RATE or REVIEW The Last Movie You Watched.

[Gates70]

Predator 2 - 4/10

 

[Snake Plissken]

Predator 2 - 4/10

Slightly under where I'd put it, but yeah.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

No, I said ONE of the reasons it sucked was that, and IT WAS, not only did they try to make them proto-aztecs, which was retarded and dissonant. They also tried to develop a character, which sucked even more.

Hell, I don't know why you're against using the same formula, twice they've tried to "explore" in a very fanfic way and both times it sucked, the same formula in a different kind of environment is the way to go, and P2 did develop certain ideas and gave us a little more insight of what the Predators are, just enough, they didn't need to go and turn it full AVP.

I know what you said because I quoted your post Like I said about AVP, there are plenty of reasons why those films are bad, like the human characters getting in the way, the setting, even the design of the predators wasn't great, but the idea of exploring the predator race isn't really why those films failed, not that they did a great job with it either, but the only interesting thing about P2 it happens at the end when Glover goes inside the ship...but all that is wasted, and they did nothing with it. P2 just puts the predator chasing a cop in a modern city...using every 90's cliche. It's a bad movie....

ask again, in what way does he "use" the jungle? In what way does he do anything different than what he does in the city THAT ^ is not an answer, "He's a hunter" Well he's hunting in the city too, "he knows the jungle" Well he knows the city, "Camouflages" his bloody camouflage is literally making himself invisible, how is that any different in the city? You keep saying "he used the environment against them" HOW???

First, he is hunter, jungles and forests are environment suitable for hunting, which is why people leave a city when they go hunting, and yes he knew the jungle because he or his kind...not sure that was clear, had been in that jungle since the woman/prisoner was younger. Arnie's crew had never been there before, so they didn't know place as well as the Predator, which is one of the reasons even when Dillon and Max can keep track of him, he was able to kill them even though they had a strategy to get him, but he was able to get around them and it wasn't just because he was "invisible." The city is not an unfamiliar place...especially for a cop or a human...even Busey's character was hunting the Predator and was keeping track of him, which is something that never happens in P1 because they have a lack or resources and they were stuck in a foreign place with no way out. It's called home field advantage, dude.

At the end the environment worked against him in P1. Didn't it?

Yes, so? That was one of the best parts of the film, seeing the hunter become the hunted..briefly, seeing the usage of the mud, and Dutch using the jungle as a weapon to his advantage is all possible because of the Jungle environment...the whole movie benefits from the jungle setting, which is why I've been saying Predator belongs in Jungles/Forests environment, because it's like a character in the film. They literally have scenes of characters like Billy looking at the environment...observing the trees and we see it from his point of view. It's kind of like how the Revnant has all these shots of the environment where nothing is really happening but we see it from the character's point of view, whereas the city in P2 is not really as interesting.

And you're right, that's not good enough an answer AT ALL, you're trying too hard to work your way around this one too, my question is simple, what does he do in the jungle that is any different at ALL, of what he does in the city?

His powers are the same, but he has home field advantage, and he benefits from it in P1, which he does since the trees are out of reach for the humans and the jungle is nothing but tall trees, combine that with the crew's lack of knowledge of the area, their limited resources, and the Predator can literally be on top of them...constantly.

You say it like I'm running away from that, I've said it 4 times now, I am not going to spoon feed what you missed, if you want to know, watch it again, it's there, if you miss it, you missed it.

You're not one to demand to that when you've tried so hard give me a non-answer in the question above.

I'm not implying anything, but if in your mind you are interpreting what I'm saying a certain way, then maybe you are running away from the question and you know it, so maybe that's why you view what I said that way. All I have to do is watch the scenes with Jerry and Leona...which aren't that many...and I don't even have to because they are never given a meaningful moment together of character developing. They just worked together ....but hey, it's okay...don't worry about it.

That's not talking about the writing, give me specific lines, specific plot points and why they're good, you're just saying "the writing's good because the lines are good" that's not justification.[/qoute]

Although you don't need justification, I know P1 is great, I've quoted some lines myself in the review, but somehow you turned this argument into me hating P1 and saying P2 is better what the hell man?

There was no need to give specific plot points or specific lines...although I did reference the character's intro and how great it was compared to P2. I told you to read the Hunter script which is very detailed compared to a lot of other scripts ...but now you want to be spoon fed lines and plot points...seriously? As far as what we are discussing, my point was always that P1 is significantly a better film, and that P2 was not as good, although after watching part of the film on youtube, it reminded me how bad it was, so my point has evolved. If things evolved into something else, it can happen when quoting so many lines and paragraphs and there can be some misinterpretations, but we did agree at one point that P1 is the best film, but you still felt that P2 was almost as good as P1, which your score of 8.5 and the P1 score of 8.5, does suggest that they are at least equal, in your opinion.

