Official "Ridley Scott's Prometheus" Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[greygoose]

Wait... so the film was about the spaceship the whole time?

It was the only statement that I could write that people can't try and attack or say isn't true.

 

[CelticPredator]

Don't get me wrong, I loved the Avengers, but it doesn't take a genious to figure it out. Straight forward story.

So ____ing what? When is a required law for films to be only thought provoking?

The Avengers is genius for what it did. That movie was a feat. Only one man could've pulled it off.

 

[Devil_666]

Only one man could've pulled it off.

Batman?

 

[CelticPredator]

Comish Gordon actually.

 

[Kabukiman]

The Avengers is genius for what it did. That movie was a feat. Only one man could've pulled it off.

Michael Bay?

 

[greygoose]

Batman?

Jesus.

 

[Sachiel]

The Sacrificial Engineer. Without him none of this would have been possible.

 

[screamingmetal]

I finally got to see this last night, impressive images and intriguing story, but left too many open ended questions without clear answers and an ending without closure. It also felt a bit disjointed with the horror elements showing up so late in the film.
Having had some time to think about it, I get why the Engineers were going to destroy humanity, the hints were dropped throughout the film as David said "doesn't everyone want their parents dead" The Engineers were trying to prevent that.
I liked Prometheus and would probably like it more after I see the sequel to have a conclusion to this film.

 

[CelticPredator]

Bay is space jesus created by the jockies. Now you understand why the turtles must be aliens.

 

[Sachiel]

The engineers created the ooze.

 

[CelticPredator]

 

[fosing]

here's the first prototype of the goo....aka the blob. lolz

 

[Matt S]

Saw this for a 2nd time, and it held up better than I expected. I hate the Biologist dude, however. I enjoyed his death much more this time

 

[Frank]

So, its doubled its cost now. Hope someone pursues a second movie.

I'll definitely see it too. Like an evolved phoenix from the dissolved DNA of Prometheus.

Wait... so the film was about the spaceship the whole time?

Definitely had more depth than most of the crew...

And now, the motherload!



Haha, seriously Khev! This is your fault!

First off Lar'ja Thwei, don't sweat these guys comments about your age, they just utterly DESTROYED any credibility they had with their comments above.

It was a joke really but as far as the fanbase today is concerned, it's pretty much the truth. Besides, there are reasons why they stand up today despite their flaws and why this one is floating in space.

NO ONE who saw Alien in 1979 and considered it "infallible" would ever say the same of Aliens. Most of what Cameron did was rehash Scott's work but with less beautiful cinematography and worse actors. With the unique slant of a Viet Nam backdrop. Believe me, I had to hear that ad nauseum in the 90's from disgruntled Alien fans put off that Cameron made the series more accessible to the masses with "ra ra" military adventure. No more "perfect organism" that can't be killed, just a bunch of bugs that can be quickly put down if they find themselves at the business end of an assault rifle.

So it sounds like we have a number of fellows who saw Aliens first, fell in love, by default include Alien in that love, and are now resistant to further deviation from Cameron's formula. I'm not telling anyone what their opinion is, but as someone who *has* been here a while, that's certainly what it looks like.

Maybe I should check the various fan groups out there, but is there a substantial divide between them on these movies? I don't see it. No, the soldier thing was a tough sell imo. They only made it work because they put in a considerable amount of effort into developing their characters. In other words: the human element. This is Prometheus' um, achilles heel.

I saw Aliens in 1986 (thank you very much ) and could NOT believe that the marines were stupid enough to interrupt Ripley in the middle of her briefing and didn't even let her finish explaining what they were up against! First viewing, 1986, and I sat there thinking "are you EFFING kidding me? They don't even care!?? Morons, they're all going to die, all of them and good freaking riddance."

So take that Prometheus haters.

Oh man, I guess the truth is out geezer!

You're welcome!

They were cocky elite soldiers, not uber elite scientists. Ripley hadn't earned their respect and wasn't part of their group. I mean take your pick! So they didn't take the threat seriously. We're talking about hardened warriors who are to the packed to the gourd with all sorts of firepower. Cockiness and arrogance is part of the territory for these types anyway.

Their hubris was rewarded in due time, but the writers and actors took care to give each soldier a personality that helped endear them to the audience. I can't believe for one minute anyone would think that ragtag group of one-dimensional science spelunkers from Prometheus would be as credible as the colonial marines were in Aliens. I really wanted them to live up to the legacy though and that's why I make the comparison.

The Colonial Marines cast spent weeks in a boot camp of sorts before filming. They had an actual marine sergeant in their ranks as well. By the time cameras rolled, their comraderie wasn't an act! Prometheus has scientists/geologist/cultural anthropologists that well, take stuff to the lab to analyze. They don't really build connections with one another (meet me in 10 minutes doesn't count) and Shaw was already in a relationship with Halloway. Did anyone notice how the sparks were really flying there? No? David once again steals everyone's thunder (or in this case fire) when Vickers goes for the choke hold. Hurt me Charlize, hurt me! Still bland.

