneficiary of immortality! So Alien gave us an evil android, Aliens a good android, and Prometheus one that was completely neutral. A droid that would put someone’s life at risk and then help them immediately after, all for the greater good of finding a way to cheat death. Awesome.

As for the berzerking engineer, again, think Indiana Jones. They did NOT best him in single combat and therefore proved themselves unworthy of the secrets of eternal life. ;) I say that tongue planted firmly in cheek but the truth is we don’t know WHAT the criteria were for being worthy of addressing an Engineer, whatever it was some succeeded in a sense (as he did not initially pursue Shaw) and some did not (everyone else.)
You just have to keep in mind that Weylan is the “Burke” of Prometheus and pretty much most/all of the alleged holes/mischaracterizations suddenly diminish or disappear altogether once that is revealed. Brilliant movie. Not perfect (and neither are Alien or Aliens) but brilliant nonetheless.




:lol:lol:lol
 
And you'd be dead wrong.

If you had half a brain, you would have known what was taking place in that scene. Peter Weyland wants to live forever. That's why they go to visit the engineer. They wake the engineer so David can ask him to grant Weyland more life. Peter Weyland even tells Elizabeth why they're going to see the engineer...to save him from death...if you didn't understand that, you weren't paying attention. That's your own fault, not the film's.

The fun part is that, we don't know exactly what David said to the engineer. We assume that he did what he was supposed to, ie asking for prolonged life for Weyland, but we're not certain. You weren't supposed to "go to an outside source". That was the whole point. You were supposed to speculate.
Jesus. You talk in the first paragraph how its clearly obvious what was going on in the scene and any idiot should know whats happening. Then in the next paragraph use all the speculation as to explain why people wouldnt know whats going on. And use them both against him in ur argument!

This thread is teh contradictory awesome!
 
Jesus. You talk in the first paragraph how its clearly obvious what was going on in the scene and any idiot should know whats happening. Then in the next paragraph use all the speculation as to explain why people wouldnt know whats going on. And use them both against him in ur argument!

This thread is teh contradictory awesome!
...wow, you should try reading that again correctly. Nothing I said was contradictory.

What's clearly obvious is the goal Weyland and co. were trying to achieve. Why they were going to talk with the engineer, what David was supposed to say, etc, etc...

We're supposed to believe, based on everything that's happened, that David is asking the engineer to prolong Weyland's life.

That is what is clearly obvious.

...but that's where the fun part comes in. We don't get subtitles. And we know that David has this sort of free will thing going on, so we're not 100% certain of what he says to the engineer.

And having this little bit of mystery and speculation thrown in does not suddenly make the scene a "failure" as Ramatool said.

The overall scene was easily understandable, and you shouldn't be confused if you paid attention.
 
Saw it a third time this weekend. Like it more and more....

Really like your take on it, Khev....I also remember all of the "backlash" towards Cameron back then...it certainly wasn't at the insane levels we see these days, though.
I'm enjoying the back-n-forth in here about it.

That's one of the signs of it's success to me...gets people talking and offering multiple interpretations of it....very cool.
 
Apologist: And you'd be dead wrong.

If you had half a brain [...]

Hey, a few posts back were you not all about how thinking your sole opinion was fact, is wrong? Nice flipflop there.

And that's as far as I got with your attempt at rebuttal. When you start with the ad hominems, that's when the argument is over as far as I'm concerned, because this tells me you're out of ammunition. Your logic has failed, so now its about name-calling. [And no.... mentioning your age isnt an ad hominem. Lucky for you it isn't, young'un. :snake ]

Apologist, there is no flip you will not flop in an attempt to defend this film. Its not about logic, its about apologia. So we're done, I think. Have a nice day!
 
I find it funny that you're not replying to any of my points about the film, but simply saying silly things like my "logic has failed", or I'm an "apologist".

And I love how you're now trying to justify repeatedly bringing up my age (7th time). Which, uh, has nothing to do with Prometheus whatsoever. :cuckoo:

Seems to me like YOU are the one out of ammunition. :monkey1
 
As I have mentioned before, any time you have to go to an outside source to find out what was going on in a given entertainment venue, said venue has failed. The mere fact that the director had to go back and clarify what happened after the fact, meant "fail."

David: "Hey, help this guy out."

Engineer: "HULK SMASH!"

...it just makes no sense from any logical perspective, as anyone not blinded by positive bias can see. Makes. no. sense. Stupid storytelling.

As for our resident apologist's attempts to attack, I only have this to say:

Apologist: "Now you're acting as if your opinion is a complete fact."

Ditto, young'un. Ditto. :snake

p.s. I don't literally consider Alien and Aliens "infallible." Its just that compared to the logistical train-wreck we are discussing, they might as well be. And that is about as far as I got re that post, because walls of text ftl. No offense.

From all I've read from you, it sounds like you shouldn't be watching movies that make you think. Maybe you should stick to movies like the Avengers that don't need thinking.
 
From all I've read from you, it sounds like you shouldn't be watching movies that make you think. Maybe you should stick to movies like the Avengers that don't need thinking.

Woah woah woah woah woah! Let's leave Avengers outta of this here....
 
Don't get me wrong, I loved the Avengers, but it doesn't take a genious to figure it out. Straight forward story.

True, but it was a very clear cut story. With that large cast, I don't think you could get any more complex without diverging from the original idea of it all.
 
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