That may be so, but having an original idea doesn't = writing it better, I'm simply saying the script in P2 is slightly, slightly more solid than P1's, if less original.

But it's not just because it's an original idea...which is a factor because that's the foundation in which the script it built on, but the scenes written in P1 are more memorable like I've said before, Dillon's and Dutch's intro , that was written just like it happens in film and it's feels original with the epic hand shake, the "pushing too may pencils" line, all memorable elements which make the scene great , whereas P2's character's intro isn't memorable at all. That says something about the writing, especially when P2 is just using cliche characters like the angry boss yelling at Glover..and Glover is the stereotypical cop who breaks the rules and doesn't follow the orders. One of the first things they tell you when you're studying screen writing is to avoid obvious cliches...oh and starting a film with a dream and a character waking up, but that doesn't apply to P2, it does apply to Batman Begins and Matrix 2 though

Jeeeez

It's true, the acting is horrendous and the cliche characters and moments are so dated, it's embarrassing. The only thing that can make that film an even worse 90's film, is if Jean Claude Van Damme shows up doing a split in it

 

[rushmore223]

I think this can only be settled by a Duel to the Death.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Hell in a Thread match.

 

[K07]

It's been a while since I saw it for the first time but from memory this would be my rating:

Predator - 4/10

Not bothering with any sequels to it. Bye.

 

[GasparZizou]

but the idea of exploring the predator race isn't really why those films failed

As I said, it's PART of it, and it is indeed, taking away mystery from the Predator is tasteless and unnecessary.

First, he is hunter, jungles and forests are environment suitable for hunting, which is why people leave a city when they go hunting, and yes he knew the jungle because he or his kind...not sure that was clear, had been in that jungle since the woman/prisoner was younger. Arnie's crew had never been there before, so they didn't know place as well as the Predator, which is one of the reasons even when Dillon and Max can keep track of him, he was able to kill them even though they had a strategy to get him, but he was able to get around them and it wasn't just because he was "invisible." The city is not an unfamiliar place...especially for a cop or a human...even Busey's character was hunting the Predator and was keeping track of him, which is something that never happens in P1 because they have a lack or resources and they were stuck in a foreign place with no way out. It's called home field advantage, dude.

A human hunter hunts in the jungle or in a forest because that's where preys are at an Alien hunter hunting in the city because that is where game is is not illogical at all.

He also got around Keyes' team despite having a en even more elaborate and sophisticated plan to get him. ??? No difference yet.

Yes, so? That was one of the best parts of the film, seeing the hunter become the hunted..briefly, seeing the usage of the mud, and Dutch using the jungle as a weapon to his advantage is all possible because of the Jungle environment...the whole movie benefits from the jungle setting, which is why I've been saying Predator belongs in Jungles/Forests environment, because it's like a character in the film. They literally have scenes of characters like Billy looking at the environment...observing the trees and we see it from his point of view. It's kind of like how the Revnant has all this shots of the environment where nothing is really happening but we see it from the character's point of view, whereas the city in P2 is not really as interesting.

He becomes the prey in P2 too ? See? Still no difference, the city is very interesting, everybody losing their minds because of the heat and the crime, Harrigan seeing the cloaked Pred in the building with a look on his face wondering if it was a heat mirage, that **** was great.

His powers are the same, but he has home field advantage, and he benefits from it in P1, which he does since the trees are out of reach for the humans and the jungle is nothing but tall trees, combine that with the crew's lack of knowledge of the area, their limited resources, and the Predator can literally be on top of them...constantly.

Home field advantage, huh? Yet it differs in nothing from what he does in P2... Trees are out of reach? It's not like Dutch went full Tarzan at the end right?

Lack of knowledge of the area can be achieved in the city, but how is that related to the Predator himself?

I'm not implying anything, but if in your mind you are interpreting what I'm saying a certain way, then maybe you are running away from the question and you know it, so maybe that's why you view what I said that way. All I have to do is watch the scenes with Jerry and Leona...which aren't that many...and I don't even have to because they are never given a meaningful moment together of character developing. They just worked together ....but hey, it's okay...don't worry about it.

I'm not running away from it, I'm just not spoon feeding you.

