Presidential Debate Tonight - Obama vs. McCain.... DING, DING, DING

[tranquill]

It's interesting how the Israelis view Obama. He receives much support
both from Jewish liberals and arguably the right-wing AIPAC, but his
middle name bothers Israelis a lot. Also, there are doubts whether he is
really a Muslim apostate. Here is an article which analyzes Obama's
similarity to early Zionists:
https://samsonblinded.org/blog/obama-against-jewishness.htm What do you think of the parallels?

 

[FQRizzo]

As I've said - let's refrain from calling people feeble minded. And there seems to be a lot of anger in some posts - we need to get away from that as well - anger leads to hate , and hate leads to the dark side.:emperor

Politcal threads lead to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering...yada yada Dark side.

C'mon Dave, please get rid of these threads!

 

[woodsy]

I love how some Conservatives refer to the media as all being Left wing and Liberal... When in fact there are media outlets that are on both ends of the spectrum. To believe that ALL media is Left wing... well... it's proof of feeble mindedness.

As for Palin being ill prepared for high office, and horribly inept at interviews... well... the proof is in the tape. That was the most sad thing I have ever seen from ANY politician. If it were my candidate, I would be saying the same thing...

Maybe you should learn how to read. I didn't say all media was left wing, I said the mainstream media is. ABC, NBC, CBS or worse, MSNBC and CNN....they're all the same. Had the supposed incident with Palin occurred with Biden or Obamessiah you would have never heard about it because it wouldn't have been written. And here's a newsflash for you that you obviously aren't aware of.....it's not the job of journalists to create the news, it's their job to report it accuractely.

 

[CelticPredator]

FOX is rightwing.........

 

[barbelith]

I didn't say all media was left wing, I said the mainstream media is. ABC, NBC, CBS or worse, MSNBC and CNN....they're all the same.

I'm amused by the "liberal media" spin when it's obvious the vast majority of media outlets are broadly conservative.

 

[barbelith]

That's a good one! Well it must be true if Michael Rovito says it is..... Please feel free to supply the audio/video of that conversation...oh it doesn't exist...yeah that's what I thought.

https://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/28/palincheesesteak.cnn

 

[DarkArtist81]

Maybe you should learn how to read. I didn't say all media was left wing, I said the mainstream media is. ABC, NBC, CBS or worse, MSNBC and CNN....they're all the same. Had the supposed incident with Palin occurred with Biden or Obamessiah you would have never heard about it because it wouldn't have been written. And here's a newsflash for you that you obviously aren't aware of.....it's not the job of journalists to create the news, it's their job to report it accuractely.

That's what I meant... Not all mainstream media is Left wing... that is a broad generalization that makes no sense at all.... Honestly, it's pretty split down the middle. Really it depends on your views in the end, some see more conservative bias, some see liberal bias.

That's like saying that everyone in the South is a Right Wing Conservative, which also is not true at all.

 

[woodsy]

I'm amused by the "liberal media" spin when it's obvious the vast majority of media outlets are broadly conservative.

I really don't know how to respond to a comment like that????? Other than to say whatever you're on...I'll take two

It's time to end the climate of anti-intellectualism

You did make this statement, right......perhaps it's time to take your own advice

 

[woodsy]

https://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/28/palincheesesteak.cnn

Oops, my mistake I could of course behave like a liberal and blame someone else for my screw-up, but instead I'll stand up to the plate and take responsibility for my actions.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Oops, my mistake I could of course behave like a liberal and blame someone else for my screw-up, but instead I'll stand up to the plate and take responsibility for my actions.

See, comments like that are not necessary. I'm a liberal... and I will be the first to take responsibility for my own mistakes. People cannot be placed in a box like that.

That's the kind of statement that will end up locking this thread.

 

[Naptownsithlord]

It seems this thread is destin to be locked.
Well i thought the debate was slighlty in favor of Mccain.
I did notice that Obama did get a little more rattled than Mccain.
Obama seemed to have the same response quite often "Senator Mccain is right" i heard this at least a half dozen times.I can't wait for the VP thread to start.

 

[barbelith]

I really don't know how to respond to a comment like that?

Inverting a statement is a good way to show how off base it is. The truth is the mainstream media is largely centrist and has an unpleasant habit of kowtowing to authority in either party while lobbing softballs to candidates of all stripes. Commenting on the "liberal media" betrays the speaker as a radical right partisan.

 

[barbelith]

Obama seemed to have the same response quite often "Senator Mccain is right" i heard this at least a half dozen times.

This is a particular rhetorical style Obama frequently employs, which is to recognize common ground before moving on to emphasize the differences. Obama and McCain are more alike than not (neither is running for chief of an Amazon tribe for example). Obama has the courtesy of recognizing this where appropriate while McCain is just plain disrespectful. It's a strategy that works better in academia, where reason and ideas carry weight and shouting mindless slogans carries no currency.

