Official "Ridley Scott's Prometheus" Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Gates70]

So ____ing what? When is a required law for films to be only thought provoking?

The Avengers is genius for what it did. That movie was a feat. Only one man could've pulled it off.

Ya ok

 

[CelticPredator]

Yeah Ok indeed. I'm speaking truth here. That movie was far harder to make then this one. And took far more thinking to do it. 5 years worth of work, for one movie.

 

[Khev]

The only thing about Aliens that always annoyed me was Newt, but since she served as a catalyst for Ripley's dormant badassery it could be overlooked.

I can't imagine Aliens without Newt, or with a different or better written Newt just because I was familiar with her in a sense from before the movie even came out. I remember Siskel and Ebert (remember them?) reviewing the movie the week it came out and they played the clip where Hicks lays out their remaining weapons and tells her not to touch the grenade. Its just burned into my psyche.

The only scene that truly annoys me in Aliens is when Newt slips out of her jacket and goes down the chute. Just a frustrating eye-roller scene that should have been staged better IMO.

I did always find Ripley's deduction that Burke was going to sabotage people's hypersleep chambers and "jettison the bodies" to be an ENORMOUS leap, even greater than Idris Elba assuming that LV-223 is a military test facility in fact, but eh, whatever.

An old rich man who wants to live longer is an ironic twist?

Yes when that man is Peter Weylan! Come on, you're really not going to concede any clever ideas from the writers of Prometheus? Weylan/Weyland has been synonymous with bioweapons of mass destruction since the series began. What a crazy thing to have the founder of the company be the one suit who didn't care about any of that. Just the opposite in fact.

That highlights one of the basic problems with this movie: it doesn't provide a clear narrative. Where did Weyland get the idea that the aliens could and therefore would extend his life?.

I just see it as an awesome reversal of the Batty/Tyrell scene in Blade Runner. Creation seeks creator to ask for his built-in shelf life to be extended. But instead of the superhuman creation killing the creator with his bare hands you get the exact opposite. Weirdly its still a scene where an android/replicant is the one doing the pleading. Very cool. Well at least I think so.

Here's the criteria: we paid money to see the engineer in action. The onus is on the director to try to make a film people want to see. Scott made it clear in the trailers and press releases that this movie will have space jockeys. Alien fans love us some space jockeys! So we get all pumped up for the big reveal... and? We get silent film stars in skinsuits without the subtitles. Are we supposed to be impressed with grainy holograms and brief cameos?

I was. It's a tricky thing to figure how much of something that mysterious to show. I guess he wanted to err on the side of Boba Fett in the OT and not Fett from the PT.

Burke had something Weyland didn't, he had dimension. So he appears at first as a harmless yuppie corporate ********* but works his way over to murderous corporate scum in the end. Weyland starts off as a desperate old guy CEO (who said you have to be old to want to live forever) and ends the same way only slightly more dead. He only has like two scenes. That's your awesome bad guy! Who cares if he said anything to the android or not? The "good" guys were doing a pretty great job of killing/mutating themselves off without anyone's help! Hey I'm surprised Halloway and Shaw didn't have a quickie behind the big head. The funny thing is, you know Halloway would have thought about it.

Very funny about Holloway and Shaw. But about Weylan I didn't say he was the "awesome bad guy" (and yes his make-up was distracting.) I see the engineer ship as the bad guy with various people trying to harness its abilities, to their demise of course. Maybe too "Event Horizon" for some (or many) though I consider Prometheus light years better than EH.

Anyway, we might agree to disagree, but I hope we try to keep away from the personal attacks. If my diatribes came off that way, I apologize and feel free to deduct 10 internets from my overall score. I do rip into these movies pretty harshly, but I like discussing this stuff with you guys. Great food for thought!

If you've read this far, give yourself 1,000 internets.

Or a "Didn't Read!" gif.

Hmm, I think I cut up too much of your post because I was going to respond to the bit about the divide between Alien/Aliens fans and now I can't find it. Oops.

