RATE or REVIEW The Last Movie You Watched.

[GasparZizou]

Oh, come on...stretching

**** off that's not stretching

Of course Morpheus is gonna tell the human side of the story with the knowledge that he has, which is not complete, he's human, but it's subtleties like those that let you in in the truth of the matter without spoon-feeding.

that entire sequence shows the machines as the villains, growing humans in fields, and turning us in to....*Morpheus holds battery.* It's exposition, and we learn what we need to know about their world, but it clearly makes the machines look like the villains with the humans living scared underground.

Yes that's true, doesn't go against anything I said

It doesn't matter if their intention was to show the machines as the villains, which is how I initially saw it, but if what you said is the true and it is,
then it changes the whole story and how you view the ending and what's to come.

No it doesn't change the story at all.

Not having that extra information makes it look like Neo helped the evil machines to bring temporary peace to save Zion. The message of humans becoming better and wanting to coexist with the machines and all that doesn't come across in the film...if that was the whole point of Neo's sacrifice, so yes, I do think it affects how people view the film, the machines, and Neo's sacrifice. That little extra information makes the machines more tolerant and reasonable, but without it, they look like Skynet.

What makes you think it's temporary peace? Doesn't come across in the film? That's up to you, the movie clearly says Zion is to be destroyed time and time again EXCEPT this time, what humans do with this opportunity is up to them, and it's NOT up to the film to tell you what happens next.

The fact that the machines are evil or not doesn't affect the fact that Zion was saved by Neo and it doesn't affect the story, you haven't told me exactly how does this affect the story.

It affects how YOU view this world, but doesn't not affect the story in a structural way at all, the movies still function perfectly fine under the story and the themes are equally powerful.

I get that, there was a video game too, but when I saw the films in theater, all I needed to know was in the film, and the films made the machines look like evil villains and the humans like victims, and that was fine. To me it was a modern take on the Terminator concept of machines taking over, but with computers and Kung Fu.

The game doesn't count, I think, there were many games.

The Skynet thing was only a fraction of the themes in the movie, there still is the virtual reality thing, the power of will, the power of knowledge, etc etc, there were many underlying themes that make it a great sci-fi.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Grease - 8.5/10

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

but it's subtleties like those that let you in in the truth of the matter without spoon-feeding.

No, it doesn't. You can ask anyone, and they'll tell you that the machines were evil and unreasonable...not trustworthy or tolerant. It's not about spoon feeding. It takes one line or one scene to make it clear, but instead you have Smith, the Oracle, the French guy, and the the Architect babbling a bunch of bull ****.

Just have the Architect tell Neo, "In the year 2000 we gave your kind a chance to coexist in a better world, but you didn't take it because of pride...(or whatever). Your kind will never get that chance again." Until it happens in part 3 when the anomaly Smith becomes an unforeseen threat. Simple. It even makes the Architect scene more memorable.

No it doesn't change the story at all.

The fact that the machines are evil or not doesn't affect the fact that Zion was saved by Neo and it doesn't affect the story, you haven't told me exactly how does this affect the story.

Well, not what happens literally. What happens still happens, by how that information is interpret by the audience does change when you have all the information that's not in the film, and that's just as important as what literally happens in a scene. If the meaning of a scene, a sequence, or the ending has a different connotation by knowing certain details that aren't in the film and the meaning is lost, then the audience is not getting the story.

If you watch a scene of a man shooting another man with a gun and that's all you know, and I ask you what happened, you'll say a man shot a guy. That's what literally happened. However, if some extra information is given to you, like the man that got shot was a rapist and a killer, and he killed the other man's family, when you watch the scene your view and understanding of it will not be the same. The same thing happens sure, but it makes more sense now that you have all the facts. Action without meaning, is meaningless.

What makes you think it's temporary peace? Doesn't come across in the film? That's up to you, the movie clearly says Zion is to be destroyed time and time again EXCEPT this time, what humans do with this opportunity is up to them

Not counting the animatrix and just by watching the films, what makes you think that the peace is not temporary? That the machines are trustworthy and that they'll keep their end of the deal? They never gave the audience any reason to trust the machines. What comes across is Neo making a deal with the enemy...instead of destroying them. Since there's no precedent of the machines wanting peace and wanting to coexist, it looks like Neo is taking a chance with an untrustworthy villain. If the information from the animatrix was in the film, then suddenly, we know that the machines are open to negotiate because there's a precedent, we know that Neo's sacrifice will be worth it, but more importantly, we understand why Neo no longer should destroy the machines, because they weren't that bad to begin with. None of that comes across in the film.

