PREORDER NOW! [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

[SwedishHeat]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

This is only tangentially relevant, but I think you are overestimating production numbers in the hobby these days. I only know a few numbers for a fact, like BCS' Amy Pond at 900, Blitzway's Scarface at 2000 and ACI's Gladiator at 1000.

Personally, I can't see the no-name Play Toy un-licensed bootleg moving more units than BCS's licensed super-popular current media friendly figure that they were promoting all over Facebook which was distributed though major distributors like Diamond Comics.

I'd estimate the Play Toy figure at between 500-800 pieces. I don't think anything touches 2000 pieces these days unless it's licensed. With the way prices keep increasing across the board for everyone, simple economics means total quantity is going down. I think production numbers are much smaller than folks are estimating.

 

[Wake]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

This is only tangentially relevant, but I think you are overestimating production numbers in the hobby these days. I only know a few numbers for a fact, like BCS' Amy Pond at 900, Blitzway's Scarface at 2000 and ACI's Gladiator at 1000.

Personally, I can't see the no-name Play Toy un-licensed bootleg moving more units than BCS's licensed super-popular current media friendly figure that they were promoting all over Facebook which was distributed though major distributors like Diamond Comics.

I'd estimate the Play Toy figure at between 500-800 pieces. I don't think anything touches 2000 pieces these days unless it's licensed. With the way prices keep increasing across the board for everyone, simple economics means total quantity is going down. I think production numbers are much smaller than folks are estimating.

Im not an expert in mass production. But based on the knowledge Denny has imparted on me the cost of production on these figures only makes them viable in quantities of 2000 or so. ACI produces bodies, Play Toy does as well. Companies with bodies can make 10000 bodies and them spread that stock out amongst different projects A LA Bride killer from play toy. The fact remains that a mold costs what a mold costs and its much easier to spread out that cost when you are 'hiding' into the production of 500-600 figures (to use your conservative estimate) than 70-100. Wether that mold is for a base body or a metal sword.

Ive also come into knowledge regarding Enterbay's and Hot Toys figure run numbers that I previously did not even close to believe was what 'limited' meant. How is 30,000 limited?

 

[Levit05]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

i based my numbers on what i do know about the 1/6 industry...were they exact...of course not but the ball park figure and point i was trying to make was that the comparison that was taking place was in all honesty...like comparing apples and oranges...Denny or Iminime would have to cross many landmines to somehow get his numbers up to sell to really make a profit....and to do that....you have to go through a laundry list of hoops to jump through which would prolly start with attaining a license to a property that would be prosperous...which of course...are taken by the big boys....which is why he and others have to go by the smaller runs and secretive routes...I know that Denny hopes that we see his hardship and what he is trying to do for the hobby...which some of us do...he doesn't want to cross over to the RM level because that would lower the runs and bring up the prices....and he does not have the capability (yet) to go the mid to high level to take on higher costs to make a profit and keep the same level of detail...

its unfortunate that sometimes the good guys have such a hard time getting ahead...in ANY business...but that is the story of the world....

 

[SwedishHeat]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

Ive also come into knowledge regarding Enterbay's and Hot Toys figure run numbers that I previously did not even close to believe was what 'limited' meant. How is 30,000 limited?

I would need to know what that 30,000 number meant. If it was the total number of Michael Jordan bodies that Enterbay made, that's not terribly surprising, considering they're making 6 or 7 versions. I'm not that familiar with Jordan's worldwide popularity, but I can believe he's very, very popular.

My main thought process was that we're very far on from the days of Sideshow literally mass producing Universal Monsters and selling them in Toys R Us for $20. Sure, I can imagine a Hot Toys Batman is made in 10,000 pieces, Batman is a huge deal. Beatrix Kiddo, not so much. Sideshow probably made 20-30k of each of their Universal Monsters back in the day. I believe they made 15k of EACH of the Monty Python knights. Now, Sideshow has trouble moving 6k of Boba Fett. That's quite a gap.

I have trouble believing there are 30,000 Hot Toys Hulks out there, that's for sure.