Anyway did you ever do anything on newsgroups in the 90's? There was this one group on usenet called alt.fan.alien and MAN if you were an Aliens fan you had to weather quite the ____storm from disgruntled Alien geezers. This discussion actually takes me back to then. Haven't chatted up a novel about a movie in a long time. Cheers.*

* (like I ever close a discussion with "cheers" in real life.) Its so funny what the internet does to you.

 

[Khev]

Saw it a third time this weekend. Like it more and more....

Really like your take on it, Khev....I also remember all of the "backlash" towards Cameron back then...it certainly wasn't at the insane levels we see these days, though.
I'm enjoying the back-n-forth in here about it.

That's one of the signs of it's success to me...gets people talking and offering multiple interpretations of it....very cool.

Thanks and agreed! I need to see a second time on the big screen before too long as well.

 

[Devil_666]

5 years worth of work, for one movie.

Prometheus has been in development since 2002.

 

[Khev]

And Jurassic Park toke 65 million years. Says so on the poster and everything.

 

[wavestuff]

saw prometheus for a second time and noticed a few things i didnt on the first

1. vickers telling captain "you should be making your way down" and he replies "i haven't had breakfast yet" which is funny when its in context to what happens later in the movie

2. baby jesus on the pool table when david is about to infect that dbag. which connects nicely to a christ theory on an article posted some 100 pages back.

3. still not clear to me how david manages to open doors and speak alien but thats a small detail when all the other big ones are still unrational

4. the ship flying crew is smarter than the scientists by listening to the captain telling them not to touch the vases.

5. when shaw is about to put to sleep she knocks out the irish/scottish woman, she then goes on to get her c section, and then when she discovers wayland is alive and irish/scottish woman is there not miffed one bit about the fact she got knocked out by shaw (again not as big detail as the others aforementioned)

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

3. still not clear to me how david manages to open doors and speak alien but thats a small detail when all the other big ones are still unrational

5. when shaw is about to put to sleep she knocks out the irish/scottish woman, she then goes on to get her c section, and then when she discovers wayland is alive and irish/scottish woman is there not miffed one bit about the fact she got knocked out by shaw (again not as big detail as the others aforementioned)

It's "irrational", not "unrational". By the way.

He's an android. That's how. He spent two years deciphering ancient languages while they were all in hypersleep. He tells this to Charlie and Shaw. He says somthing like... "I believe I can speak to them given your thesis is correct Mr. Holloway". Somthing along those lines.

Atleast I think they were talking about speaking to the engineers...maybe not.

But either way, he's an android. His brain is a computer that can pick up on small details almost instantly.


I don't see why Ford would want to talk to Shaw about hitting her when they're about to go meet the last engineer.

It's like..yeah, it happened..more important things to deal with now.


Did Ford know Weyland was alive? I assume she did...


I need to see the movie again.

 

[CelticPredator]

Prometheus has been in development since 2002.

You know that mans nothing.

Production for the avengers started right as iron man and hulk went into production. Took 5 movies to make one. Thats impressive.

 

[greygoose]

I'm surprised no-one's asked the biggest question of them all: Do androids poo?

 

[CelticPredator]

Everybody poos.

 

[Frank]

I just got 1000 internets? Sweet! And yes, I read Frank's entire post. Very good read indeed! I agree with him on just about everything he said too. Which is why I like reading this thread since I learn about the depth of the story behind this movie. I really need to watch this again.

I was so awe-struck by the imagery of this film (much like the 79 Alien), I unfortunately missed some things many of you have pointed out. I drew my own conclusions upon walking out of the theater but these threads make me question them further. Again, this is a fantastic thread.

The landscapes were amazing! Ridley can paint a pretty picture can't he?

BTW, I'm glad that my comments haven't crushed your soul yet!

I can't imagine Aliens without Newt, or with a different or better written Newt just because I was familiar with her in a sense from before the movie even came out. I remember Siskel and Ebert (remember them?) reviewing the movie the week it came out and they played the clip where Hicks lays out their remaining weapons and tells her not to touch the grenade. Its just burned into my psyche.

Siskel went out way too early and Ebert lost his jaw... You'd think God must have really liked Patch Adams!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIp9_8wnFbs[/ame]

But I digress, Newt did have her moments.