There was no need to give specific plot points or specific lines...although I did reference the character's intro and how great it was compared to P2. I told you to read the Hunter script which is very detailed compared to a lot of other scripts ...but now you want to be spoon fed lines and plot points...seriously? As far as what we are discussing, my point was always that P1 is significantly a better film, and that P2 was not as good, although after watching part of the film on youtube, it reminded me how bad it was, so my point has evolved. If things evolved into something else, it can happen when quoting so many lines and paragraphs and there can be some misinterpretations, but we did agree at one point that P1 is the best film, but you still felt that P2 was almost as good as P1, which your score of 8.5 and the P1 score of 8.5, does suggest that they are at least equal, in your opinion.

The Hunter script? I missed that.

That's not spoon feeding, you were saying how P2 writing was "bad", yet you don't specify how? Because you don't remember it? Ok.

Actually, soon after I gave the scores I wanted to change it but forgot, I was gonna give P1 a 9 and P2 an 8, because I started listening to the soundtracks, and not only P1 soundtrack is glorious, the movie is *perfectly* musicalized and paced, whereas P2's pace is more crude and the soundtrack, save for a few tracks, is lackluster.

But it's not just because it's an original idea...which is a factor because that's the foundation in which the script it built on, but the scenes written in P1 are more memorable like I've said before, Dillon's and Dutch's intro , that was written just like it happens in film and it's feels original with the epic hand shake, the "pushing too may pencils" line, all memorable elements which make the scene great , whereas P2's character's intro isn't memorable at all. That says something about the writing, especially when P2 is just using cliche characters like the angry boss yelling at Glover..and Glover is the stereotypical cop who breaks the rules and doesn't follow the orders. One of the first things they tell you when you're studying screen writing is to avoid obvious cliches...oh

You keep saying P2 is cliche like if P1 wasn't, BOTH movies are LOADED with Cliches, I actually just found a thread in 4chan talking about the movie there's a post of a guy who describes it pretty well.

Predator: cliche commando movie with hints of strange **** until the second half
Predator 2:cliche detective movie with bits of strange **** until the second half

Speaking of which, did you start that thread? /tv/ - Now that the dust has settled... What does /tv/ th - Television & Film - 4chan

Since you like appealing to popularity, look at the amount of people who think "exploring" the Predators background is a stupid idea, I haven't posted there btw.

It's true, the acting is horrendous and the cliche characters and moments are so dated, it's embarrassing. The only thing that can make that film an even worse 90's film, is if Jean Claude Van Damme shows up doing a split in it

The acting from Blades and Alonso was iffy at times, not much outside that.

 

[RIDDICK]

This'll make your heads spin.. I don't mind MK: Annihilation.

I don't too. Out of three terrible MK products released in 1997 "Annihilation" was the lesser evil.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I don't too. Out of three terrible MK products released in 1997 "Annihilation" was the lesser evil.

I think I might of played MK4 once.

 

[RIDDICK]

They didn't replace him, he was in the middle of another film I believe.

In the middle of a ****ing Beowulf no less.

I think I might of played MK4 once.

You poor bastard...

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Werckmeister Harmonies - 10/10

The best film so far of this century. Don't believe me? Listen to this snippet of the soundtrack:

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

As I said, it's PART of it, and it is indeed, taking away mystery from the Predator is tasteless and unnecessary.

The reason all the sequels failed...and that includes P2, is because they didn't understand why the first film was good. What makes the first film great is the cast in that specific jungle setting. We spent most of the film with that group of characters, and since the plot is so simple, they had a lot of time to show the characters interacting with one another and they all get their moments, like after Ventura dies, Arnie and Mac gets a good scene together. We don't really see Predator until the third act, and once that happens, the mystery is gone, we know what he looks like and how he operates. P2 tried to do the same thing in a different setting, but the cast isn't as strong or as interesting, and the same can be said about every other Predator sequel, because they just rehash the same slasher formula, but less effectively which is pointless because we already know what's killing the humans unlike the first film, so it's pointless to do the same.

After the first film, there is no need for the Predator to be mysterious, because that's not what makes him appealing. Certain characters should be mysterious, like The Joker, the less we know about him in a film, the more interesting he is, but that's because he's just a human, so knowing that his wife was killed or that he had a bad day, and thus that's what made him the way he is, it takes the mystery away and just makes him another guy. However, the Predator is an alien, a creature from another planet hunting humans with advanced technology, if anything it raises more questions, and exploring his kind and world, in no way does it affect the character at all, so I give credit to AVP and Predators for at least trying to explore that world, although I would have done it differently, and I wouldn't have included another familiar element like the Xenomorphs, which was just a little Easter egg in P2.

