POTC: AWE Discussion - WITH SPOILERS

[Buttmunch]

Yeah, the monkey was dead in AWE, he was shot out of the canon and you can see him burning while he's flying through the air.


The timeline for Davy Jones I think is that maybe 11-20 years ago is when his story happened, after ten years of ferrying the dead he came back to see Calypso and she wasn't there, that caused him to become angry and hateful and so he stopped doing what he was supposed to do and that's why he and his crew look that way. I don't know why he cut out his heart though.

I don't think so. Barbossa said a gathering of the size in AWE hasn't happend before in their lifetime. So the very first Bretheren Council had to take place long before Barbossa was born (who is probably between 50-60). The Jones/Calypso story would have to be very old. Afterall, even Will know's of Davy Jones Locker in the first film and I doubt something less than 10-20 years old becomes that legendary. Besides, at least 10 years had to pass for Jones to fulfil his first 10 years of duty.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

Yeah, the monkey was dead in AWE, he was shot out of the canon and you can see him burning while he's flying through the air.


The timeline for Davy Jones I think is that maybe 11-20 years ago is when his story happened, after ten years of ferrying the dead he came back to see Calypso and she wasn't there, that caused him to become angry and hateful and so he stopped doing what he was supposed to do and that's why he and his crew look that way. I don't know why he cut out his heart though.

According to POTC, Davy Jones is 210 years old. He was given the responsiblity of ferrying the dead when he was in his 40's or 50's.

For ten years he did his job, separated from Calypso though able to visit her for a single day every decade. Upon his return from the underworld, Jones found Calypso had forsaken him; in rage, Davy Jones carved his still-beating heart out of his body, and placed it, into the Dead Man's Chest. Instead of dying, Jones became immortal and all but invincible, with his only weakness laying within the chest, the key to which Jones hung around his neck. But in the meantime he had stopped ferrying the dead.

When Jones stopped guiding the dead, Calypso cursed Jones and his crew, and they became the monstrous combinations of man and beast that we all know and love. This caused Jones to sell out Calypso to the Brethren Court.

His betrayal of Calypso had to happen within the last 100 or so years since the Brethren Court, who bound Calypso to a single human form at Jones' instruction, trapped her at their first meeting. The court in AWE was the 4th ever to held and the first one to take place in either Jack's or Barbossa's lifetimes.

I hope this helps. I loved the third film and will probably see it 2 more times before the summer is over.

 

[darthviper107]

I don't think so. Barbossa said a gathering of the size in AWE hasn't happend before in their lifetime. So the very first Bretheren Council had to take place long before Barbossa was born (who is probably between 50-60). The Jones/Calypso story would have to be very old. Afterall, even Will know's of Davy Jones Locker in the first film and I doubt something less than 10-20 years old becomes that legendary. Besides, at least 10 years had to pass for Jones to fulfil his first 10 years of duty.

Oh, I guess I'm wrong then. But didn't they start the council? All the pirate lords had their pieces of eight that they had created to imprison Calypso so they must have met some time in their lifetime.

 

[Agent0028]

The pieces of eight were passed down. Remember when Barbossa was trying to get Sao Feng to help rescue Jack he said Jack died before he could pass on his piece of eight. Given the occupational hazards of being a pirate its rather surprising those pieces of eight survived for so long.

And thanks for the info Picco. Any idea why Will had to have his heart cut out? That part still boggles my mind.

 

[RoboDad]

[Davy Jones] betrayal of Calypso had to happen within the last 100 or so years since the Brethren Court, who bound Calypso to a single human form at Jones' instruction, trapped her at their first meeting. The court in AWE was the 4th ever to held and the first one to take place in either Jack's or Barbossa's lifetimes.

Everything you said agrees with what I understood, except this part. I do't see anything that implies that the betrayal had to occur within the last hundred years. All we know is that it occurred before any of the current brethren court were alive, since the "nine pieces of whatever we had in our pockets at the time" were passed down from previous members of the court to the current members. It could have been the previous members who bound Calypso, or it could have happened several generations back.

