Official "The Dark Knight" SPOILER Thread

[CelticPredator]

Mabye it could be Sal Maroni!


Eric Roberts was awesome.

 

[Lord Aykroyd]

is lesser know like Ra's

Ra's may be lesser known to Batman movie fans, but he has always been a staple in the comics. In fact, he is Batman's ONLY true equal. The joker may be his arch nemesis from one point of view but Ra's has always been his arch nemesis from the Moriarty versus Holms point of view.

 

[Natrix]

I imagine the 5th might be the bartender.

It wasn't the bartender, it was the crooked cop that kidnapped Dent that was in the bar while the bartender was in the bathroom.

 

[The Mike]

Ra's may be lesser known to Batman movie fans, but he has always been a staple in the comics. In fact, he is Batman's ONLY true equal. The joker may be his arch nemesis from one point of view but Ra's has always been his arch nemesis from the Moriarty versus Holms point of view.

Ras made his appearance in 1971. Black Mask made his in 1985.

If you go by the history of the character there is a direct tie to Bruce:

Black Mask's origin story was established in his first appearance. Roman Sionis was born into one of Gotham City’s elite families, to wealthy and utterly self-absorbed parents, caring more about their social status than their son; moments after his birth, the doctor carelessly dropped him on his head. Roman's parents were less concerned about their son's well-being and more concerned about covering up the entire incident out of fear of how their wealthy friends would react to the news of their son's injury. A second incident occurred when he was a child. While at the Sinois family country estate he was attacked by a rabid raccoon. This incident was also covered up by the Sionis family, who forbid Roman to mention it to anyone.

Further adding to the cauldron was his father's "friendship" with Thomas Wayne; both of Roman's parents disliked the Waynes and were quite vocal about it in private with their son. However, to their son's dismay, they continued to associate with Thomas and Martha Wayne and pretended to be friends with the couple, to the extent of literally forcing him to become friends with their son, Bruce. His parents' hypocrisy had a deep impact on him, and he grew to hate and resent them and the "masks" they wore in public.
After his high school graduation, Sionis was given a high ranking position inside his father's company, Janus Cosmetics. There, he met and fell in love with Circe, a working class secretary. His parents didn't approve of the relationship and made it clear that they wanted it ended. Enraged, Roman burned down the family's mansion, killing both of his parents. Upon their deaths, he inherited the family fortune and business. Roman wasn't the businessman his father was, however, and eventually ruined Janus Cosmetics by funding a line of face-paint make-up which failed. In desperation, he threw large sums of money at the staff chemists to create a product to save the company, and what came back to him was a kind of water-proof makeup. The product was rushed to market without proper testing, and once it hit the market turned out to be a deadly toxin which disfigured several hundred women.

Circe, now Sionis' fiancé, broke up with him in front of his entire staff. At that time, now successful mogul Bruce Wayne offered to bail out the company on the condition that Sionis give up control and allow Wayne to appoint his own Board of Directors. Sionis agreed, but was furious at the humiliation he had suffered. He went to the family mausoleum and broke his mother's ebony coffin lid. From a piece of this, Sionis carved a mask, becoming 'Black Mask'

Not to mention it'd tie nicely to Lucius and the Wayne aspect that The Joker didn't but Ras did:

Sionis found he had an amazing aptitude for crime, and he soon had a large gang working for him. Calling them the False Face Society, the one requirement was that all members must select a mask from his collection and wear it at all times when on the job and in his presence. They were successfully gaining power in the Gotham underworld, until Black Mask decided it was time to take his revenge on Bruce Wayne. He began kidnapping Wayne Enterprises executives, putting masks on their faces that were coated in the deadly make-up once made by Janus Cosmetics. He also targeted Circe and forcibly disfigured her with the chemicals in order to force her to reunite with him. Circe would ultimately kill herself, leading Black Mask to replace her with a mannequin that he talked to as if it were a real person.

These kidnappings drew Batman's attention, and he began hunting down the False Facers. He slowly began to dismantle the organization until he finally found Black Mask in the ruins of the Sionis Family home. Black Mask lit the wreckage on fire trying to escape, but was caught in the burning house. Batman was able to save him, but the mask had been burned onto his face and left him disfigured.