You know what was tasteless, not moving forward, remaining static , putting the Predator in a bathroom to sell some lame unfunny joke with an old lady and then have the Predator running around a hallway...that's more embarrassing than anything that AVP tried to do.

A human hunter hunts in the jungle or in a forest because that's where preys are at an Alien hunter hunting in the city because that is where game is is not illogical at all.

Evidently jungles have plenty of preys given that the character had been doing that for a long time against soldiers. Even in P2, Busey mentions that the Predator had been hunting humans for sport throughout armed conflicts in Central America. That's why the original and best film was set in a jungle. A lizard alien who hunts for a thrill in a modern city is plain stupid, which is why they tried to fix it by enhancing LA to a cartoonish level of violence to make sense of such a moronic idea, and in doing so they basically just copied Robocop's Detroit with similar looking thugs, except is a less memorable film.

He also got around Keyes' team despite having a en even more elaborate and sophisticated plan to get him. ??? No difference yet.

They had him, they were literally following him from the beginning of the film and they knew where he was and they went after him, and the only reason the Predator got around him was because their lights gave them away.

He becomes the prey in P2 too ? See? Still no difference, the city is very interesting, everybody losing their minds because of the heat and the crime, Harrigan seeing the cloaked Pred in the building with a look on his face wondering if it was a heat mirage, that **** was great.

Again...more rehashing, but done less effectively. Arnold uses the mud and fails when he loses the mud in the water, and in P2 their technology failed them, but again, it's overall less interesting than seeing Arnie discover a weakness he can exploit after being hunted through the entire film and see him dominated the alien with superior technology using the environment he's in briefly and then seeing it work against him. In P2, Busey was keeping track of the Predator from the beginning of the film, and Glover is just sort of there... he intervenes once Busey fails, but there's no real build up like in P1.

Home field advantage, huh? Yet it differs in nothing from what he does in P2... Trees are out of reach? It's not like Dutch went full Tarzan at the end right?

Through the film Arnie and his crew are on the ground...they don't even know what they are dealing with or where he is, until they realize he's using the trees. Only Billy kind had a feeling that they were dealing with something that wasn't human. It's not until the very end when Arnie has seen the Predator that he goes full Tarzan swinging from trees, and even then, he had the Predator next to him on the tree like a lizard. If anything it shows how both characters use the environment to their advantage. Cops know the city better than anyone, and Busey knew what they were dealing with from the beginning and was keeping track of the Predator.

Lack of knowledge of the area can be achieved in the city, but how is that related to the Predator himself?

Sure, but that wasn't really explored in P2, not like in P1 in which you have the crew in an unknown environment every second of the film. One of the elements that makes the first film work, is that the characters are trapped in unfamiliar area and they are trying to get from point A to point B...that's the whole plot, escape the jungle alive. In P2, the characters are familiar with their surroundings and it doesn't play role in the story....Glover is trying to solve a crime and the other two are trying to keep track of Busey. In P1 the Predator is on the trees watching their every move, waiting for them to split and leave the group in order to take each guy out, which is very tactical. When Jerry and all the other people got killed on the subway, it wasn't because they weren't familiar with a subway or because they knew they were being hunted by something that's probably watching them, they were trap and the Predator got them along with a bunch of other people. Same with Busey, he had knowledge of the setting before going in and he set a trap and it almost worked too, but their technology backfired because they didn't count on the Predator having a certain type of vision that allowed him to see the lights.

I'm not running away from it, I'm just not spoon feeding you.

That line of yours is just like Predator 2, uncreative, repetitive, and hollow....although I bet you can act better than Glover

The Hunter script? I missed that.

Not "The Hunter" script, the "Hunter" script, that's the Predator script...that's the name of the script, it wasn't called Predator back in 1986.

That's not spoon feeding, you were saying how P2 writing was "bad", yet you don't specify how? Because you don't remember it? Ok.

I mentioned the character's intro as an example compared to P2 and how it wasn't memorable....that has everything to do with the writing...

You keep saying P2 is cliche like if P1 wasn't, BOTH movies are LOADED with Cliches, I actually just found a thread in 4chan talking about the movie there's a post of a guy who describes it pretty well.

Predator: cliche commando movie with hints of strange **** until the second half
Predator 2:cliche detective movie with bits of strange **** until the second half

Speaking of which, did you start that thread? /tv/ - Now that the dust has settled... What does /tv/ th - Television & Film - 4chan

Since you like appealing to popularity, look at the amount of people who think "exploring" the Predators background is a stupid idea, I haven't posted there btw.