It affects how YOU view this world, but doesn't not affect the story in a structural way at all, the movies still function perfectly fine under the story and the themes are equally powerful.

No, it affects how people view the film, which was one of my points.

then it changes the whole story and how you view the ending and what's to come. Not having that extra information makes it look like Neo helped the evil machines to bring temporary peace to save Zion. The message of humans becoming better and wanting to coexist with the machines and all that doesn't come across in the film...if that was the whole point of Neo's sacrifice, so yes, I do think it affects how people view the film, the machines, and Neo's sacrifice. That little extra information makes the machines more tolerant and reasonable, but without it, they look like Skynet.

The story functions perfectly fine as poor humans fighting evil machines. The idea of reasonable machines wanting to coexist and humans being the ones having to adapt and accept the status quo, instead of defeating the machines for there to be true change, is totally lost and nonexistent, unless you watch the Animatrix. What literally happens or what comes across to most people, is Neo saved Zion by stopping the war temporarily, but the status quo doesn't change. Anyway, I think I'm done talking about it. This is another subject that will never end....unless you want to

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

The Godfather - 10/10

 

[GasparZizou]

No, it doesn't. You can ask anyone, and they'll tell you that the machines were evil and unreasonable...not trustworthy or tolerant.

And most people just so happened to not get the movies.

Well, not what happens literally. What happens still happens, by how that information is interpret by the audience does change when you have all the information that's not in the film, and that's just as important as what literally happens in a scene. If the meaning of a scene, a sequence, or the ending has a different connotation by knowing certain details that aren't in the film and the meaning is lost, then the audience is not getting the story.

If you watch a scene of a man shooting another man with a gun and that's all you know, and I ask you what happened, you'll say a man shot a guy. That's what literally happened. However, if some extra information is given to you, like the man that got shot was a rapist and a killer, and he killed the other man's family, when you watch the scene your view and understanding of it will not be the same. The same thing happens sure, but it makes more sense now that you have all the facts.

None of it affects the fact that Neo saved Zion and that there was total change in the cycle and that humans have now a chance, the fact that the machines are evil or not is irrelevant to this.

Not counting the animatrix and just by watching the films, what makes you think that the peace is not temporary? That the machines are trustworthy and that they'll keep their end of the deal? They never gave the audience any reason to trust the machines. What comes across is Neo making a deal with the enemy...instead of destroying them. Since there's no precedent of the machines wanting peace and wanting to coexist, it looks like Neo is taking a chance with an untrustworthy villain. If the information from the animatrix was in the film, then suddenly, we know that the machines are open to negotiate because there's a precedent, we know that Neo's sacrifice will be worth it, but more importantly, we understand why Neo no longer should destroy the machines, because they weren't that bad to begin with. None of that comes across in the film.

The machines are logical beings, peace means peace, the cycle was broken, the destruction of Zion will not be repeated, if you understand how computers work this is clear to you.

I have been humoring you in the concept that the machines are evil, machines are not evil, they're just machines, surviving, if the machines promise peace, they machines will have peace, period, they are not untrustworthy and the machines in the Matrix are very different from Skynet.

And no, the machines are not "open" to negotiate, man you're really not getting any of this

No, it affects how people view the film, which was one of my points.

No, even without that information the expectations were still misplaced.

The story functions perfectly fine as poor humans fighting evil machines. The idea of reasonable machines wanting to coexist and humans being the ones having to adapt and accept the status quo, instead of defeating the machines for there to be true change, is totally lost and nonexistent, unless you watch the Animatrix. What literally happens or what comes across to most people, is Neo saved Zion by stopping the war temporarily, but the status quo doesn't change.

smh tbh fam

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

And most people just so happened to not get the movies.

They do, when they're well written.

None of it affects the fact that Neo saved Zion and that there was total change in the cycle and that humans have now a chance, the fact that the machines are evil or not is irrelevant to this.

That's your interpretation of it, but then again...you saw the Animatrix.

The machines are logical beings, peace means peace, the cycle was broken, the destruction of Zion will not be repeated, if you understand how computers work this is clear to you.

I have been humoring you in the concept that the machines are evil, machines are not evil, they're just machines, surviving, if the machines promise peace, they machines will have peace, period, they are not untrustworthy and the machines in the Matrix are very different from Skynet.


And no, the machines are not "open" to negotiate, man you're really not getting any of this

Hey, I blame the Wachowski's awful writing for "not getting it."I understand what the film shows, and the machines wanted to destroy Zion, which is a pretty extreme solution to their problem if all they want is to survive and coexist with the humans. They might be logical, but they still showed emotion and anger when Neo offer them help, and you can't trust an emotional being.