 

[Levit05]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

those numbers may be from a few years ago when HT rev'd up their production to try and maximize their profits and at the same time battle the secondary market prices....since their Avengers line started...the numbers per charaacter are not the same as say...2-3 years ago when they upped their numbers...its why you saw plenty of stock all around....change that to recent releases and you are lucky if it doesn't sell out and get yourself one...

 

[SwedishHeat]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

I do remember hearing that the Chris Reeve Superman was way over-produced. I have a feeling that was because either DC or the Reeve Foundation wanted a minimum $ amount, and HT had to produce X number to make sure the royalty hit that amount.

Someone else here was saying that the DX Jack Sparrow had the biggest production run ever. . . I could go either way on that one. I think it was noisetrigger, who I believe runs a shop in his region.

In any case, I think HT is very much on the ball. I know everyone likes to give them crap, but I remember reading that Howard Chan was already a successful entreprenuer before he started Hot Toys, I think he was involved in the movie business. But in any case, I think he's a very shrewd businessman, and he knows what he's doing.

So, how about that iminime Bride figure, eh??

 

[Lawrence]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

 

[Yaugzebul76]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

Miss Turman look pretty good

 

[CodyH]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

Sculpts are pretty good.....so far they have some good figures coming out. Just sucks that they are all coming out for pre-order along with the rest. Not a chance to even save up for a few....

 

[PopCultKid]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

This hobby is way more niche than you may realize Wake. In my world, I'm the ONLY one that collects (and I get a lot of s_it for it). I think I may even be the only one within 2 degrees of separation. I'm not sure if I even know someone who knows someone who collects . Everyone I know in this hobby I met here. In the big scheme of things, like globally speaking, this is a very small universe. (BTW I'm speaking 1/6 here. I understand that NYCC draws a 200,000 head crowd in 3 days. I'm referring to how many people globally are into collecting $150+ figures)

I'll guarantee that NOTHING in 1/6 is produced in the ball park of 30000; I'm talking true types or anything. That's approaching numbers in the 7" Neca realm. The best way to judge and compare is to go off of the companies like SS & Neca that advertise their ES's. Neca is doing around 2000 each of their very reasonably priced 1/4 stuff (I understand that this is a different sect of the market/hobby) and SS, depending on the character, is doing 4000-8000 per fig on their Star Wars line. Taking that, and adding variables such as "how fast something sold out from SS" and "character popularity", I'd go out on a limb and say that HT produces less popular characters and less attractive priced characters (Jor-El, Odin, Fury, Hawkeye, Hulk, Iron Monger, etc.) in the 3000-6000 and the serious block busters like DX12 and Mark VII in the 9000-11000 range. Then there's times when they had to overproduce something like Reeve Supes or Jack Joker for whatever reason (over anticipated popularity or had to make more units to cover licensing costs) and it ends up sitting around for a long time.

When it comes to the little guys on the block, I think it's a fair gueestimate to say guys like Brothers Production does around 300-600 per fig.

 

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

Just sucks that they are all coming out for pre-order along with the rest. Not a chance to even save up for a few....

These coming out in pairs or even three's is going to be a big hit financially if I'm correct in assuming these are going to run in the realm of 5 bills per fig.

And if there are any delays we'll be approaching the holiday season where money is always tighter...

 

[Wake]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

This hobby is way more niche than you may realize Wake. In my world, I'm the ONLY one that collects (and I get a lot of s_it for it). I think I may even be the only one within 2 degrees of separation. I'm not sure if I even know someone who knows someone who collects . Everyone I know in this hobby I met here. In the big scheme of things, like globally speaking, this is a very small universe. (BTW I'm speaking 1/6 here. I understand that NYCC draws a 200,000 head crowd in 3 days. I'm referring to how many people globally are into collecting $150+ figures)

I'll guarantee that NOTHING in 1/6 is produced in the ball park of 30000; I'm talking true types or anything. That's approaching numbers in the 7" Neca realm. The best way to judge and compare is to go off of the companies like SS & Neca that advertise their ES's. Neca is doing around 2000 each of their very reasonably priced 1/4 stuff (I understand that this is a different sect of the market/hobby) and SS, depending on the character, is doing 4000-8000 per fig on their Star Wars line. Taking that, and adding variables such as "how fast something sold out from SS" and "character popularity", I'd go out on a limb and say that HT produces less popular characters and less attractive priced characters (Jor-El, Odin, Fury, Hawkeye, Hulk, Iron Monger, etc.) in the 3000-6000 and the serious block busters like DX12 and Mark VII in the 9000-11000 range. Then there's times when they had to overproduce something like Reeve Supes or Jack Joker for whatever reason (over anticipated popularity or had to make more units to cover licensing costs) and it ends up sitting around for a long time.