 

[scubasteve]

Also, I noticed Beckett had 7 (not all 9) actual pieces of eight on his desk. Did he think those were the real pieces of eight? Had he spoken to/manipulated 7 pirate lords before he talked to Jack?

 

[oxbeard]

Everything you said agrees with what I understood, except this part. I do't see anything that implies that the betrayal had to occur within the last hundred years. All we know is that it occurred before any of the current brethren court were alive, since the "nine pieces of whatever we had in our pockets at the time" were passed down from previous members of the court to the current members. It could have been the previous members who bound Calypso, or it could have happened several generations back.

Barbosa did say that it was the very council that bound Calypso. I got the impression that was the prime reason for convening the council.

And with the apparent reality that the curse would be broken if the captain's love remained faithful for that 10 year period until he could return to land. I would think Calypso had to have betrayed Jones during his first return.

I didn't remember Jones' age being given, but if he is 210 and say was cursed at age 50. Add in the first 10 years of the curse, and that would put Calypso's entrapment occuring approximately 150 years ago.

 

[oxbeard]

Also, I noticed Beckett had 7 (not all 9) actual pieces of eight on his desk. Did he think those were the real pieces of eight? Had he spoken to/manipulated 7 pirate lords before he talked to Jack?

Actually I believe those were indeed "pieces of eight". That is actually the name given to the Spanish dollar. Beckett obviously had found out something of the legend surrounding the 9 pieces of 8 because at the opening when he was informed the pirates had begun singing, he said "finally" as if this was what he was trying to accomplish all along.

Of course, we find that the original council had to use whatever they had in order to perform the ceremony to imprison Calypso, but they still called the trinkets "pieces of eight" which obviously had thrown Beckett and likely several others off the trail of what he was really looking for.

 

[scubasteve]

Actually I believe those were indeed "pieces of eight". That is actually the name given to the Spanish dollar. Beckett obviously had found out something of the legend surrounding the 9 pieces of 8 because at the opening when he was informed the pirates had begun singing, he said "finally" as if this was what he was trying to accomplish all along.

Of course, we find that the original council had to use whatever they had in order to perform the ceremony to imprison Calypso, but they still called the trinkets "pieces of eight" which obviously had thrown Beckett and likely several others off the trail of what he was really looking for.

Yes, that's what I meant.

"Also, I noticed Beckett had 7 (not all 9) actual pieces of eight on his desk. Did he think those were the real pieces of eight? Had he spoken to/manipulated 7 pirate lords before he talked to Jack?"

But, why would the camera even pan over to show 7 lying on Beckett's desk? Any significance behind this?

 

[oxbeard]

Yes, that's what I meant.

"Also, I noticed Beckett had 7 (not all 9) actual pieces of eight on his desk. Did he think those were the real pieces of eight? Had he spoken to/manipulated 7 pirate lords before he talked to Jack?"

But, why would the camera even pan over to show 7 lying on Beckett's desk? Any significance behind this?

Not sure whether I was imagining it or not, but seems like when Barbosa and crew went to Feng's hideout and reluctantly was going to tell him why he needed to bring Jack back. He tossed him an actual piece of eight and it seemed there was music coming from the coin as it played (hence not sure whether I imagined that or not ) But I figured it must have been activated by the singing of the song in order to let all of the Pirate Lords know a council had been called. I would expect there is obviously some details surrounding this that have yet to come out.

And on a side note, I would be very curious to know the circumstances surrounding the calling of the 2nd and 3rd councils.

 

[Agent0028]

If you imagined it I did too. I'm not sure what the significance of the pieces of eight on Beckett's desk were. During the movie I thought maybe they signified he had captured seven of the nine pieces (or the pirate lords themselves).

 

[The Mike]

I loved the movie, I thought it was the best out of all three and perfectly tied the storylines with an end.

Davy Jones cut out his heart so he wouldn't feel the pain that Tia Dalma/Calypso filled him with. He placed the Heart on the chest and buried it. It was said that you couldn't kill Jones unless you pierced the heart, my assumption is that without his heart, Jones was immortal which allowed him to travel freely from the Land of the Dead to the Land of the Living......Will's heart had to be cut to give him the same powers and functionality.