Black Mask spent some time in Arkham Asylum, but escaped when Bane assaulted the facility in Knightfall and subsequently restarted the False Facers. He took on a new second-in-command, Tattoo (whose face was covered in a tattoo mask pattern), and he began burning down Wayne properties. This time he also kidnapped Lucius Fox, CEO of Waynetech and friend of Bruce Wayne. Batman infiltrated the gang and was able to save Fox from Black Mask's torture, and even brought in Tattoo, but Black Mask escaped.

Not to mention he was already planned:

When the very first details about The Dark Knight were released, they alleged that Roman Sionis/Black Mask was to be one of the antagonists of the film. He was described as an industrial heir who loses his company to Bruce Wayne and adopts the Black Mask persona for revenge. By the time Jonathan Nolan wrote the final draft, he was cut.

I wouldn't count him out especially if he was already being considered.

It wasn't the bartender, it was the crooked cop that kidnapped Dent that was in the bar while the bartender was in the bathroom.

The thought is that the reason the Bartender didn't alert the cops or try to help is because as he left to go to the bathroom Dent would have killed him there. Of course that doesn't explain not hearing a gunshot or maybe the flip was positive so he was just knocked out but like most I think there was a lot that ended up on the cutting room floor regarding Two-Face.

 

[Darklord Dave]

I'd never heard of Black Mask until recently, but ultimately he's just a crime boss and kind of boring. I don't want to see the ridiculousness of Burton's Penguin or Riddler, but if they could be reimagined along the lines of the Joker then I think they are the ones that I'd most like to see. With Selina thrown in as a love interest.

In fact playing up the theme of Batman being able to retire that was introduced in TDK, the main thrust of 3 could be family and Bruce's inability to recapture a normal family life, ironically the loss of which drove him to his mission.

 

[Ktjn]

Ra's may be lesser known to Batman movie fans, but he has always been a staple in the comics. In fact, he is Batman's ONLY true equal. The joker may be his arch nemesis from one point of view but Ra's has always been his arch nemesis from the Moriarty versus Holms point of view.

well said.

If Nolan does BM by a small minute chance, I don't think he'll have the skull look, since it might confuse the casual movie goer with TF. Also Didn't they kill off BM in the comics?

Didn't Oldman say Riddler was the next possibility? (hope not)

I don't want to see the ridiculousness of Burton's Penguin or Riddler,

I thought Carrey did a superb job with the Riddler. If anything, it's Bane who needs justice.

 

[MaulFan]

I think TDK has set itself up as a turning point film for Batman that will bridge his life from part 1 to part 3, Nolan must make 1 more to wrap up his story.

Part 1- Bruce Wayne becomes disgusted with the breakdown of Gotham and the criminality behind it and takes it upon himself to inspire Gotham to fight it and take on the underbelly alone, at the end of which he realizes that as long as he is Batman, he cannot truly live Bruce Wayne's life.

Part 2- Bruce continues to fight the underworld while working towards an end that would allow him the life he wanted to have when he returned to Gotham. At the end, Bruce realizes Gotham will always need Batman and that he must put Gotham above himself and do what the city needs him to do.

Part 3- Bruce should now fully embrace that it is his life to be Batman and to truly dedicate everything he has and is to that cause with a focus and determination on guarding Gotham and no longer distracted by his own personal motives.

 

[Lord Aykroyd]

Ras made his appearance in 1971. Black Mask made his in 1985.

Fair enough, but you have to consider that the batman we all know and love didnt really appear (or come back I guess) until 1986 with Millar's re-invention.
The fact that Ra's was around for more than a decade before hand definitely lends to the 'always' comments I made

Not to mention he was already planned:

This on the other hand makes me think twice on dissing the BM.

 

[Lord Aykroyd]

Also - didnt they set up a huge plot point for part 3 at the end of the movie with the whole 'batman is a killer angle'?

I assume a big part of the movie will be a special task force... maybe along the lines of Legends of the Dark night and the Night Scorge story line? I do love Doctor Hugo Strange...