Predator gets a pass when it comes to cliches because the film is actually offering enough original material to be entertaining whereas P2, is using every 80's and 90's cliche and putting that on what was once original in P1. As far as what they might think about exploring Predators, it doesn't mean much since that idea is tainted by bad films, so no wonder they will blame it on the exploring the Predator world, look at you...

The acting from Blades and Alonso was iffy at times, not much outside that.

Blades was better than Danny Glover with his constant surprised sweaty face looking straight at the camera....great acting Danny. My god, you know an actor is bad, when Arnold was better as a protagonist in a similar film

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

TL;DR

 

[GasparZizou]

The reason all the sequels failed...and that includes P2, is because they didn't understand why the first film was good. What makes the first film great is the cast in that specific jungle setting. We spent most of the film with that group of characters, and since the plot is so simple, they had a lot of time to show the characters interacting with one another and they all get their moments, like after Ventura dies, Arnie and Mack get a good scene together. We don't really see Predator until the third act, and once that happens, the mystery is gone, we know what he looks like and how he operates. P2 tried to do the same thing in a different setting, but the cast isn't as strong or as interesting, and the same can be said about every other Predator sequel, because they just rehash the same slasher formula, but less effectively which is pointless because we already know what's killing the humans unlike the first film, so it's pointless to do the same.

Couldn't disagree more, but we're going in circles now.

After the first film, there is no need for the Predator to be mysterious, because that's not what makes him appealing. Certain characters should be mysterious, like The Joker, the less we know about him in a film, the more interesting he is, but that's because he's just a human, so knowing that his wife was killed or that he had a bad day, and thus that's what made him the way he is, it takes the mystery and just makes him another guy. However, the Predator is an alien, a creature from another planet hunting humans with advanced technology, if anything it raises more questions, and exploring his kind and world, in no way does it affect the character at all, so I give credit to AVP and Predators for at least trying to explore that world, although I would have done it differently, and I wouldn't have included another familiar element like the Xenomorphs, which was just a little Easter egg in P2.

It does very much affect the character, not only that, it's detrimental, you know what he LOOKS like, but you don't know anything about it.

You know what was tasteless, not moving forward, remaining static , putting the Predator in a bathroom to sell some lame unfunny joke with an old lady and then have the Predator running around a hallway...that's more embarrassing than anything AVP tried to do.

Evidently jungles have plenty of preys given that the character had been doing that for a long time against soldiers. Even in P2, Busey mentions that the Predator had been hunting humans for sport throughout armed conflicts in Central America. That's why the original and best film was set in a jungle. A lizard alien who hunts for a thrill in a modern city is plain stupid, which is why they tried to fix it by enhancing LA to a cartoonish level of violence to make sense of such a moronic idea, and in doing so they basically just copied Robocop's Detroit with similar looking thugs, except is a less memorable film.

Yet you haven't given any reasons yet as of why.

And no, I believe it was an exaggerated future like many movies from the 80's and 90's, like in Robocop.

They had him, they were literally following him from the beginning of the film and they knew where he was and they went after him, and the only reason the Predator got around him was because their lights gave them away.

Not sure what your point here is.

Again...more rehashing, but done less effectively. Arnold uses the mud and fails when he loses the mud in the water, and in P2 their technology failed them, but again, it's overall less interesting than seeing Arnie discover a weakness he can exploit after being hunted through the entire film and see him dominated the alien with superior technology using the environment he's in briefly and then seeing it work against him. In P2, Busey was keeping track of the Predator from the beginning of the film, and Glover is just sort of there... he intervenes once Busey fails, but there's no real build up like in P1.

I think it does it as effectively but whatever, so rehashing huh? So you do admit it's the same?

No real build up, all the MIB-esque foreshadowing isn't build up? Glover trying to figure it out, King Willy talking about demons, that's not build up?

Through the film Arnie and his crew are on the ground...they don't even know what they are dealing with or where he is, until they realize he's using the trees. Only Billy kind had a feeling that they were dealing with something that wasn't human. It's not until the very end when Arnie has seen the Predator that he goes full Tarzan swinging from trees, and even then, he had the Predator next to him on the tree like a lizard. If anything it shows how both characters use the environment to their advantage. Cops know the city better than anyone, and Busey knew what they were dealing with from the beginning and was keeping track of the Predator.

So this time Busey had the home field advantage, but the Predator still beat him, I'm not sure how this is supposed to support your point about the Jungle being inherently better???