The only scene that truly annoys me in Aliens is when Newt slips out of her jacket and goes down the chute. Just a frustrating eye-roller scene that should have been staged better IMO.

Totally agreed there. It was painfully contrived as it was.

I did always find Ripley's deduction that Burke was going to sabotage people's hypersleep chambers and "jettison the bodies" to be an ENORMOUS leap, even greater than Idris Elba assuming that LV-223 is a military test facility in fact, but eh, whatever.

You're right, she did go off on a tangent there! Fact remains that his actions were leading them to be guinea pigs in some capacity. Whether or not it included using them as hosts, he still had a hard-on for getting at least one specimen back to the corporation.

As for Idris' revelation, I found it odd that an advanced spaceship located at said "military installation" couldn't have easily neutralized the Prometheus at first sight. Guess the weapons didn't hold up as well as the rest of the ship.

Yes when that man is Peter Weylan! Come on, you're really not going to concede any clever ideas from the writers of Prometheus? Weylan/Weyland has been synonymous with bioweapons of mass destruction since the series began. What a crazy thing to have the founder of the company be the one suit who didn't care about any of that. Just the opposite in fact.

Oh yeah, it's absolutely true that everyone familiar with the franchise expects Weyland to be the corrupt bad guy who is inordinately obsessed with developing bio-weapons. If the way his corporation is run in the future is any indication, it had to have started somewhere right? Unfortunately, that issue was tabled completely in exchange for a very natural preoccupation. Merely wanting to live longer isn't a "good" or "bad" thing, but it is a "soft" thing. He is weak in nearly every sense. He can't stand on his own without his personal powerloader gear and his fear of death is so great that it compromises the entire mission. He doesn't make any progress as a character nor does he react honestly to anything else going on around him. To me that just screams "wasted opportunity".

I just see it as an awesome reversal of the Batty/Tyrell scene in Blade Runner. Creation seeks creator to ask for his built-in shelf life to be extended. But instead of the superhuman creation killing the creator with his bare hands you get the exact opposite. Weirdly its still a scene where an android/replicant is the one doing the pleading. Very cool. Well at least I think so.

It might have worked had their respective roles been fleshed out. What if Batty had only two scenes out of the entire movie to establish himself? What if we never got to hear him and Tyrell match wits?

I was. It's a tricky thing to figure how much of something that mysterious to show. I guess he wanted to err on the side of Boba Fett in the OT and not Fett from the PT.

Fair enough. What was kind of strange to me was that if David could so easily tap into those ancient holograms, wouldn't it stand to reason that he could keep going back until they saw exactly what caused them to run down the hall in the first place like a herd of wildebeasts?

When I first saw pics of the "Head" room, I saw the big jockey-sized body on the floor by the entrance. My first thought was what if this were some kind of sacrificial room were they offered their lives to create what would eventually become the first xenomorphs. Of course this wasn't even close to what happened, but accidently being decapitated by a closing door? The first "god" they see is a candidate for the galactic Darwin Awards. Foreshadowing perhaps?

Very funny about Holloway and Shaw. But about Weylan I didn't say he was the "awesome bad guy" (and yes his make-up was distracting.) I see the engineer ship as the bad guy with various people trying to harness its abilities, to their demise of course. Maybe too "Event Horizon" for some (or many) though I consider Prometheus light years better than EH.

Weyland could have been good or evil but we never got a chance to fairly assess him. He could have been been the "bad guy" had he followed along the Ash/Burke path if it was revealed to us that he actually did order the human experimentation, but he never got called on it like the other two did. It could've just as easily been David himself who decided to spike Holloway's drink and you have Weyland coming off as misunderstood if not completely useless. At any rate, we're expected to blissfully wallow in our own conjecture or else comb the internet for Ridley Scott quotes. Should "Some Assembly Required After Viewing" be added to the ratings system?

Event Horizon. The most visceral demonic orgy of blood in space. There's something about being the king of your own island. A very, very small island but still.

Hmm, I think I cut up too much of your post because I was going to respond to the bit about the divide between Alien/Aliens fans and now I can't find it. Oops.