 

[The Craw]

dont have anything new to add just now. i just want to be included in The Mike's next round of multiquoting.

 

[IrishJedi]

You know, I know he's technically a Superman character, but I kinda think Toyman could make an extremely frightening villain in Nolan's Batman world. I'd make him a very creepy child-killer who's kidnapped and murdered dozens of kids in Gotham. He goes after Gordon's children and they are abducted, so Gordon has to drop his hard-line allegience to the law and team-up with Batman again to save them.

 

[Buttmunch]

You know, I know he's technically a Superman character, but I kinda think Toyman could make an extremely frightening villain in Nolan's Batman world. I'd make him a very creepy child-killer who's kidnapped and murdered dozens of kids in Gotham. He goes after Gordon's children and they are abducted, so Gordon has to drop his hard-line allegience to the law and team-up with Batman again to save them.

Gordon's children should't be Mary Jane or Lois Lane. They aren't constantly getting captured.

 

[IrishJedi]

Fine, he can abduct Buttmunch's innocence then.

 

[Agent0028]

I don't think I can sit through a movie about kids being abducted and killed. Too close to my own work.

 

[The Mike]

dont have anything new to add just now. i just want to be included in The Mike's next round of multiquoting.

Done.

This on the other hand makes me think twice on dissing the BM.

Many people forget that he was a old timey Bat villain and that his original "mask" wasn't the Skull but a flat faced mask more like the question's "face".

You know, I know he's technically a Superman character, but I kinda think Toyman could make an extremely frightening villain in Nolan's Batman world. I'd make him a very creepy child-killer who's kidnapped and murdered dozens of kids in Gotham. He goes after Gordon's children and they are abducted, so Gordon has to drop his hard-line allegience to the law and team-up with Batman again to save them.

I don't think the Toyman could hold his weight against Batman and Nolan's Gotham but I don't discredit looking elsewhere in the DC Universe for villainy.

Gordon's children should't be Mary Jane or Lois Lane. They aren't constantly getting captured.

Agreed. The fact that Jim Gordon's son is getting the spotlight is bad enough. Anyone know whether the son is the Pre Crisis Anthony Gordon or the Post Crisis James Gordon Jr? I never did remember hearing his name....

 

[Lord Aykroyd]

Seriously - Hugo Strange = GREAT IDEA

Hugo Strange is a fictional character and supervillain in DC Comics. He first appeared in Detective Comics #36 (February 1940) and is one of the first recurring villains Batman ever faced. He preceded The Joker and Catwoman by a couple of months.

 

[The Mike]

The thing is that Hugo Strange's activities are a little farfetched for Nolan's Gotham.

Hugo Strange is a psychiatrist running a rest hospital that he uses to blackmail Gotham's elite with secrets he finds out with a machine that reads minds.

he does in fact design a robotic villain called D.A.V.E. to hunt down Batman. He pulls a gun out at Batman, thus sealing his reputation as a villain. He's currently incarcerated in Arkham Asylum, having been ironically dubbed insane by his former colleagues.

Strange drugs him with a powerful hallucinogen in order to coax Wayne into admitting that he is Batman. Batman escapes and triggers a post-hypnotic suggestion in himself, forcing him to completely repress the Batman aspect of his mind until Robin and Nightwing can thwart Strange. Believing that his theory that Bruce Wayne has been disproved, and that he may have actually killed Batman, Strange had a mental breakdown and is taken to Arkham Asylum.

Strange's experiments have literally monstrous results, with his test subjects turning into gigantic, mindless "Monster Men", possessing superhuman strength and cannibalistic instincts. Strange uses these Monster Men to raise the money he needs to pay back his Mafia connections.

 

[Buttmunch]

Fine, he can abduct Buttmunch's innocence then.

On a related note, I just ordered a 1:6 Nurse outfit

 

[The Mike]

If it doesn't have a Harvey Dent sticker on the chest it ain't worth it.

In all seriousness, I'm interesting in seeing that custom.

 

[IrishJedi]

On a related note, I just ordered a 1:6 Nurse outfit

You need to make a custom detonator as well.