Presidential Debate Tonight - Obama vs. McCain.... DING, DING, DING

[LChinoz]

The fact of the matter is, many Veterans are Conservatives. I remember being one of the few who was staunchly against Bush and his policies. Many people voted Republican so they would get a pay raise, believe it or not. And it also differs as to what branch of service you are in. The brainwashing is harsher in certain branches than others.

Honestly, ritualistic placement of hands or removing of your hat... it's all ritual. Does it constitute lack of respect to not do these things? Depends on what you believe about rituals. Any ritual such as that is only given power by people. To say that a hand over your heart or taking off the hat shows respect is only because people gave power to those symbolic gestures. We only do them because society warrants it. Not doing them doesn't mean you are disrespectful, it just means you will not bow to a symbolic gesture... but rather show respect in your demeanor and your heart.

As for proof of Obama's service... he gave back to his community as a planner, helping the less fortunate. He rose up to the Senate and has shown that he cares about people on the low end of the spectrum. That is service. It's not like his Daddy was rich and also in politics and gave him the tools he needed to get to where he is. He CHOSE this path, instead of becoming a big money lawyer or something along those lines. That's service to the community. I don't see how that could be in question.

Thanks for your inisight as well DA! The fact that Obama get's as many military donations as he does (see below) says that the idea of a soldier being conservative is not written in stone.

https://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html

In almost a 6 to 1 margin, Obama has recieved more donations from soldiers and those in the military. Now, again, this is not to say he will get more of the military vote. I don't think he will. But it does speak to the idea that we are all different, we all have different values and beliefs, no matter who you are or what you do. Obama resonates with some, but not all.

 

[Mesa]

The fact of the matter is, many Veterans are Conservatives. I remember being one of the few who was staunchly against Bush and his policies. Many people voted Republican so they would get a pay raise, believe it or not. And it also differs as to what branch of service you are in. The brainwashing is harsher in certain branches than others.

Honestly, ritualistic placement of hands or removing of your hat... it's all ritual. Does it constitute lack of respect to not do these things? Depends on what you believe about rituals. Any ritual such as that is only given power by people. To say that a hand over your heart or taking off the hat shows respect is only because people gave power to those symbolic gestures. We only do them because society warrants it. Not doing them doesn't mean you are disrespectful, it just means you will not bow to a symbolic gesture... but rather show respect in your demeanor and your heart.

As for proof of Obama's service... he gave back to his community as a planner, helping the less fortunate. He rose up to the Senate and has shown that he cares about people on the low end of the spectrum. That is service. It's not like his Daddy was rich and also in politics and gave him the tools he needed to get to where he is. He CHOSE this path, instead of becoming a big money lawyer or something along those lines. That's service to the community. I don't see how that could be in question.

Do you still perform those "rituals" to this day? I'm guessing yes.

Obama went to a private prep school as a kid and attended Harvard, he was clearly groomed for politics. I'm pretty sure he comes from money, but don't know his entire background. His Muslim father died when he was young.

I still don't think he's proven anything. So far, we've heard promises about change, but little actions. Bush made lot's of promises and look how that turned out. In Obama's short 2 or 3 years in congress, he's managed to get only 2 bills past. And since those bills aren't being flaunted during his campaign, I'm guessing they weren't that significant.


Edit: Sorry, Obama's father died when Obama was 21. Obama's mother did divorce Obama's father and remarried when he was 6.

 

[Mesa]

Thanks for your inisight as well DA! The fact that Obama get's as many military donations as he does (see below) says that the idea of a soldier being conservative is not written in stone.

https://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html

In almost a 6 to 1 margin, Obama has recieved more donations from soldiers and those in the military. Now, again, this is not to say he will get more of the military vote. I don't think he will. But it does speak to the idea that we are all different, we all have different values and beliefs, no matter who you are or what you do. Obama resonates with some, but not all.

Wow, good link. I totally wasn't expecting to read that.

 

[LChinoz]

Do you still perform those "rituals" to this day? I'm guessing yes.

Obama went to a private prep school as a kid and attended Harvard, he was clearly groomed for politics. I'm pretty sure he comes from money, but don't know his entire background. His Muslim father died when he was young.

I still don't think he's proven anything. So far, we've heard promises about change, but little actions. Bush made lot's of promises and look how that turned out. In Obama's short 2 or 3 years in congress, he's managed to get only 2 bills past. And since those bills aren't being flaunted during his campaign, I'm guessing they weren't that significant.

Interesting, but I think the fact that he went to Punahou, Columbia, and then Harvard means about as much as the fact that Palin went to 5 colleges in six years. They both found their way into politics, in one way or another, but I do not believe either was "groomed" for it. Interesting perspective though.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

lol not all young people. Just MOST of them (j/k)
But seriously, I think we can all agree if the young people come out and vote in massive numbers, this could only help Obama. The polls and college support are both proof of his young voter appeal. The question is will they come out to the polls?

Yeah..it would help him..but he has to worry about them getting up early enough to beat the lines. haha and if they dont, waiting in the lines long enough to make it to the booth.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Thanks for your inisight as well DA! The fact that Obama get's as many military donations as he does (see below) says that the idea of a soldier being conservative is not written in stone.

https://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html

In almost a 6 to 1 margin, Obama has recieved more donations from soldiers and those in the military. Now, again, this is not to say he will get more of the military vote. I don't think he will. But it does speak to the idea that we are all different, we all have different values and beliefs, no matter who you are or what you do. Obama resonates with some, but not all.

Well said... It is very true. We as humans cannot be placed in boxes based on what we do or who we are. And interesting link, cool to see that I am not the only one who has donated.