 

[Naptownsithlord]

This is a particular rhetorical style Obama frequently employs, which is to recognize common ground before moving on to emphasize the differences. Obama and McCain are more alike than not (neither is running for chief of an Amazon tribe for example). Obama has the courtesy of recognizing this where appropriate while McCain is just plain disrespectful. It's a strategy that works better in academia, where reason and ideas carry weight and shouting mindless slogans carries no currency.

Well if they are more alike than not then Obama must be part of the "more of the same campaign".

 

[barbelith]

Well if they are more alike than not then Obama must be part of the "more of the same campaign".

They are alike in the sense that both men live in the same Western capitalist republic. This is going to instill some very basic shared values and will lead to them broadly agreeing on many things (for example neither is going to eliminate taxes and neither is going to dismantle the military and neither is going to order 300 million people to do nothing but bake pies on Wednesdays).

Where they differ is in the way they prioritize the challenges facing the nation and how they would try to resolve those challenges. I would imagine on virtually every single issue Obama and McCain can both say "I agree with my opponent on X but here's where we differ" or "My opponent is right about Y but here's where he starts to get it wrong."

The people who can't do this are maniacs unfit for public service.

It's easy for partisans to rely on soundbites but if you go back and listen again, you'll see Obama continually delineates the differences between the two men even when agreeing with McCain on certain challenges, facts or principles. Add up those shades of difference and you get two distinct and incompatible approaches to running this country (one of the reasons the "women will blindly switch from Clinton to Palin" argument never made sense to rational people).

I agree this intellectual approach does not work in a culture that prides itself on a relentless drive toward mediocrity and partisan hatred.

"More of the same" stems from McCain's history of voting with Bush more than 90% of the time. The idea that he can credibly campaign on "change" is laughable. Maybe someone should ask him which of that 90% he now regrets and would like to change...

 

[ProgMatinee]

"More of the same" stems from McCain's history of voting with Bush more than 90% of the time. The idea that he can credibly campaign on "change" is laughable. Maybe someone should ask him which of that 90% he now regrets and would like to change...

Obama certainly has the advantage of being in the party opposite the current presidential party that failed pretty poorly on a lot of issues. However, I think McCain is more different from Bush and the rest of the Republicans than Obama is from Clinton or the rest of the Democrats.

So, IMO, it comes down to McCain being a victim of his own party moreso than McCain being a Bush2.

The "more of the same" could have been said for any GOP candidate and the "CHANGE" platform could have been used for any DEM candidate.

What I want to know before voting is where does Obama DIFFER from the other democrats, because for me a lot of the typical democrat selling points turn me off.

I know a lot of people won't hear this, but I think McCain is moving to the center more than Obama is. McCain is trying to make inroads by actually saying who he is. Obama is trying to make inroads with the middle by pointing out who he's not. IE "not a Republican". For me thats not enough, because a democrat's ^^^^ stinks just as much as a republican's.

 

[Bodie The Cursed]

Palin is an absolute idiot. Thats what is hurting McCain. What a moronic selection.

 

[creature4000]

I know a lot of people won't hear this, but I think McCain is moving to the center more than Obama is. McCain is trying to make inroads by actually saying who he is. Obama is trying to make inroads with the middle by pointing out who he's not. IE "not a Republican". For me thats not enough, because a democrat's ^^^^ stinks just as much as a republican's.

This is True!!

 

[woodsy]

See, comments like that are not necessary. I'm a liberal... and I will be the first to take responsibility for my own mistakes. People cannot be placed in a box like that.

That's the kind of statement that will end up locking this thread.

I apologize. I'm just so used to watching a democrat-run congress [with a whooping 9% approval rating!] never take one ounce of responsibility their own screw-ups. It also doesn't help that some of the "elistist" board members here follow their example.

 

[barbelith]

However, I think McCain is more different from Bush and the rest of the Republicans than Obama is from Clinton or the rest of the Democrats.

I agree he used to be. But his record shows that McCain is no more. Either he thinks he did the wrong thing voting with Bush most of the time or he's just paying lip service to change. I think we're looking at the latter; McCain appears to have sold out in a final bid for the presidency.

Obama has no need to be different from Clinton as Clinton is wildly popular and his two terms are now viewed by centrists as something of a modern golden age. We can argue about whether this is deserved until the cows come home but in realpolitik terms Obama benefits from comparison to Clinton while McCain suffers from comparison to Bush.

What I want to know before voting is where does Obama DIFFER from the other democrats, because for me a lot of the typical democrat selling points turn me off.

Have you read his platform for yourself?

I know a lot of people won't hear this, but I think McCain is moving to the center more than Obama is.

This is one of those things we can say is categorically untrue. Obama has continually maintained a healthy lead when the electorate is polled by issue rather than by candidate or party. The nation is moving left again after being run into the ground by the conservatives. It's always a back and forth. In four or eight or twelve years the mood will swing back right. Twas ever thus.