POTC: AWE Discussion - WITH SPOILERS

[The Mike]

The crazy eyeball popping out and rolling around was just a running gag until the end of film three, so you never know about the peanut.

Depends on your perception. The Eyeball was Barbossa's "piece of eight". He also left Raghetti in charge of it which is why he freaked out more when he lost it, in AWE he even says "I kept it safe like you told me". Barbossa didn't keep the piece on him just in case of the worst and no one would suspect a wooden eye. The eye rolling around wasn't exactly useless or just a gag but a reminder in retrospect of how much importance was there and how he was trying to fufill his charge.

As for the heart, whether Jones cut it out to be on the Dutchman or due to his betrayal which all signs lead to, it was widely known that the heart was in a chest locked away for good, even though people thought it was a myth it was widely known even amongst his crew. Bootstrap Bill Turner had lost his mind and was chanting "The Dutchman must have a captain" and cut out Will's heart while he was still "dead". Its possible that he could have kept his heart but it wasn't really his choice at that point in time.

 

[Agent0028]

Bootstrap Bill Turner had lost his mind and was chanting "The Dutchman must have a captain" and cut out Will's heart while he was still "dead". Its possible that he could have kept his heart but it wasn't really his choice at that point in time.

Okay, that makes sense, I can buy that. Although it does raise another question...if Elizabeth is faithful and the curse is lifted in 10 years...he still has the little problem that he doesn't have his heart.

 

[oxbeard]

Just occured to me about the eye, do you figure Barbosa plucked his other eye out or he was chosen to be the keeper because he had already lost it.

 

[Buttmunch]

I want to know why the original pirate lord had a spare wooden eye in pocket.

 

[The Mike]

Just occured to me about the eye, do you figure Barbossa plucked his other eye out or he was chosen to be the keeper because he had already lost it.

I'm assuming because it was already gone. He places a patch over it and begins to widdle another eye, so I'm assuming that because he had already lost it, Barbossa places in his head and after having it in for so long Raghetti probably just wanted another in.

Okay, that makes sense, I can buy that. Although it does raise another question...if Elizabeth is faithful and the curse is lifted in 10 years...he still has the little problem that he doesn't have his heart

True, but also notice that Elizabeth wasn't carrying the chest, meaning that either A: the missing heart issue wasn't an issue at that point and the chest was obsolete or B: the curse wasn't lifted and so Elizabeth wouldn't have risked moving the heart from his hiding place after keeping it safe for 10 years....

 

[tomandshell]

Or C: she got hungry on that island and cooked it and ate it.



Has Dusty seen it yet? Did she like it?

 

[LOTRFan]

I think its funny that people are assuming that Elizabeth waits around for Will for 10 years.....remember Will cannot step foot on land for 10 years but she could have seen him hundreds of times in the water, on a boat, etc. If you really want to get technical, Jones was standing in a bucket of water no reason that Will could not have done the same to witness his child's birth or whatever. I was assuming that the curse was not broken nor was it the first time in 10 years that Elizabeth had seen Will but that it was the first time that he could relax and be with this family on land.....hence the big deal.

Well now THAT would make procreation interesting!

 

[tomandshell]

The one thing I was expecting out of this movie was a major, large scale battle between the pirate and British fleets. In the end, it was basically just the Black Pearl and Dutchman, with Beckett's ship featured in the very end. The two armadas were just sitting in the background and never did anything. Seems like the whole movie built up the importance of uniting all the pirates, but then they didn't actually get to fight--or do anything at all besides cheer at the end.

But the battle between the two ships around the whirlpool was pretty cool. I just would have liked to have gotten a sense of a larger scale battle going on around them, and that never materialized.

I also would have liked a more clear bit of closure to the Calypso storyline. I didn't get a sense that there was a strategic result of releasing her, apart from the rain. I expected some sort of intervention or something, like her wiping out the British ships at a strategic point (like Aragorn's Army of the Dead in Return of the King). She just left, it rained, and everything else happened as it would have without her being in the story at all.

So if those two subplots had paid off, I think it would have made the film a little stronger. Show the pirates engaging the British in battle, ultimately being overpowered, and then have Calypso save the day and swallow up the British ships. Then it would have been clear why Barbossa was correct in wanting her freed from her human form. As it stands, there was no payoff. Why spend the time building those parts of the story if they aren't going to factor into the climax in a meaningful way? Neither Calypso nor the pirate army really seemed to impact the resolution of the film.

And if Chow Yun Fat had only kicked some butt in at least one fight scene!!! We may never see him onscreen as a pirate again, and he didn't get to fight!!

