Official "The Dark Knight" SPOILER Thread

[Agent0028]

But they didnt die. He needed to get them out of the situation as quicly as possible. Beating them sensless wouldnt stop ALL of them.

But he really couldn't be certain none would die. It would be completely possible for one to get a broken neck, or fall anyway, or any other number of things.

Same with the Begins car chase, one of those car crashes could easily have killed one of the occupants even if it wasn't Batman's intention.

 

[cerealkeller]

I think that's what I wanted to see most in film 3 was Two-Face become the villain with no more regard for life, just the flip of the coin determines your outcome. I guess it comes from being the Star Wars fan that I am and loved seeing Anakin go from hero to killer because something happened to completely change his world view. Your right though that Two-Face was never a villain in this film, just a vigilante who had his own brand of justice.

In part 3 I was hoping that would really be hard on Batman, to try to help this person who he held in such high regard. That's what I liked about Dark Victory and Maulfan I know you said once you don't read comics. You really should read Long Halloween and Dark Victory. Those two are the best Two-Face stories ever told.

 

[YoNoSe]

I wouldn't completely discount anything from part 3 yet, regardless of what anyone says. It's a long way off and all of the people involved are being pressured for answers due to the huge public interest. I wouldn't be surprised to see direct contradictions to anything Nolan, Goyer, or anyone else says at this early stage.

 

[CelticPredator]

But he really couldn't be certain none would die. It would be completely possible for one to get a broken neck, or fall anyway, or any other number of things.

Same with the Begins car chase, one of those car crashes could easily have killed one of the occupants even if it wasn't Batman's intention.

Yeah but, Batman isnt a nice super duper hero. He WONT directly kill people, but he may accidently.

 

[Buttmunch]

Yeah but, Batman isnt a nice super duper hero. He WONT directly kill people, but he may accidently.

Yeah, but I view his rule as an absolute. He won't kill no matter what the circumstances. And I think Nolan did that very well for the most part. I have a hard time believeing the guy in the garbage truck came out in one piece. And don't get me started on Two-face's death again

Batman's one rule is really the only thing that set him apart from Two-face in this film. Without that rule, he is just the Punisher in a cape.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

I acually prefer a Batman who kills when he has to. It was what Kane and Finger originally conceived back in 1939, and it makes him truly bad-ass and sets him apart from other heroes. Does that make him the same as his villains? Of course not. Batman kills to protect the innocent, not for self gratification.

That is why I like heroes like Rorschach and the Comedian. They don't ^^^^ around with the bad guys, and do what needs to be done.

 

[Agent0028]

Yeah but, Batman isnt a nice super duper hero. He WONT directly kill people, but he may accidently.

Even innocent cops doing theire jobs...

Personally I don't have a problem with batman killing people, especially when the circumstance warrants it. But I really think the problem is that if Batman kills people he should ahve killed Joker a long time ago, and then we wouldn't have such an awesome villain.

 

[YoNoSe]

I like the no killing rule...I think it's definitive for the comics. The movies have acknowledged it in their way but obviously when you're crashing along highways and blowing up stuff with your batmobile there's a very good chance of someone getting a face full of bat-debris.
Batman jumps off a building to save Mugly Darko but leaves the Joker to slit throats at his leisure. Does that make him responsible for them, too?
I think it's more about what he directly intends to do.

 

[MaulFan]

I think the concept is his killing rule applies to intent. He will not seek out to kill someone or directly let his feelings kill them, but incidental death in some cases will be unavoidable but any time he can steer around it, no one will die by his hand. Joker lives because even though his best option was to flip him off his body, he roped him instead of letting him fall. Two-Face died because he had to be instantly immobilized and that was the intent, it just happend that they fell out a window or whatever and couldn't hold on, but Batman wasn't expecting to kill him it just happened. To me that's what the rule is about, that he never kill someone with intent.

 

[Agent0028]

To me that's what the rule is about, that he never kill someone with intent.

I agree with that.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Even innocent cops doing theire jobs...

Like which?

 

[YoNoSe]

Like which?

I'm not 100% on this but I think a few police cruisers went flying during the BB car chase.

 

[Agent0028]

Adn the SWAT team members that got tossed out the window on a rope.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

I'm not 100% on this but I think a few police cruisers went flying during the BB car chase.

Ah....just have to believe they didn't die. If the deaths weren't shown there is no way to prove they did. Rule intact.

Adn the SWAT team members that got tossed out the window on a rope.

They also did not die, suspended by the rope as you said.

 

[Khev]

I like how Batman and his "rules" are portrayed in the Nolanverse. I think the severe collateral damage and sometimes excessively aggressive behavior keep it closer to that line of realism that Nolan is going for.

Even the most highly trained operatives can't always choose the most "gentle" approach in a crisis situation when you've got two seconds to perform an act that will mean life or death for one or more people.

 

[MaulFan]

That's also what makes him the vigillante in his deeds, even if his motives are heroic. The fact he'll blow up 3-4 parked cars to clear a path for himself and things like that shows that his ultimate motive is the best possible outcome to the situation. Rachel's poisened, take out cars and destroy buildings to get her to a cure, Harvey's in danger, blow up and damage buildings and other properties to get to him in time to save him. Batman is not above doing what it takes to accomplish his goal, except killing.

 

[Agent0028]

Ah....just have to believe they didn't die. If the deaths weren't shown there is no way to prove they did. Rule intact.



They also did not die, suspended by the rope as you said.

My point is that it was a big risk,those cops very easily could have died. His rule is intact, but I would say more by luck than by actually following the rule.

 

[Ven]

I don't think batman killed harvey because he was indirectly invovled... because his main objective was to save the boy..

another example is the JOKER killings.. he was indirectly invovled and not intentional but it happened anyway because the mob wanted their money back.

 

[Ktjn]

That's also what makes him the vigillante in his deeds, even if his motives are heroic. The fact he'll blow up 3-4 parked cars to clear a path for himself and things like that shows that his ultimate motive is the best possible outcome to the situation. Rachel's poisened, take out cars and destroy buildings to get her to a cure, Harvey's in danger, blow up and damage buildings and other properties to get to him in time to save him. Batman is not above doing what it takes to accomplish his goal, except killing.

What if children were in those cars? Heh, there were only two several feet away.

In BB, I remember during the chase scene, I was a bit confused, it seemed unlike batman (-ish) for him to be dropping mines/bombs on the street to stop the cops from chasing him. They could have been killed. Same applies when in DK, he smashes head on with the trash truck and probably killed the driver.

I wouldn't completely discount anything from part 3 yet, regardless of what anyone says. It's a long way off and all of the people involved are being pressured for answers due to the huge public interest. I wouldn't be surprised to see direct contradictions to anything Nolan, Goyer, or anyone else says at this early stage.

Yeah, Eckhart once said it was acid that originates the "Two-Face" scarring in DK, but we find out it's fire. So take it with a grain of salt. Cat-Woman/Two-Face as the villians in "3", could work nicely.

Speaking of TF. When Harvey had his coin, was it already scratced up before he turned into TwoFace?

 

[CelticPredator]

Too bad?

Batman doesnt kill people on purpose. If he does it accidently...well, tough ^^^^. Batman isnt Superman. He doesnt go and stop the missile before saving the people he loves. He'll let the missile go, and have someone else deal with it.