When it comes to the little guys on the block, I think it's a fair gueestimate to say guys like Brothers Production does around 300-600 per fig.

Then you would be wrong. I have inside information FROM Denny that indicates that you have grossly underestimated the runs. Remember that this planets population is just over 7 billion people. The US... 331 million. Thats not even 5% of the world. The majority of 1/6 collectors are in Asia. Which happens to be THE location of almost ALL of the major manufacturers in this business. A statement like "In my world, I'm the ONLY one that collects" is irrelevant and smacks of egocentricism. You know what .0001 % of 7 billion is? 70,000. That's 1 out of every 10,000 people. I'd say thats pretty fracking niche, wouldnt you?

Im Almost POSITIVE in Hong Kong ALONE, a city of just about 7.5 million people, that .001 % of the population, 1 in every 1,000 people collects toys. That alone would be 7.500 figures in one city. What about Tokyo, Shanghai, etc? BTW, you would have to be pretty famous to know 1,000 people IRL intimately enough to know whether they engage in a hobby that quite frankly people tend to keep a secret--at least unintentionally--well enought to determine that they are the 1 person out of 1,000 that you knew that collects. . Im not talking facebook friends either.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

Pop's estimates have been mine roughly, but based only on conjecture and the rare instance of HT explicitly announcing edition size. 30K seems like a hell of a lot, particularly when Sideshow releases figures at a fraction of that edition size that can take forever to sell out (from incredibly popular franchises globally like Star Wars), and when HT took the longest time to sell out of the 4,000 run "10th Anniversary" exclusives a few years back. Then, we've seen con exclusives that are supposedly released in < 3,000 numbers range, if the numbers they release are to be believed (350 or 500 or each spread out over a handful of cons), and some of those warm the figurative shelves. If 30,000 was an actual run size, it doesn't seem like it could be for anything except the very most popular of HT figures like the DXs or Iron Men. But I don't have any insider knowledge, so I don't really know. Scale of collectibility is a big X factor considering few of us here can really have a firm grasp over what is going on in Asia. I do know that median family incomes in many Asian countries is a fraction of what we see in the "West," (around $20K in Hong Kong), so considering that, I think the high end collecting habits won't even be an option for the vast majority. And of those that do have that option, how many might actively decide to collect these things?

But I'm sure HT has an incentive in keeping the truth away from us, to maintain the illusion of "limited" collectibles when they aren't really limited.

 

[PopCultKid]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

Then you would be wrong. I have inside information FROM Denny that indicates that you have grossly underestimated the runs. Remember that this planets population is just over 7 billion people. The US... 331 million. Thats not even 5% of the world. The majority of 1/6 collectors are in Asia. Which happens to be THE location of almost ALL of the major manufacturers in this business. A statement like "In my world, I'm the ONLY one that collects" is irrelevant and smacks of egocentricism. You know what .0001 % of 7 billion is? 70,000. That's 1 out of every 10,000 people. I'd say thats pretty fracking niche, wouldnt you?

Im Almost POSITIVE in Hong Kong ALONE, a city of just about 7.5 million people, that .001 % of the population, 1 in every 1,000 people collects toys. That alone would be 7.500 figures in one city. What about Tokyo, Shanghai, etc? BTW, you would have to be pretty famous to know 1,000 people IRL intimately enough to know whether they engage in a hobby that quite frankly people tend to keep a secret--at least unintentionally--well enought to determine that they are the 1 person out of 1,000 that you knew that collects. . Im not talking facebook friends either.

I think that you'd have to skew your demographics a bit. Like let's take all the third world countries out of the world wide equation for starters . Although the numbers are referred to as "world wide" the world’s population isn't part of the target market whatsoever. The world wide ES is spread over the target market who is in such & such economic bracket, has such & such interests, is predominately male, so on and so forth.