No, even without that information the expectations were still misplaced.

Because people only know what they are given. If you only get one side of the story, then it becomes about that. Like you said,

Of course Morpheus is gonna tell the human side of the story with the knowledge that he has, which is not complete, he's human

We view the films from an incomplete human point of view, in which the machines are bad, not just surviving. And that affects people's understanding of the story. The machines might not be Skynet, but that's how it comes across, because in all the babbling that goes on in that film, they never made that point clear.

 

[Meem]

They do, when they're well written.

Clearly not.

That's your interpretation of it, but then again...you saw the Animatrix.

No, even without seeing it, I'm not taking into account anything showed in the Animatrix.

Hey, I blame the Wachowski's awful writing for "not getting it."I understand what the film shows, and the machines wanted to destroy Zion, which is a pretty extreme solution to their problem if all they want is to survive and coexist with the humans. They might be logical, but they still showed emotion and anger when Neo offer them help, and you can't trust an emotional being.

There's nothing awful about it.

And it's not an extreme solution, they're machines, there's nothing extreme about it, this really just shows how you just don't understand what machines are, and again, they don't want to coexist, they wantED, also, you should understand that AI is well capable of PRETENDING emotions.

Because people only know what they are given. If you only get one side of the story, then it becomes about that.

And they were given everything they needed.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Clearly not.


No, even without seeing it, I'm not taking into account anything showed in the Animatrix.


There's nothing awful about it.




And they were given everything they needed.

Gaspar...is that you? Are you PRETENDING to be someone else?

And it's not an extreme solution, they're machines, there's nothing extreme about it, this really just shows how you just don't understand what machines are, and again, they don't want to coexist, they wantED, also, you should understand that AI is well capable of PRETENDING emotions.

Given the context of the scene and the incomplete human point of view of the story, there's no indication or reason for us to believe that the machines were pretending emotions....even if they could do such a thing. There are no signs ever of the machines faking emotions. I'm sure the machines are capable of many things, but only what we are shown in the film matters.

 

[Meem]

Gaspar...is that you? Are you PRETENDING to be someone else?

it's not me, shhhhhh!

It's not like I'm the machines or anything....

Given the context of the scene and the incomplete human point of view of the story, there's no indication or reason for us to believe that the machines were pretending emotions....even if they could do such a thing. There are no signs ever of the machines faking emotions. I'm sure the machines are capable of many things, but only what we are shown in the film matters.

Dude, the machines pretending emotions is just sci-fi/AI 101, if they have to explain that to you then you (the audience) are flawed, not the movie.

One of the usual topics in sci-fi movies is that no one knows if said emotions are real or not, but logic indicates they are faked because machines aren't capable of real emotions.

In this case, rage could be interpreted as just a way to hide the fact that the machines do indeed need Neo as well as to intimidate him.

This is something you see in every single sci-fi work that deals with AI.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Dude, the machines pretending emotions is just sci-fi/AI 101, if they have to explain that to you then you (the audience) are flawed, not the movie.

One of the usual topics in sci-fi movies is that no one knows if said emotions are real or not, but logic indicates they are faked because machines aren't capable of real emotions.

In this case, rage could be interpreted as just a way to hide the fact that the machines do indeed need Neo as well as to intimidate him.

This is something you see in every single sci-fi work that deals with AI.

Now you are bringing up other films into the equation to justify your previous point. Not all machines fake emotions in other films, not in Blade runner or I Robot, and even that Tomorrow Land film. Those machines developed emotions and feelings. I'm sure there are more examples.

 

[Meem]

I'm not bringing up anything uncalled for, it's a classic and well known trope of the sci-fi genre. Yes, in both Blade Runner and I, Robot it's also a thing. There's always a sort of "it's a machine, machines don't have feelings" and there's never a definite answer to whether they're real emotions.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

and there's never a definite answer to whether they're real emotions.

Thus, making it possible for a machine to develop emotions, if the audience wishes to believe it

 

[Meem]

Thus, making it possible for a machine to develop emotions, if the audience wishes to believe it

That doesn't make them real, they're still pretend emotions.

Dude you need more sci-fi in your life.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That doesn't make them real, they're still pretend emotions.

Dude you need more sci-fi in your life.

Nope, there's no definitive answer as you pointed out. No definitive answer means, they may or may not be real. God...we do sound like nerds

 

[Meem]

Nope, there's no definitive answer as you pointed out. No definitive answer means, they may or may not be real. God...we do sound like nerds

this is the place to do that

 

[pturtle]

Those heels tho That's a Reloaded Neo.