Sure, but that wasn't really explored in P2, not like in P1 in which you have the crew in an unknown environment every second of the film. One of the elements that makes the first film work, is that the characters are trapped in unfamiliar area and they are trying to get from point A to point B...that's the whole plot, escape the jungle alive. In P2, the characters are familiar with their surroundings and it doesn't play role in the story....Glover is trying to solve a crime and the other two are trying to keep track of Busey. In P1 the Predator is on the trees watching their every move, waiting for them to split and leave the group in order to take each guy out, which is very tactical. When Jerry and all the other people got killed on the subway, it wasn't because they weren't familiar with a subway or because they knew they were being hunted by something that's probably watching them, they were trap and the Predator got them along with a bunch of other people. Same with Busey, he had knowledge of the setting before going in and he set a trap and it almost worked too, but their technology backfired because they didn't count on the Predator having a certain type of vision that allowed him to see the lights.

You do realize that in P2 the pred is also watching their every move right? Even killing them one by one too.

What I got from there is that P2 is actually more original than you're giving it credit for, after all, according to you, The Predator was being hunted from the beginning.

That line of yours is just like Predator 2, uncreative, repetitive, and hollow....although I bet you can act better than Glover

How else will you learn?

Not "The Hunter" script, the "Hunter" script, that's the Predator script...that's the name of the script, it wasn't called Predator back in 1986.

Oh, alright, I'll read it. Is it any different than what's in the movie?

I mentioned the character's intro as an example compared to P2 and how it wasn't memorable....that has everything to do with the writing...

We're yet again back on you having problems to remember stuff, why is it that I have no problem remembering stuff you don't? Again, memorable doesn't = good, I agree that P1's intro was iconic as ****, but Harrigan's intro is pretty good too.

Predator gets a pass when it comes to cliches because the film is actually offering enough original material to be entertaining whereas P2, is using every 80's and 90's cliche and putting that on what was once original in P1. As far as what they might think about exploring Predators, it doesn't mean much since that idea is tainted by bad films, so no wonder they will blame it on the exploring the Predator world, look at you...

P1 uses every 80's Rambo cliché, P2 uses every 90's cop cliche, P1 gets a pass, P2 doesn't, got it.

It's not because it's tainted by bad films, it's because it's a pretty bad idea to remove the mystery from a creature that relies on it, there's nothing that 99.999% of the artists/writers can tell that is more foreboding nor interesting than not knowing about the character, and letting the mind of both the audience and the characters wonder about the worst, P2 tackled this is a great way, they gave us just little hints to let our minds wonder, it let us know that they travel more worlds and they hunt other species other than humans, way larger species, they let us know that they probably live way longer than humans, they lets us know that they probably don't travel alone, but in little clans, etc etc. Not knowing also permits each character from each region imprint their own legends on it, P1 was el diablo cazador de hombres, very chupacabra type thing, P2 was a voodoo demon from the other side. etc etc.

Blades was better than Danny Glover with his constant surprised sweaty face looking straight at the camera....great acting Danny. My god, you know an actor is bad, when Arnold was better as a protagonist in a similar film

But he wasn't

 

[Jace Madan]

I like Predator 2. It's very entertaining to me, and I watch it all the time. It has it faults, and of course isn't as good as P1, but I like it.

I do like the city setting, I think it offers a a bit more variety in settings and places to have action in than differing Jungle terrains. We have the rooftops, alleys, subways, warehouses, and apartment buildings as well as other areas.. Although the characters being hunted live in or are familiar with the city, I don't think they know every nook and cranny of a sprawling city-scape, So the element of the unknown and isolation even in a place inhabited by people can still happen. Even in a panic your own home can become a scary and dangerous place. We see in Predator 2 and other media that the Predator is just as adept at climbing, jumping, and working his way through the city as it is through the jungle.

Another thing is the Predator's penchant for destroying himself and an area when a hunt fails to prevent their presence from being uncovered or technology being recovered, In a city, this makes a bigger challenge for the hunter compared to an isolated area. The entire "Concrete Jungle" game is about what happens when a Predator screws this up. I think this creates an interesting situation where the Predator not only has to conceal himself from it's prey, but also from discovery of non-prey as well. And it also increases the hunting difficulty level as the Predator will need to avoid dishonorable kills in an area full of non-prey life-forms.

