Presidential Debate Tonight - Obama vs. McCain.... DING, DING, DING

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I don't see what's so wrong about that video... just some kids singing about Obama.. What's so creepy about that? Obviously their parents were involved, but it's nothing scary....

And you're wrong about all Liberals being against God... I went to Church camp when I was a kid... if you send your kids there, I would think it would be perfectly fine if they sang and praised the Lord. Nothing wrong with that at all.
 
I don't see what's so wrong about that video... just some kids singing about Obama.. What's so creepy about that? Obviously their parents were involved, but it's nothing scary....

And you're wrong about all Liberals being against God... I went to Church camp when I was a kid... if you send your kids there, I would think it would be perfectly fine if they sang and praised the Lord. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Yes, I painted rather broadly with my brush, apologies.

But objections to Church camp and teaching children traditional values at such venues seem to always come from the left.
I seem to remember a recent mockumentary ala Michael Moore dealing with the subject matter recently.
I hate to see kids that young in politics on either side. The subject matter and nuances of the material eludes
minds that young.
 
Truth is God is mad because McCain didn't choose a mormon so he has brought a curse upon the republican party in the form of warts, boils, and Sarah Palin... True story. :lecture
 
Truth is God is mad because McCain didn't choose a mormon so he has brought a curse upon the republican party in the form of warts, boils, and Sarah Palin... True story. :lecture

Your theology is suspect to say the least.
 
Yes, I painted rather broadly with my brush, apologies.

But objections to Church camp and teaching children traditional values at such venues seem to always come from the left.
I seem to remember a recent mockumentary ala Michael Moore dealing with the subject matter recently.
I hate to see kids that young in politics on either side. The subject matter and nuances of the material eludes
minds that young.

Jesus Camp - very funny and scary at the same time. But the filmmakers didn't make it up, although they did edit for maximum creepitude.
 
I don't see what's so wrong about that video... just some kids singing about Obama.. What's so creepy about that? Obviously their parents were involved, but it's nothing scary....

And you're wrong about all Liberals being against God... I went to Church camp when I was a kid... if you send your kids there, I would think it would be perfectly fine if they sang and praised the Lord. Nothing wrong with that at all.

"We worship an AWESOME God in the Blue states." Love that part of Obama's 2004 DNC Keynote. Also, kids supporting candidates is nothing new, I don't know why it is suddenly different with Barack. Young people do love his message.
 
"We worship an AWESOME God in the Blue states." Love that part of Obama's 2004 DNC Keynote. Also, kids supporting candidates is nothing new, I don't know why it is suddenly different with Barack. Young people do love his message.

I dont. :D
 
"We worship an AWESOME God in the Blue states." Love that part of Obama's 2004 DNC Keynote. Also, kids supporting candidates is nothing new, I don't know why it is suddenly different with Barack. Young people do love his message.

Yeah but he has no problem sitting in the pews of church for years that has a pastor that says "..not God bless america, G@#damn america!"

You never see kids as young as in the video (5-12) excited or into politics.
Its not on their radar in any meaningful way unless parents are prodding.
He might attract High school and up but not younger.
 
Jesus Camp - very funny and scary at the same time. But the filmmakers didn't make it up, although they did edit for maximum creepitude.

So what side of the political spectrum do think those filmmakers came from?:rolleyes:
 
All you patriots, join me in pledging your allegiance to the United States of America:

obamaNoSalute.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCANi02o

Pathetic. I can't believe he is getting so much support from American's when he clearly doesn't honor the country or the flag enough to show a little bit of respect by REFUSING to put his hand over hhis heart. This is who you want leading your country and our military? Someone who doesn't respect the symbol of the United States? A real patriot some of you guys are getting behind. :rolleyes: Makes me absolutely sick... and sad.


At least the potential First Lady is a perfect match of "patriotism"
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All you patriots, join me in pledging your allegiance to the United States of America:

obamaNoSalute.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCANi02o

Pathetic. I can't believe he is getting so much support from American's when he clearly doesn't honor the country or the flag enough to show a little bit of respect by REFUSING to put his hand over hhis heart. This is who you want leading your country and our military? Someone who doesn't respect the symbol of the United States? A real patriot some of you guys are getting behind. :rolleyes: Makes me absolutely sick... and sad.

