Presidential Debate Tonight - Obama vs. McCain.... DING, DING, DING

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Example? The fears of liberals that Republicans want to take all your freedoms away and force you to go to church is ridiculous. If anything, its the liberal movement that is forcing "acceptance" and "political correctness" into everyone's lives.

I never said they want me to go to church (although they do) what i'm talking about is how they poo poo the very laws that are there to protect us. We did we lose with this administration......Due Process... Habeas Corpus... Magna Carta...? So the idea that women could lose the right to chose is not far fetched.
 
Can you name a single Democrat who advocates killing babies as distinct from abortion, or are you so blindly partisan that all ability to have a rational discussion has left the building?

This is borderline insulting a fellow board member. Lets remember to keep the gloves "ON". :duff

I do think the media has a leftist swing to it. But it also took no shame filling the air waves with pro-war/Bush propaganda in the early days of the Iraq war. :confused:
 
What does "killing babies as distinct from abortion" mean?

It means that abortion is not baby killing and that you might want to reconsider characterizing your opinions as reality.

Do you really belief people should be allowed to destroy human life by whim?

Of course not. But a fetus is not a baby, which is why there's a separate word for it. I don't know where the dividing line is, which is why I think families should have the freedom to make such a difficult decision for themselves.

And I'm not interested in extreme cases like rape and incest. I already concede it in those cases.

But that concession undermines your entire argument, because those cute little innocent babies were not responsible for the behavior of their parents. What does it say about your morality if you believe a fetus is a baby yet support killing it because of something someone else did?
 
In your first link it says on SUNDAY news is more conservative. 1 day conservative, 6 days liberal.
And if the media were so conservative, why is Rezco, Ayers and co. ignored? Why was the John Edwards scandal ignored and had to be broken by the National Inquirer?
Why are the major stories of Palin seeking to find people who complain about her when her own state gives her an 80% approval rating?
Come on, Chris Matthews gets a thrill running up his leg when Obama speaks.
 
I didn't mean you specifically saying that. I have read on this forum the fear regarding church and I just meant it as an example. Its just a ridiculous and not to mention impracticle notion. How exactly could they enforce something like that? We can't even catch drug dealers. LOL.
 
This is borderline insulting a fellow board member.

I disagree. I concede it may be impolite to point out when one has extremist beliefs that make rational discussion on a given topic impossible. But there is nowhere to proceed from "abortion = killing babies" and it remains a fringe belief in that black-and-white form.

I do think the media has a leftist swing to it. But it also took no shame filling the air waves with pro-war/Bush propaganda in the early days of the Iraq war.

Surely that's a pretty good sign the "liberal media" accusation is hot air?
 
..And if the media were so conservative, why is Rezco, Ayers and co. ignored? Why was the John Edwards scandal ignored and had to be broken by the National Inquirer?

Because Americans expect democrats (ie swinging loose hippie politicians) to have low morals. The real story we want to read is when the God fearing champions of Family Values actually are just like everyone else. :lol
 
Please don't try to tell me what I think, "apparently" or otherwise. You are quite mistaken.

Sorry not trying to tell you what to think but every time i hear this elitist thing thrown around it's from a Republican. I do not mean to lump all Republicans together and i am sorry for that.:peace
 
In your first link it says on SUNDAY news is more conservative. 1 day conservative, 6 days liberal.

Your second sentence does not follow from your first.

And if the media were so conservative, why is Rezco, Ayers and co. ignored? Why was the John Edwards scandal ignored and had to be broken by the National Inquirer?

The former are simply not stories. Sorry. They're wonderful talking points for conservative talk radio but there's nothing there for real journalists to talk about. The media loves a scandal. It was all over Edwards once the story broke.

Why are the major stories of Palin seeking to find people who complain about her when her own state gives her an 80% approval rating?

I believe she currently has a 68% approval rating in Alaska.
 
Sorry not trying to tell you what to think but every time i hear this elitist thing thrown around it's from a Republican. I do not mean to lump all Republicans together and i am sorry for that.:peace

No worries. Maybe I can sum up my thoughts this way. There is nothing wrong with being smart. But knowledge without wisdom is at best (mostly) useless, and at worst very dangerous.