What I mean is, by the end of the first film, Neo is Superman and he tells the Matrix that he's going to wake people up and change everything because he's the "one," but then in part 2, the new agents are stronger, Smith is back for no reason...even he couldn't explain it, and we find out that Neo is not the first "one," just the latest "one" And eventually, the trilogy is about Neo fighting Smith...which is not what we're led to believe at the end of the first Matrix. So instead of being about Neo vs the Matrix and defeating it, it becomes about Neo vs Smith again, making a deal with the Matrix to save it, and things pretty much stay the same. I still like the films for what they are, but my expectations were higher....and that's my fault.

Damn I caught this late, but most of this is just inspired by 1984, basically we're lied to in the first movie, and we find out the One was nothing more than another system of control. Usually when things are inspired by 1984 people are usually left disappointed because it means what ever comes next is playing on our expectations

I still think the trilogy is one of, if not the best out there though.


Also, we the audience never need to know about Machines wanting to coexist in the past because Neo sacrificing himself to save everything was more than enough reason for them to want to work together.

Everything in the plot isn't thoroughly explained because the Wachowski's were basically using Neo as a vessel for the audience, we learn everything from his perspective. When he's lied to we're lied to, when he's given the truth we're given the truth. The movie does a good job at making the audience sort of participate to try and piece everything together, but by the end we know the truth.

I'll never understand why people didn't like Reloaded, but I do get why they hated Revolutions, it's very unconventional. Outside of a few cheesy scenes I think it was a perfect ending to the trilogy.

The first movie almost hinted at it being impossible to have a happy ending, people like Cipher might not want to be freed, so in Neo's sacrifice, literally everyone wins, and everyone is given a choice.

 

[Meem]

Damn I caught this late, but most of this is just inspired by 1984, basically we're lied to in the first movie, and we find out the One was nothing more than another system of control. Usually when things are inspired by 1984 people are usually left disappointed because it means what ever comes next is playing on our expectations

I still think the trilogy is one of, if not the best out there though.


Also, we the audience never need to know about Machines wanting to coexist in the past because Neo sacrificing himself to save everything was more than enough reason for them to want to work together.

Everything in the plot isn't thoroughly explained because the Wachowski's were basically using Neo as a vessel for the audience, we learn everything from his perspective. When he's lied to we're lied to, when he's given the truth we're given the truth. The movie does a good job at making the audience sort of participate to try and piece everything together, but by the end we know the truth.

I'll never understand why people didn't like Reloaded, but I do get why they hated Revolutions, it's very unconventional. Outside of a few cheesy scenes I think it was a perfect ending to the trilogy.

The first movie almost hinted at it being impossible to have a happy ending, people like Cipher might not want to be freed, so in Neo's sacrifice, literally everyone wins, and everyone is given a choice.

You read 1984 because of MGSV didn't you? I haven't read it in ages.

 

[pturtle]

Absolutely

After reading it I was shocked at how similar it was to The Matrix Trilogy. It definitely helped me understand MGSV more, but I won't lie, there's still quite a few things I'm a little lost at regarding some events and characters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Damn I caught this late, but most of this is just inspired by 1984, basically we're lied to in the first movie, and we find it the One was nothing more than another system of control. Usually when things are inspired by 1984 people are left disappointed because it means what ever comes next is playing on our expectations

I still think the trilogy is one of, if not the best out there though.


Also, we the audience never need to know about Machines wanting to coexist in the past because Neo sacrificing himself to save everything was more than enough reason for them to want to work together.

Everything in the plot isn't throughly explained because the Wachowski's were basically using Neo as a vessel for the audience, we learn everything from his perspective. When he's lied to, we're lied to, when he's given the truth, we're given the truth. The movie does a good job at making the audience sort of participate to try and piece everything together, but by the end we know the truth.

I'll never understand why people didn't like Reloaded, but I do get why they hated Revolutions, it's very unconventional. Outside of a few cheesy scenes I think it was a perfect ending to the trilogy.

The first movie almost hinted at it being impossible to have a happy ending, people like Cipher might not want to be freed, so in Neo's sacrifice, literally everyone wins, and everyone is given a choice.

Oh...now you want some too?

First Gaspar was throwing everything at me, even other movies and the history of sci fi,

but I was totally like

But then he came back as a "new man...sort of speak." He can't explain it.

And I was like

Now you show up all like

but I'm really tired so all my brain sees is

But that's my incomplete side of the story from my human point of view

 

[a-dev]

Gaspar...is that you? Are you PRETENDING to be someone else?

He's an Agent.