The only thing about Aliens that always annoyed me was Newt, but since she served as a catalyst for Ripley's dormant badassery it could be overlooked.

But I love Aliens. Love it love it love it. Was my top 2 movie of all time after The Empire Strikes Back (ahead of ANH and ROTJ!) until the LOTR trilogy came along and pushed those two movies down a few notches.

And I love Prometheus. And what you really need to do is look at the entirety of the story and then backtrack, adjusting expectations accordingly. It's what we did with Aliens and what we should do today. See in Aliens it was kind of an eye-roller that the colonists just HAPPENED to find the derelict the same week Ripley woke up just to give her an opportunity to go on another adventure. Until you learn that Burke gave the order to investigate based on Ripley's story. Similarly a lot of what the marines do is pretty idiotic purely based on the position of Gorman and his near complete incompetence. But who put Gorman in charge of the unit at the last minute? Someone who possibly didn't want a stronger leader as competition? Someone like Burke? They seemed pretty chummy when visiting Ripley in her apartment. And suddenly when you backtrack with Burke's motivations there's a whole new light on the entire series of events. It wasn’t just a straight “rescue mission” it was a “cover my ass and erase the evidence” mission initiated by one man.

But that's the thing, the story unfolded as you watched it. You, the viewer are shown exactly what the motivation was and the characters in the movie got the chance to react to it physically and emotionally. When they do react, it needs to be an appropriate and believable response for the characters. That's payoff! That's the key to immersion. Guess what is largely missing from Prometheus? That's why it's merely average. No amount of backtracking is going to fix that.

Now let’s look at Prometheus. Scientists in search of answers regarding the origin of mankind to satisfy a deep curiosity within their souls? Some of whom behave foolishly? No, at it’s core that’s actually not what the mission was about. That was the motivation of Shaw and Holloway, but only Shaw and Holloway. Weylan was pulling the strings, footing the bill, and calling the shots. And what was his mission? To seek out immortality. EVERYTHING/ONE was put into place by him to fulfill that desire. And that brings up an absolutely brilliant twist. That Peter Weylan, founder of Weylan Industries (sorry AvP fans) was not actually looking for a bioweapon of mass destruction. No, he was searching for the key to prolong life. What a brilliant and ironic twist.

An old rich man who wants to live longer is an ironic twist? It might have been a twist if he had David test the goop on his own daughter and see him react to something. Maybe even an animated expression! That would have been nice. To be fair, he might have arched an eyebrow at some point. It was hard to tell through that Yogurt mask.

And while we're on Peter, does the movie take any effort to inform us how Weyland became such a rich and powerful man? Do we ever get to see an illustration of his genius? All we know is that he wants to live longer. Oh and his daughter apparently wants him to die, but we don't care about her either. That's it.

And that turns all the preceding scenes completely upside down. David was not poisoning Holloway to test out a weapon, he was testing potential holy grails. And I mean that literally. Think Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Weylan has seen it. And he has deducted that the Engineers created us, created us to be mortal, and possibly created harmful organisms (that is those that already exist on our planet) as a “checks and balances” system to prevent their creations from getting out of control. So Weylan knows that there might be an untainted, tangible method at the Engineers’ disposal to do away with said checks and balances. He just doesn’t want to test the potential “immortality elixirs” himself. Again, he’s seen The Last Crusade and doesn’t want to “choose poorly.”

That highlights one of the basic problems with this movie: it doesn't provide a clear narrative. Where did Weyland get the idea that the aliens could and therefore would extend his life? Why is that the first thing David feels compelled to ask the Engineer? If you answered "He wanted to help his master", or "he wanted to piss off the Engineer to kill off all the petty humans" you're all wrong. We aren't allowed to come to any conclusion because vital information is witheld from the viewer. How did Halloway come to the conclusion that the Engineers must have created us? All is assumed, nothing is explained. I'm sure David knows though!

Goop theories abound, but since the movie is so needlessly obstructive regarding the purpose of exposing the crew, nothing sticks. Wouldn't a ship dedicated to scientific expeditions keep some animal test subjects anyhow? Why keep Weyland's commands away from the audience? David has no problem expressing his disdain for the human race... Can't he make his own decisions?

This movie is less of a plot than a meandering conspiracy theory.

So he hand picks the world’s greatest “Steve Irwins” (GREAT analogy Frank, no joke ) who are willing to risk death (just by going into hypersleep!) in search of knowledge/adventure/money and therefore act as his oblivious pawns. These are guys who did not risk their very lives and half a decade of their lives (just in the round trip alone) to show up and keep their space helmets on or not interact with the flora and fauna of this unprecedented new world. And with that in mind some of the choices of the crew are not “poor characterization” at all. The real Steve Irwin proved that.