And Mesa, those rituals... I do not do them to this day. I don't put my hand over my heart or take off my hat indoors or even at the dinner table. I don't pray before meals or before bed... I pray when I want, take my hat off when I want to, and give LOADS of respect to my flag with my eyes and thoughts. Rituals mean nothing to me, yet I still respect them.

 

[The Josh]

I think you can be patriotic and show it in different ways. During the pledge at school I put my hand over my hear but during basketball games during the NA I usually don't. Why? During the pledge I'm in front of a bunch of kids that wouldn't understand. When the NA is being played I usually close my eyes and say thanks for everything I could be thankful.

Obama went to a private prep school as a kid and attended Harvard, he was clearly groomed for politics. I'm pretty sure he comes from money, but don't know his entire background. His Muslim father died when he was young.

Just so you can learn a bit more about the man. Obama Biography

You'd be wrong though that he comes from money. So reading some info on the man might be good for ya.

 

[hoodonit00]

And heres some more reading material about Obama.

https://barackobamacandidate.org/

 

[Mesa]

And Mesa, those rituals... I do not do them to this day. I don't put my hand over my heart or take off my hat indoors or even at the dinner table. I don't pray before meals or before bed... I pray when I want, take my hat off when I want to, and give LOADS of respect to my flag with my eyes and thoughts. Rituals mean nothing to me, yet I still respect them.

I'm not talking about prayer. I quit going to church shortly after my parents made me, but still have respect for some God, just have yet to decide who I believe him to be.

I'm talking about when you are at a baseball game and someone sings the National Anthem, do you put your hand over your heart or salute? Or if ever at an event where pledge is said, do you participate?

It's a personal question, so consider it a rhetorical one.

I'll go on recrd and say that I do, as well as remove my hat.

I don't think it's very patriotic to teach our youth that it's okay to NOT show your patriotism by choosing NOT to do these things. It should be taught in school that showing respect and patriotism for your country is a good thing and our leader should LEAD by example. I'm not talking about forcing kids to pray. I'm talking about that if you are a resident of the United States and you truely love our country, you should show a little respect.

 

[Mesa]

Just so you can learn a bit more about the man. Obama Biography

You'd be wrong though that he comes from money. So reading some info on the man might be good for ya.

I will, and I appreciate the info.

 

[hoodonit00]

171. Conduct during playing
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.


from here.

https://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#171

 

[Spartan Rex]

Not putting your hand over your heart isnt unpatriotic, however add that to his association with Bill Ayers a known terrorist, his America hating pastor,Tony Riesco ties,the 3rd most liberal senator in congress, wanting to raise taxes, Michelle's "For the first time proud to be an American..."comment, being a Ivy league lawyer, tells a S.F. crowd that "bitter small town americans cling to guns or religion", no history of bipartisan ship, comes out of the historically corrupt Chicago political machine.....take that sum total and this guy stinks to high heaven.


Thats just off the top of my head.

 

[DarkArtist81]

171. Conduct during playing
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.


from here.

https://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#171

Don't get me wrong.. when I was in... I knew the Code of Conduct and Regs enough to do what I was told. In the military, you are not an individual anymore, and have to follow the rules no matter what. I could put aside my personal standards in serving my country.

There were many times I was walking home from the flight light and the music started playing... nobody was around or could call me out.. but I stood and faced the music, paying my reverence to the flag. I always followed the rules to the T, I never ignored them.

But I'm a civilian now, so the Code doesn't apply to me.. I have Freedom of Expression again and can decide myself how best to pay honors to the Red, White and Blue.

 

[Bannister]

Don't get me wrong.. when I was in... I knew the Code of Conduct and Regs enough to do what I was told. In the military, you are not an individual anymore, and have to follow the rules no matter what. I could put aside my personal standards in serving my country.

There were many times I was walking home from the flight light and the music started playing... nobody was around or could call me out.. but I stood and faced the music, paying my reverence to the flag. I always followed the rules to the T, I never ignored them.

But I'm a civilian now, so the Code doesn't apply to me.. I have Freedom of Expression again and can decide myself how best to pay honors to the Red, White and Blue.

Josh, why do you hate America?

 

[DarkArtist81]

Josh, why do you hate America?

Because I'm the devil....

 

[Bannister]

Because I'm the devil....

 

[CelticPredator]

Teh Devil is a great painter.

 

[Malice]

Because I'm the devil....

...........

 

[Mesa]

Don't get me wrong.. when I was in... I knew the Code of Conduct and Regs enough to do what I was told. In the military, you are not an individual anymore, and have to follow the rules no matter what. I could put aside my personal standards in serving my country.

There were many times I was walking home from the flight light and the music started playing... nobody was around or could call me out.. but I stood and faced the music, paying my reverence to the flag. I always followed the rules to the T, I never ignored them.

But I'm a civilian now, so the Code doesn't apply to me.. I have Freedom of Expression again and can decide myself how best to pay honors to the Red, White and Blue.

Would you expect the Commander in Chief, or someone running for that office, to follow that same code of conduct and regulations?

I know I expect it of my leader.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Would you expect the Commander in Chief, or someone running for that office, to follow that same code of conduct and regulations?

I know I expect it of my leader.

No... The only thing I expect out of my leader would be for him to do his job honorably, to try to do what is best for the people, to respect our country and the people within it, to respect the Bill of Rights and our basic freedoms, and to do his best to keep us the best country on the planet. That's all I care about.

The Code of Military Conduct is just that... for Military men and women. It has no bearing whatsoever for our political leaders. They wear no uniforms, they stand no watches, they don't fall under that rule structure.