At least the potential First Lady is a perfect match of "patriotism"
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I want to congratulate everyone for keeping this civil and lock free! While I understand why people are looking at him as unpatriotic, with all these no flag pin and pledge of allegiance business, I personally do not question his patrotism. In the same way no one questions McCain's because he fought for our country, even though he is sans flag lapel pin all the time. For me, I have to put a certain amount of trust in our candidates. I do not think Obama is out to hurt the country, I think he genuinely wants to help it. He just does not put weight in what we Americans feel is an expression of patriotism, but he does not feel this act alone define's one's patriotism. Millions of Americans also trust him. We can agree to disagree on who would make the best president, but the American people are obviously connecting with his message. There are always different ways of looking at candidates. While it seems crystal clear to many that he is unpatriotic and therefore is unfit to be CinC, it is just a crystal clear to others that he loves the country, flag pin or not. I hope I came across as clear. I really find politics interesting.

It all comes down to Do you trust him or don't you? And if Yes for both men, who do you trust more? This is how I and hopefully most people decide who to support. Without trust in the candidates, their policies mean little. John McCain is an admirable man, and could be a really good president. Then again, so could Obama. So again, who do you trust more? Anyway, I fully understand your position on trusting McCain more.
 
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lol not all young people. Just MOST of them :D (j/k)
But seriously, I think we can all agree if the young people come out and vote in massive numbers, this could only help Obama. The polls and college support are both proof of his young voter appeal. The question is will they come out to the polls?
 
I haven't served in any of the armed forces, so I can't speak from experience, but I am willing to bet if he pulled that crap of refusing to put his hand over his heart in front of a bunch of soldiers, the secret service would need to step in for his own protection. It's the ultimate insult, other than burning or spitting on it.

His lame reasoning, "I'll show my patriotism through my actions" is a cop out. Do those actions include sitting in attendance FOR YEARS at a "church" for these sort of "sermons?"

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I want to congratulate everyone for keeping this civil and lock free! While I understand why people are looking at him as unpatriotic, with all these no flag pin and pledge of allegiance business, I personally do not question his patrotism. In the same way no one questions McCain's because he fought for our country, even though he is sans flag lapel pin all the time. For me, I have to put a certain amount of trust in our candidates. I do not think Obama is out to hurt the country, I think he genuinely wants to help it. He just does not put weight in what we Americans feel is an expression of patriotism, but he does not feel this act alone define's one's patriotism. Millions of Americans also trust him. We can agree to disagree on who would make the best president, but the American people are obviously connecting with his message. There are always different ways of looking at candidates. While it seems crystal clear to many that he is unpatriotic and therefore is unfit to be CinC, it is just a crystal clear to others that he loves the country, flag pin or not. I hope I came across as clear. I really find politics interesting.

It all comes down to Do you trust him or don't you? And if Yes for both men, who do you trust more? This is how I and hopefully most people decide who to support or "get behind" as you say. John McCain is an admirable man, and could be a really good president. Then again, so could Obama. So again, who do you trust more? Anyway, I fully understand your position on trusting McCain more.

Well said... It all comes down to what you think Patriotism is. When I was a kid, I used to roll my eyes during the pledge, I let my mind wander during prayer and I never gave any sort of reverence to the flag. (At one point I was actually thrown out of Church because I refused to take off my hat.) But I still loved my country and believed in what we stand for.

Now, after serving in the military... I honestly get teary eyed when I hear our National Anthem, and I look on the flag with pride. But do I place my hand over my heart or take my hat off when the anthem plays?? No. I don't have to do something because society tells me I must. Doesn't mean I don't care, far from it actually. Does that make me unpatriotic? I hope not, because I would have died for this country if my number was called up... And I served my time with honor and dignity, so everyone would have the freedoms we hold dear.

Patriotism to me, is service. It's also believing in the core fundamentals of our society and what we stand for. If you believe in that, you are a patriot. Flag pins and salutes, hands over your heart... these things do not concern me, and to me... they do not show a lack of patriotism or a lack of respect. They are just gestures that we have determined as important. The fact that Obama is brave enough to go against the standard is refreshing, that he risks political backlash in doing so.. brave.

He's given back to his community, he's running for high office, and he believes in this country. Under my definition, he is patriotic. As with everything we humans hold dear, it all comes down to a belief.
 
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Well said... It all comes down to what you think Patriotism is. When I was a kid, I used to roll my eyes during the pledge, I let my mind wander during prayer and I never gave any sort of reverence to the flag. But I still loved my country and believed in what we stand for.

Now, after serving in the military... I honestly get teary eyed when I hear our National Anthem, and I look on the flag with pride.

Patriotism to me, is service. It's also believing in the core fundamentals of our society and what we stand for. If you believe in that, you are a patriot. Flag pins and salutes, hands over your heart... these things do not concern me, and to me... they do not show a lack of patriotism or a lack of respect. The fact that Obama is brave enough to go against the standard is refreshing, that he risks political backlash in doing so.. brave.