Being smart is knowing how to swing a hammer. Being wise is understanding the difference between the nail and your thumb.

Obama may be (in some areas) very knowledgeable, but my opinion of him is that he lacks any demonstrable wisdom, and that he suffers from extreme self-aggrandizement. Those are a dangerous combination.
 
I think, perhaps, we have different definitions of elitism. Obama will never come out and call himself an elitist. That would make no sense, since elitism is a negative quality, not a positive one. And I'm not sure what "hate machine" you are referring to, either. My assessment comes from my own observation of Obama, during his speeches, especially during his convention speech. NO one has told me what to think.


I think you may have misinterpreted my comments. Would I go to a specialist if my doctor (whom I trust) referred me to someone he considered to be the best in his field, of course I would go. But if, when consulting with that doctor, he told me that HE thinks he is the best there is, I wouldn't trust him. That attitude leads to carelessness, even recklessness, and I wouldn't trust my health to him.


It isn't about being the best candidate for the job. That implies confidence, and the belief that one has the qualifications to do the job well. But Obama, in my opinion, has gone much, much further than that. My perception of him is that he views himself as near royalty, rather than a job applicant for a position as a public servant.

As for McCain, well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. He is far from perfect (he is, after all, a politician), but I don't get any sense from him that he thinks he is the greatest politician ever to grace the ballot.


Make no mistake. My disdain for Obama's megalomania isn't distracting me from the issues. I have listened to him describe what he wants to do, and on almost every single point I disagree with him, sometimes mildly, sometimes strongly.

I don't know where this whole "meglomania" thing has come from, you talk about confidence - well that's what i see when Obama talks. I don't think he ever sells himself as the greatest politician to grace the ballot - again that's the media.

Maybe i did misunderstand your comments about doctors and elitism but my original point still holds true that Obama himself has never said "i'm the best ever" that's everyone else saying that it seems he thinks like that. Again it's all perception and our perception is what we see through the media (biased or unbiased i'm not getting into that argument.)
 
I just had to tweak with this:


Bush may be (in some areas) very knowledgeable, but my opinion of him is that he lacks any demonstrable wisdom, and that he suffers from extreme self-aggrandizement. Those are a dangerous combination.

:monkey3:lol:lol:naughty:lol:lol:monkey3
 
No worries. Maybe I can sum up my thoughts this way. There is nothing wrong with being smart. But knowledge without wisdom is at best (mostly) useless, and at worst very dangerous.

Being smart is knowing how to swing a hammer. Being wise is understanding the difference between the nail and your thumb.

Obama may be (in some areas) very knowledgeable, but my opinion of him is that he lacks any demonstrable wisdom, and that he suffers from extreme self-aggrandizement. Those are a dangerous combination.

True, very true but i just don't see how McCain has the wisdom that Obama doesn't and being a POW doesn't make one wise.
 
It means that abortion is not baby killing and that you might want to reconsider characterizing your opinions as reality.



Of course not. But a fetus is not a baby, which is why there's a separate word for it. I don't know where the dividing line is, which is why I think families should have the freedom to make such a difficult decision for themselves.



But that concession undermines your entire argument, because those cute little innocent babies were not responsible for the behavior of their parents. What does it say about your morality if you believe a fetus is a baby yet support killing it because of something someone else did?

It just means I'm a human with an understanding at the complications for individual circumstances. Not everything is black and white. I'm quite comfortable with my morality, though unfortunatetly its hard to hold up to it at times. I think its better to have a morality and occassionally have to contradict it or refine it than to have one built and fed to me based on pooling votes or willfully ignoring what I believe is right because it will ease the burden.
 
True, very true but i just don't see how McCain has the wisdom that Obama doesn't and being a POW doesn't make one wise.

Oh, I'm not saying McCain is the answer. I'm still on the fence whether I'm even going to vote at ALL, the choices suck so bad this time. But if I DO vote, it won't be for Obama. To me, he is that dangerous.

I could go on about McCain's suckiness as well, but there are already enough people making those points, so I'll leave that to them. :D
 
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