I also love all of the new Predator technology introduced. The spear, smart disc, net launcher, spear darts and others are all great and feel right as part of the hunter's arsenal. I also like how it shows the Predator's "honor" a bit more in the Elder Predator allowing Harrigan to live and giving him a trophy from his own belt. I also really like how it showed how much damage a Predator can take. We see City Hunter shot multiple times, his hand and lower forearm cut off, and even take a while to die with a smart disc in his torso.

I dunno, I just like the movie. It's Voodoo magic man. I'd give it 3 out of 5 alien trophy skulls.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

It does very much affect the character, not only that, it's detrimental, you know what he LOOKS like, but you don't know anything about it.

What is? Not sure what you are referring to?

And no, I believe it was an exaggerated future like many movies from the 80's and 90's, like in Robocop.

Only way they could make sense of a Predator in a city. Nothing more to analyze, but like you said, we're going in circles.

Not sure what your point here is.

You mentioned something about the Predator getting around Keyes' team despite having a en even more elaborate and sophisticated plan to get him. All I said was that they succeeded but their lights gave them away. It had nothing to do with the Predator's skills or because he had knowledge of the place.

I think it does it as effectively but whatever, so rehashing huh? So you do admit it's the same?

No real build up, all the MIB-esque foreshadowing isn't build up? Glover trying to figure it out, King Willy talking about demons, that's not build up?

Trouble remembering things? It's been established and I repetitively said that P2 is a less effective version of P2 in a different setting...hence, not as original.

So this time Busey had the home field advantage, but the Predator still beat him, I'm not sure how this is supposed to support your point about the Jungle being inherently better???

He is dealing with an alien with alien technology and Busey is one of the film's antagonists. I explained how Dutch used the jungle and his environment in a more entertaining and in a more effective way using the mud when he discovered a weakness to exploit.

You do realize that in P2 the pred is also watching their every move right? Even killing them one by one too.

What I got from there is that P2 is actually more original than you're giving it credit for, after all, according to you, The Predator was being hunted from the beginning.

The idea of the hunter being hunted while he's hunting someone should be interesting, but it's poorly realized in the film...a bit of a waste just like the alien ship and the elder aliens showing up, all wasted opportunities.

Oh, alright, I'll read it. Is it any different than what's in the movie?

No, but it's very detail, kind of like a James Cameron T2 script. There are little differences with some of the lines like instead of, "What's the matter? The CIA got you pushing too many pencils?" it says, "they have you pushing too many pencils" or something like that...but the entire scene is exactly like the film, even describing the muscular glossy biceps

We're yet again back on you having problems to remember stuff, why is it that I have no problem remembering stuff you don't? Again, memorable doesn't = good, I agree that P1's intro was iconic as ****, but Harrigan's intro is pretty good too.

Sometimes when I say something is not memorable, it's not meant literally...it's meant figuratively I figure you understood that, so when I say that the characters are forgettable or that the intro is forgettable, it doesn't mean I literally don't remember anything, it just means, it's just another dime a dozen scene or intro...thus forgettable compared to other films with great scenes and classic moments. The Indy intro sequence is super iconic and classic...thus is memorable, but I literally remember the opening of The Punisher bust is that iconic and an all time memorable scene, in my opinion...no. The same concept applies to P2...as a film.

P1 uses every 80's Rambo cliché, P2 uses every 90's cop cliche, P1 gets a pass, P2 doesn't, got it.

Yes, because it makes up for it by giving us iconic moments and enough new material that you don't see in a Rambo movie, a Lethal Weapon movie or Die Hard. Sure, Rambo covered himself in mud to kill a guy...and he didn't do it accidentally, that was part of his tactics because he's amazing, but Predator does it differently by not only having Dutch doing it by accident, there's a huge iconic alien in the scene...and there's the little twist when Dutch realizes he can't be seen and finds a weakness on what's at that point an unstoppable creature.

It's not because it's tainted by bad films, it's because it's a pretty bad idea to remove the mystery from a creature that relies on it, there's nothing that 99.999% of the artists/writers can tell that is more foreboding nor interesting than not knowing about the character, and letting the mind of both the audience and the characters wonder about the worst, P2 tackled this is a great way, they gave us just little hints to let our minds wonder, it let us know that they travel more worlds and they hunt other species other than humans, way larger species, they let us know that they probably live way longer than humans, they lets us know that they probably don't travel alone, but in little clans, etc etc. Not knowing also permits each character from each region imprint their own legends on it, P1 was el diablo cazador de hombres, very chupacabra type thing, P2 was a voodoo demon from the other side. etc etc.