 

[RoboDad]

Sorry about that, I apparently forgot to type the word 'first'

I was referring to that fact that he stated that it was the very first council that imprisoned Calypso.

Ah, makes perfect sense now. Funny how just one word can add so much clarity.

And to Tom:

I can understand how you could feel let down if that is what you were expecting. But the "truth" (from the story perspective) is that Beckett didn't want to use the British fleet. Once he gained control of the Dutchman, he believed that the fleet was only necessary for a show of strength. It wasn't until he was pinned between the Pearl and the Dutchman that he knew he had lost that control. By that time, there was nothing to fleet could have done to save him. And from the pirates' perspective, their war was with him, not the whole British military. They had only agreed to go to war because they believed that he would exterminate them anyway, and it would be better to go out fighting. Once he was eliminated, they had no more reason to want a full-scale battle (as this is not their typical style, and besides, they knew they would lose).

As far as Calypso is concerned, how I took it is that the pirates felt they needed her intervention to prevent the Dutchman from wiping them all out. She had no reason to punish the British, but she did have a score to settle with Jones.

 

[oxbeard]

I figured it was more than just the rain too. I believe the whole maelstrom was her responsibility as well and without that, the battle could have waged completely differently.

 

[MaulFan]

Don't forget guys, Calypso said when freed she was going to punish them all for imprisoning her in the first place, I believe the storm and maelstrom was her efforts to swallow the Pearl and the Dutchman to the depths of the sea.

 

[The Mike]

Right, I assumed that Calypso's work was the Maelstrom and it was less an attempt to get the pirates but more of an attempt to destroy Davy Jones and The Flying Dutchman for Jones' betrayal....When the Dutchman was taken it stopped, she had Jones already from his death thanks to the trio and took the Dutchman as well.....that debt was settled similar to Jack's settlement and so the Dutchman returned with its new Captain at the helm.

 

[MaulFan]

My only dissappointment with the film was a trademark line not delivered with a few chances to say it.

"You shall always remember this as the day you almost caught Captain Jack Sparrow."

It could have worked when he fled Beckett's ship, but more so I was hoping he'd say it when he swung up to the sails of the Dutchman right after Jones and his goons start closing in on him.

 

[oxbeard]

Don't forget guys, Calypso said when freed she was going to punish them all for imprisoning her in the first place, I believe the storm and maelstrom was her efforts to swallow the Pearl and the Dutchman to the depths of the sea.

True, but I got the impression when Will told her during the ceremony to release her that it was actually Jones who showed the Pirate Lords how to imprison her that she really didn't know that before. And it appeared at least to me that she may have felt betrayed and her focus for revenge changed.

Just my impression though.

 

[MaulFan]

It's very open to interpretation, but I'm glad for this thread, all of this discussion and ability to sink in the information which was a lot to keep up with in the theater, I now feel this movie rocked, loved it from beginning to end, deffinately will have to see it again.

 

[oxbeard]

I agree, I absolutely love reading everyone's perceptions of the the storyline and myths surrounding this.

 

[scubasteve]

I'm sorry guys, but I have one more question. Hope someone can clear this up -

What was the significance of the scene in which Beckett gave Norrington his sword back and the Governor was signing "execution orders"? I was confused by it all. Was I looking to deeply into it?

ALSO, even though he denied it, did Norrington know of the Governor's death?

 

[MaulFan]

I'm sorry guys, but I have one more question. Hope someone can clear this up -

What was the significance of the scene in which Beckett gave Norrington his sword back and the Governor was signing "execution orders"? I was confused by it all. Was I looking to deeply into it?

ALSO, even though he denied it, did Norrington know of the Governor's death?

I don't think Norrington had a clue, I believe he was on the Dutchmann when Beckett's wing man took Swan out in the boat. As for the significance of the scene with the sword, I think it was to add to the buildup of the nightmare that Beckett's rule had become, no mercy, everyone a slave unto his bidding, Swan further stripped of power and made into Beckett's ***** basically.

 

[The Mike]

Beckett plays with it in DMC and in AWE he says to Norrington that he should have an old friend referencing the presentation to him in COBP upon his promotion. He is an Admiral now, promoted just like he was in COBP. It was a throwback to the first film but then again it takes another turn in symbolism once the film continues.

Norrington didn't know about the Governor's Death, Beckett didn't discuss his loss of usefulness until after Norrington was dispatched. His remorse was because he realized that his vengeance and thrust for revenge cost him Elizabeth's respect even though delivering Jones's heart gave him back his status.

 

[Buttmunch]

It also played into the irony of Will being "killed" by the sword he made.