I aim to please! Cheers

You expect marines to be rough around the edges, but scientists, anthropologists and geologists?!? Where's their instincts as careful, methodical professionals? Even Steve Irwin needed the right tools for his job and yet these guys are walking around with duffle bags big enough to carry a giant head and a cannister of goop but very little in the way instrumentation. Fifield had his "pups" but didn't have access to the maps they were creating. I mean wuh-what? LOL.

Like a pretentious piece of modern art, you don't know what you're looking at. After awhile you stop looking.

Of course Vickers proves to be a bit of a fly in the anointment for him as she has a lot more to lose (as opposed to Weylan who is only going to live a short few months/years if his mission fails) and she actively works to *prevent* the crew from getting to close to harmful organisms and thereby exposing her.

When they get there it appears that all Engineers are dead and all David can do is systematically start testing crap on the crew in the hopes that they find a cure for “death.” And that’s another amazing twist on our assumptions. Until the very end he seems to be continuing in the tradition of Ash, placing the expendable crew in harm’s way to discover the perfect weapon. But if the black goo worked differently he would have made Holloway the very first beneficiary of immortality! So Alien gave us an evil android, Aliens a good android, and Prometheus one that was completely neutral. A droid that would put someone’s life at risk and then help them immediately after, all for the greater good of finding a way to cheat death. Awesome.

David never gives us a reason to think he really cares about anyone besides himself. Fassbender plays him with his own special creepy kind of menace and I wish we did know more about what makes him "tick". Where is the impetus for him to help? He seemed ready to snap at any moment.

As for the berzerking engineer, again, think Indiana Jones. They did NOT best him in single combat and therefore proved themselves unworthy of the secrets of eternal life. I say that tongue planted firmly in cheek but the truth is we don’t know WHAT the criteria were for being worthy of addressing an Engineer, whatever it was some succeeded in a sense (as he did not initially pursue Shaw) and some did not (everyone else.)

Here's the criteria: we paid money to see the engineer in action. The onus is on the director to try to make a film people want to see. Scott made it clear in the trailers and press releases that this movie will have space jockeys. Alien fans love us some space jockeys! So we get all pumped up for the big reveal... and? We get silent film stars in skinsuits without the subtitles. Are we supposed to be impressed with grainy holograms and brief cameos?

He could have done way better. Expectations are notoriously impossible to fulfill, but I think between the two scripts he lost his footing. In previous films, the aliens get to come off as way smarter than they we are comfortable with and here these guys don't get to form words out of their mouths. They chickened out!

Okay then Guvnah, I'll see you on their home world.

You just have to keep in mind that Weylan is the “Burke” of Prometheus and pretty much most/all of the alleged holes/mischaracterizations suddenly diminish or disappear altogether once that is revealed. Brilliant movie. Not perfect (and neither are Alien or Aliens) but brilliant nonetheless.

Burke had something Weyland didn't, he had dimension. So he appears at first as a harmless yuppie corporate ********* but works his way over to murderous corporate scum in the end. Weyland starts off as a desperate old guy CEO (who said you have to be old to want to live forever) and ends the same way only slightly more dead. He only has like two scenes. That's your awesome bad guy! Who cares if he said anything to the android or not? The "good" guys were doing a pretty great job of killing/mutating themselves off without anyone's help! Hey I'm surprised Halloway and Shaw didn't have a quickie behind the big head. The funny thing is, you know Halloway would have thought about it.






Anyway, we might agree to disagree, but I hope we try to keep away from the personal attacks. If my diatribes came off that way, I apologize and feel free to deduct 10 internets from my overall score. I do rip into these movies pretty harshly, but I like discussing this stuff with you guys. Great food for thought!

If you've read this far, give yourself 1,000 internets.

Or a "Didn't Read!" gif.

 

[Sachiel]

If you've read this far, give yourself 1,000 internets.

What if I skipped to the end?

I kid, I kid.

 

[Frank]

What if I skipped to the end?

I kid, I kid.

I wouldn't blame you one bit.

 

[Devil_666]

I'll

Good Point.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I miss the computer called "mother".

 

[Viking Spawn]

I just got 1000 internets? Sweet! And yes, I read Frank's entire post. Very good read indeed! I agree with him on just about everything he said too. Which is why I like reading this thread since I learn about the depth of the story behind this movie. I really need to watch this again.

I was so awe-struck by the imagery of this film (much like the 79 Alien), I unfortunately missed some things many of you have pointed out. I drew my own conclusions upon walking out of the theater but these threads make me question them further. Again, this is a fantastic thread.

 

[Frank]

Good Point.

See? I'm glad someone finally agrees.