He's given back to his community, he's running for high office, and he believes in this country. Under my definition, he is patriotic. As with everything we humans hold dear, it all comes down to a belief.

I would really like to hear some other people's opinion that served in the military, and if they agree with you.

I get those same feelings of pride when I look at our flag, I get goosebumps during a good rendition of the National Anthem. Sure, when I was in elementary school and Jr. High I thought it was "stupid" and rebelled, but that was part of growing up, which I now have. And to see Obama's clear lack of respect for the flag is upsetting. He hasn't proven squat yet. Where are you getting that from? Tell me something that he has done to make the US a better place?

Where I work, we employ a lot of ex-military that have previous communication experience. And I've heard their opinions on Obama's refusal to put his hand over his heart, and it differs GREATLY from yours.
 
Well said... It all comes down to what you think Patriotism is. When I was a kid, I used to roll my eyes during the pledge, I let my mind wander during prayer and I never gave any sort of reverence to the flag. But I still loved my country and believed in what we stand for.

Now, after serving in the military... I honestly get teary eyed when I hear our National Anthem, and I look on the flag with pride.

Patriotism to me, is service. It's also believing in the core fundamentals of our society and what we stand for. If you believe in that, you are a patriot. Flag pins and salutes, hands over your heart... these things do not concern me, and to me... they do not show a lack of patriotism or a lack of respect. The fact that Obama is brave enough to go against the standard is refreshing, that he risks political backlash in doing so.. brave.

He's given back to his community, he's running for high office, and he believes in this country. Under my definition, he is patriotic. As with everything we humans hold dear, it all comes down to a belief.

And obviously, others in this country also feel the same way we do about patriotism. When Obama said that he saw people wearing the flag pin not acting very patriotic, and therefore wanted to show his patriotism in other non-superficial ways, that resonated with me. See, people always talk about Obama fooling people, like he is some kind of mastermind. Well, let's see, he decided to go back to his legal name, Barack Obama (instead of Barry) before running and has consistantly said he does not feel a flag pin defines patriotism (he could have just as easily wore it non-stop and it would not even be an issue). To me, I see a man who is being honest with Americans, which is where he differs from others running. He has put his faith in the American people not to look at him differently because of his name or flag pin policy. None of these things seem to help Obama become elected, but he does them anyway. If there is one fault I see in Obama, it is that he thinks Americans are too smart. We'll see if he is wrong or right in November.

And Mesa, I agree with you about others being really put off by his actions. I would never want to try and change anyone's mind about what they feel is important or not. I respect those who get teary eyed during the national anthem, I do too sometimes (especially during the Olympics lol). I fully understand where you are coming from, and it goes back to trust. I just hope all Americans vote their conscience this year like yourself and not sit this one out. Thanks for your insight :)
 
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I would really like to hear some other people's opinion that served in the military, and if they agree with you.

I get those same feelings of pride when I look at our flag, I get goosebumps during a good rendition of the National Anthem. Sure, when I was in elementary school and Jr. High I thought it was "stupid" and rebelled, but that was part of growing up, which I now have. And to see Obama's clear lack of respect for the flag is upsetting. He hasn't proven squat yet. Where are you getting that from? Tell me something that he has done to make the US a better place?

Where I work, we employ a lot of ex-military that have previous communication experience. And I've heard their opinions on Obama's refusal to put his hand over his heart, and it differs GREATLY from yours.

The fact of the matter is, many Veterans are Conservatives. I remember being one of the few who was staunchly against Bush and his policies. Many people voted Republican so they would get a pay raise, believe it or not. And it also differs as to what branch of service you are in. The brainwashing is harsher in certain branches than others. :lol

Honestly, ritualistic placement of hands or removing of your hat... it's all ritual. Does it constitute lack of respect to not do these things? Depends on what you believe about rituals. Any ritual such as that is only given power by people. To say that a hand over your heart or taking off the hat shows respect is only because people gave power to those symbolic gestures. We only do them because society warrants it. Not doing them doesn't mean you are disrespectful, it just means you will not bow to a symbolic gesture... but rather show respect in your demeanor and your heart.

As for proof of Obama's service... he gave back to his community as a planner, helping the less fortunate. He rose up to the Senate and has shown that he cares about people on the low end of the spectrum. That is service. It's not like his Daddy was rich and also in politics and gave him the tools he needed to get to where he is. He CHOSE this path, instead of becoming a big money lawyer or something along those lines. That's service to the community. I don't see how that could be in question.
 
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