Anyway did you ever do anything on newsgroups in the 90's? There was this one group on usenet called alt.fan.alien and MAN if you were an Aliens fan you had to weather quite the ____storm from disgruntled Alien geezers. This discussion actually takes me back to then. Haven't chatted up a novel about a movie in a long time. Cheers.*

* (like I ever close a discussion with "cheers" in real life.) Its so funny what the internet does to you.

No, I didn't do newsgroups back then, so I guess I missed out on all the fun . Think of all the "egg-forming vs cocoon" discussions I could have had!

I can totally understand where that came from though. Aliens vs. Army is ludicrous on the face of it, but like I said before they made it work. Prometheus took what should have been a slam dunk and threw it out into the stands. Whether it will become as beloved as Aliens, I could be wrong, but time will tell on that one.

Good points all around. The best discussions force me to think harderer. Until the next debate!

* go duff yourself then

** Another 1,000 internet points for all the times I mispelled "Holloway".

 

[abake]

Not sure if this has been posted before:

https://www.whatis101112.com/

Lots of really brilliant stuff there.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

I want to work for Weyland Industries...

 

[wavestuff]

It's "irrational", not "unrational". By the way.

He's an android. That's how. He spent two years deciphering ancient languages while they were all in hypersleep. He tells this to Charlie and Shaw. He says somthing like... "I believe I can speak to them given your thesis is correct Mr. Holloway". Somthing along those lines.

Atleast I think they were talking about speaking to the engineers...maybe not.

But either way, he's an android. His brain is a computer that can pick up on small details almost instantly.

i get that David could possibly decipher a language, still doesn't explain how he can open doors. i know how to read a lock but that doesn't mean i can find its combination.

....thanks for the correction by the way

 

[Moonloop]

i get that David could possibly decipher a language, still doesn't explain how he can open doors. i know how to read a lock but that doesn't mean i can find its combination.

....thanks for the correction by the way

Like some doors have text that say "push/pull to open". The way David opened the door could have been the engineers version of "push door to open" (not literally).

I agree it's kinda a "huh?" moment, but I think too many little things are being questioned in this movie. Larger ideas in the film are questioned which is leading to every little plot detail being broken down. David knew what he was doing.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

i get that David could possibly decipher a language, still doesn't explain how he can open doors. i know how to read a lock but that doesn't mean i can find its combination.

Well, he did open it. Which means he must have known how. How could he have known?

Maybe the buttons/engravings he pushed were actually letters in the engineer language or somthing?

Maybe when he saw the square tablet, somthing just clicked in his mind..somthing he remembered from his two-year studies...

It's like that Jeopardy robot thing. It takes all of the information it's gathered, searches through it, and comes out with the best answer possible.
But this is in the year 2093, so imagine how far somthing like that would have come.

We're supposed to trust that he's an android and that he knows what he's doing.

 

[Rorywan]

Is it really any different than Indiana Jones opening a tomb by pressing the correct symbol or hieroglyphic? It's a case of having a base understanding of the language and using instinct.

I actually had no problem with this in the movie. However, I had more plot issues with Prometheus than I have had with any movie for years. And I don't mean ambiguous, vague, intellectually left of field plotting, I mean stuff that just doesn't make any sense and comes across as silly.

Still loved it though.

 

[Khev]

No, I didn't do newsgroups back then, so I guess I missed out on all the fun . Think of all the "egg-forming vs cocoon" discussions I could have had!

Count your blessings!

Prometheus took what should have been a slam dunk and threw it out into the stands. Whether it will become as beloved as Aliens, I could be wrong, but time will tell on that one.

Yeah, hard to say. Rottentomatoes lists a straight 73% across the board with regard to all critics, top critics, and audience approval. Many cult movies have much lower ratings than that so I'd say Prometheus has a better than average chance to age quite well over time. We'll see.

 

[greygoose]

Many cult movies have much lower ratings than that so I'd say Prometheus has a better than average chance to age quite well over time. We'll see.

Prometheus will gain a big cult following over the next 10/20 years. It's inevitable.