I couldn't disagree more, but I do believe one of the reasons you feel that way is because AVP didn't handled it well. You really wouldn't want to see a Predator that explores other worlds, with a none human protagonist, and still having the Predator race as an antagonist fighting a new alien (not xenomorph) protagonist? Keeping the Predator as a hunter on earth using the same Friday the 13th formula is so limiting and it was already done perfectly in P1.

But he wasn't

He sounded a little weird in a few scenes for some reason...but he's way more tolerable than Glover in his sweaty MC hammer pants

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

TL;DR

 

[GasparZizou]

What is? Not sure what you are referring to?

Removing the mystery.

You mentioned something about the Predator getting around Keyes' team despite having a en even more elaborate and sophisticated plan to get him. All I said was that they succeeded but their lights gave them away. It had nothing to do with the Predator's skills or because he had knowledge of the place.

Yeah but what was this point about? we're losing it man

Trouble remembering things? It's been established and I repetitively said that P2 is a less effective version of P2 in a different setting...hence, not as original.

You established that, I disagreed. But I mean you keep saying it's not memorable, I wonder why I don't have problem remembering the stuff you say it's not memorable.

He is dealing with an alien with alien technology and Busey is one of the film's antagonists. I explained how Dutch used the jungle and his environment in a more entertaining and in a more effective way using the mud when he discovered a weakness to exploit.

Isn't Keyes using the environment as well?

The idea of the hunter being hunted while he's hunting someone should be interesting, but it's poorly realized in the film...a bit of a waste just like the alien ship and the elder aliens showing up, all wasted opportunities.

I guess we disagree yet again

No, but it's very detail, kind of like a James Cameron T2 script. There are little differences with some of the lines like instead of, "What's the matter? The CIA got you pushing too many pencils?" it says, "they have you pushing too many pencils" or something like that...but the entire scene is exactly like the film, even describing the muscular glossy biceps

You had me at glossy biceps.

Sometimes when I say something is not memorable, it's not meant literally...it's meant figuratively I figure you understood that, so when I say that the characters are forgettable or that the intro is forgettable, it doesn't mean I literally don't remember anything, it just means, it's just another dime a dozen scene or intro...thus forgettable compared to other films with great scenes and classic moments. The Indy intro sequence is super iconic and classic...thus is memorable, but I literally remember the opening of The Punisher bust is that iconic and an all time memorable scene, in my opinion...no. The same concept applies to P2...as a film.

Alright alright.

Yes, because it makes up for it by giving us iconic moments and enough new material that you don't see in a Rambo movie, a Lethal Weapon movie or Die Hard. Sure, Rambo covered himself in mud to kill a guy...and he didn't do it accidentally, that was part of his tactics because he's amazing, but Predator does it differently by not only having Dutch doing it by accident, there's a huge iconic alien in the scene...and there's the little twist when Dutch realizes he can't be seen and finds a weakness on what's at that point an unstoppable creature.

But P2 has also tons of awesome and not only memorable, unique.

I couldn't disagree more, but I do believe one of the reasons you feel that way is because AVP didn't handled it well. You really wouldn't want to see a Predator that explores other worlds, with a none human protagonist, and still having the Predator race as an antagonist fighting a new alien (not xenomorph) protagonist? Keeping the Predator as a hunter on earth using the same Friday the 13th formula is so limiting and it was already done perfectly in P1.

It has nothing to do with AVP, I love the Aztecs and Mayans, so it wasn't that. It's the fact of knowing about them.

No I would not, by removing scared human characters the predator loses a big chunk of its charm imo, it happened with Predators, the whole Superpredator thing was super retarded

I don't think it's limiting at all, hell, there's nothing wrong with repeating the formula when the formula is great, you keep saying how P2 is just a rehash, and it may be true at core, but it also has tons of original stuff sprinkled on top. Jace Madan makes an excellent point about it.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Another thing is the Predator's penchant for destroying himself and an area when a hunt fails to prevent their presence from being uncovered or technology being recovered, In a city, this makes a bigger challenge for the hunter compared to an isolated area. The entire "Concrete Jungle" game is about what happens when a Predator screws this up. I think this creates an interesting situation where the Predator not only has to conceal himself from it's prey, but also from discovery of non-prey as well. And it also increases the hunting difficulty level as the Predator will need to avoid dishonorable kills in an area full of non-prey life-forms.

That sounds cool, if the Predator was the protagonist of the film and not the villain, but instead we're stuck with Danny Glover

 

[Darkseed]

Blade Trinity: 5/10 - RR first stint as DP. Also the classic Blade line: " I was born ready Mother ****er"....some good stuff in there.