I'm just saying that SS ES's are a good indicator of the overall hobby and I have little tid bits of info from shop owners who are in tight with SS too.

I'm not being egocentric and this isn't an argument by the way. Just talking shop for s_its & giggles

 

[Wake]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

Pop's estimates have been mine roughly, but based only on conjecture and the rare instance of HT explicitly announcing edition size. 30K seems like a hell of a lot, particularly when Sideshow releases figures at a fraction of that edition size that can take forever to sell out (from incredibly popular franchises globally like Star Wars), and when HT took the longest time to sell out of the 4,000 run "10th Anniversary" exclusives a few years back. Then, we've seen con exclusives that are supposedly released in < 3,000 numbers range, if the numbers they release are to be believed (350 or 500 or each spread out over a handful of cons), and some of those warm the figurative shelves. If 30,000 was an actual run size, it doesn't seem like it could be for anything except the very most popular of HT figures like the DXs or Iron Men. But I don't have any insider knowledge, so I don't really know. Scale of collectibility is a big X factor considering few of us here can really have a firm grasp over what is going on in Asia. I do know that median family incomes in many Asian countries is a fraction of what we see in the "West," (around $20K in Hong Kong), so considering that, I think the high end collecting habits won't even be an option for the vast majority. And of those that do have that option, how many might actively decide to collect these things?

But I'm sure HT has an incentive in keeping the truth away from us, to maintain the illusion of "limited" collectibles when they aren't really limited.

Which is why I TOO was surprised to hear the numbers. In some cases i've heard that certain IM figures ran into the 50,000s in edition size. HT keeps making IM figures, almost with reckless abandon... THere's a reason for that. I have a feeling the Joker was a similar situation.

In the end we won't know really i suppose because like you mention Sam, it behooves HT to keep this information a secret at least enough to give the impression that their product is limited... but it appears its limited more by sales than by the manufacturer.

In any event, Ive heard Howard Chan recently bought a house in Hong Kong for 12 million dollars. That's nice.

 

[Wake]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

I think that you'd have to skew your demographics a bit. Like let's take all the third world countries out of the world wide equation for starters . Although the numbers are referred to as "world wide" the world’s population isn't part of the target market whatsoever. The world wide ES is spread over the target market who is in such & such economic bracket, has such & such interests, is predominately male, so on and so forth.

I'm just saying that SS ES's are a good indicator of the overall hobby and I have little tid bits of info from shop owners who are in tight with SS too.

I'm not being egocentric and this isn't an argument by the way. Just talking shop for s_its & giggles

It's all good man! LOL Im just argumentative by nature! LOL. Its proven to be something difficult for me to change as I move from collector to having skin in the game...

 

[PopCultKid]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

It's all good man! LOL Im just argumentative by nature! LOL. Its proven to be something difficult for me to change as I move from collector to having skin in the game...

Don't worry you doing a good job and handeling it well IMO


Like you and Sam said, it's all speculation. HT won't even tell SS what the total runs are. I know that HT has their retail store but SS is the main distributor for North America. They wholesale to all local shops and retail worldwide. I know for a fact that the local shops like Midtown Comics and Forbidden Planet in Manhattan only get 10-30 pieces of each fig (their discretion depending on the popularity) as a wholesale account of Sideshow's. When they get allocated they get even less! Forbidden Planet is THE collectible/comic shop in the city and even though they ordered more, the only ended up with 18 Mark VII's! BBTS is SS's biggest wholesale account and they only get 70-300 pieces, again depending on the fig. All this kind of stuff makes me believe that 50000 is an absolute impossibility

 

[karamazov80]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

Don't worry you doing a good job and handeling it well IMO

I agree here.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

In any event, Ive heard Howard Chan recently bought a house in Hong Kong for 12 million dollars. That's nice.

No wonder why Denny is so motivated to really get Iminime off the ground

 

[Lawrence]

Re: [iminime] The Deadly Vipers - The Angry Bride, The Yakuza Queen

If I remember correctly, I think there was talk about a wigged version. Is that still happening?