I think its funny that people are assuming that Elizabeth waits around for Will for 10 years.....remember Will cannot step foot on land for 10 years but she could have seen him hundreds of times in the water, on a boat, etc. If you really want to get technical, Jones was standing in a bucket of water no reason that Will could not have done the same to witness his child's birth or whatever. I was assuming that the curse was not broken nor was it the first time in 10 years that Elizabeth had seen Will but that it was the first time that he could relax and be with this family on land.....hence the big deal.

 

[RoboDad]

Barbosa did say that it was the very council that bound Calypso. I got the impression that was the prime reason for convening the council.

I'm not sure what you mean. Barbossa said that there had never been a meeting of all nine pirate lords in his lifetime (or words to that effect), so it couldn't have been the very group that bound Calypso. It was also explained that the pieces of "eight" were passed down from one pirate to another over the years (which designated the recipient as a new lord, just as Sao Feng did with Elizabeth).

 

[The Mike]

I think Barbossa's comment of "This Very Council" was referring to the Council as a body and functional working order not referring to the people seated at the table.

 

[choopie]

Saw it again for the second time on Sunday and just loved it.

I was curious to know why Barbossa's green apples are absent in this film, especially since they were such a part of his character in the first one, and he even shows up with one at the end of the second. Is this just an oversight on the filmmaker's part, something he loses a taste for after he's brought back to life, or something else??

Also was thinking that there may be significance behind the peanuts in the film that have not yet been revealed -- the peanut is made reference to in both of Jack's hallucinatory scenes, on the Pearl and in the cell. Barbossa also feeds a peanut to Jack the monkey at the end of the film. Could just be reading too much into things, though....

 

[oxbeard]

I'm not sure what you mean. Barbossa said that there had never been a meeting of all nine pirate lords in his lifetime (or words to that effect), so it couldn't have been the very group that bound Calypso. It was also explained that the pieces of "eight" were passed down from one pirate to another over the years (which designated the recipient as a new lord, just as Sao Feng did with Elizabeth).

Sorry about that, I apparently forgot to type the word 'first'

I was referring to that fact that he stated that it was the very first council that imprisoned Calypso.

 

[Agent0028]

I think the peanut was just a running gag, but who knows should another movie materialize there may be more to it.

Davy Jones cut out his heart so he wouldn't feel the pain that Tia Dalma/Calypso filled him with. He placed the Heart on the chest and buried it. It was said that you couldn't kill Jones unless you pierced the heart, my assumption is that without his heart, Jones was immortal which allowed him to travel freely from the Land of the Dead to the Land of the Living......Will's heart had to be cut to give him the same powers and functionality.

The problem I'm having a hard time understanding is that it seems to me that either Jones cut out his heart because of the pain he felt or the heart must be cut out to captain the Flying Dutchman. Or am I just putting too much thought in to it?

 

[tomandshell]

The crazy eyeball popping out and rolling around was just a running gag until the end of film three, so you never know about the peanut.

 

[oxbeard]

From DMC:

TIA DALMA
Same story, different versions, and
all are true. See, it was a *woman*,
as changing, and harsh, and untamable
as the sea. Him never stopped loving
her. But the pain it cause 'im was too
much to live wid. But not enough to
cause him to die.

...............................................

It was not wort' feeling what... small
fleeting joy life brings, and so...
he carved out him heart, lock it away
in a chest, and hide de chest from de
world. De keys, he keep wid him at all
times.​

Now the part I'm having trouble with is that if indeed he cut out his heart because of the the betrayal and the betrayal didn't actually happen until after the first 10 years of service when he first returned to land, that means he was still captain of the Dutchman for 10 years ferrying souls while still having his heart. You would think then that Will could have kept his heart as well.

 

[Buttmunch]

You have to remember Tia Dalma is Calypso so she may be lying about the whole curse to conceal her identity.