Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16) *SPOILERS*

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

There was a time when ''strong female character'' didn't necessarily mean ''totally and completely infallible''. I'll stick with Ripley (Alien 1-3) and Sarah Connor.

Even the Bride from Kill Bill >>>>>Rey

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

I guess some other character crashed the falcon all over a junkyard, released the rathtars, got emotionally unstable and ran into the clutches of the enemy. And certainly there's no precedent in the Star Wars universe for any character with innate piloting skills and force sensitivity after a pep talk by an old person.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

I'll stick with Ripley (Alien 1-3) and Sarah Connor.

Dat maternal strength.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

There was a time when ''strong female character'' didn't necessarily mean ''totally and completely infallible''. I'll stick with Ripley (Alien 1-3) and Sarah Connor.

Yep, even Leia in TFA is a better female character imo, a leader, old (I know she wouldn't appreciate it but old people rock ), tough, experience and with her cool smoker voice

 

[Entropy]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

Good MS points made but there are some good points in this article as well and some I don't agree with: Forbes Welcome

There are obviously different ways to interpret and often that interpretation has to do with inherent, unavoidable bias.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

I forgot she did that instant Jedi mind trick thing too after somehow getting multiple tries. Thanks Forbes.

 

[crows]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

Katnis, -vergent series girl, Rey, now Jyn.... seems like young girls kick more ass than boys these days.

I blame Hayden Christiansen.

they all look like clones. they even all sound the same, I dont get it. They are all white.
I love how when it comes to progressive people in Hollywood, "Diversity" always means "more white actresses" and I dont even have a problem with that, but then dont bash us over the head with the whole "WE NEED DIVERSITY IN HOLLYWOOD" thing that people are doing, Look at the Ghostbusters new movie.... Paul Feig keeps screaming about diversity and yet... well, yeah.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

I forgot she did that instant Jedi mind trick thing too. Thanks Forbes.

Why didn't she just tell the storm trooper to help her escape?

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

I guess some other character crashed the falcon all over a junkyard, released the rathtars, got emotionally unstable and ran into the clutches of the enemy. And certainly there's no precedent in the Star Wars universe for any character with innate piloting skills and force sensitivity after a pep talk by an old person.

All of that worked out surprisingly well after for her immediately thought, didn't it? Even when she screws up she ends up saving the day. Is there anything more Mary Sue than that?

Say Luke and Annakin had "innate" piloting skills, and even in the case of Anakin, that even derived from force sensitivity, but that's they only thing they were good at.

And even if they were as prodigious as Rey in all skills required for the plot, which they weren't and they were faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from it, they still made many more mistakes, had more weaknesses and personality traits that worked against them and made many many more mistakes than Rey, AND they often were not liked by other characters.

Nah, son, she's a Mary Sue, no way around it.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

Isn't Katniss a perfect example of a Mary Sue? Or does she have magical powers too?

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

All of that worked out surprisingly well after for her immediately thought, didn't it? Even when she screws up she ends up saving the day. Is there anything more Mary Sue than that?

Say Luke and Annakin had "innate" piloting skills, and even in the case of Anakin, that even derived from force sensitivity, but that's they only thing they were good at.

And even if they were as prodigious as Rey in all skills required for the plot, which they weren't and they were faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from it, they still made many more mistakes, had more weaknesses and personality traits that worked against them and made many many more mistakes than Rey, AND they often were not liked by other characters.

Nah, son, she's a Mary Sue, no way around it.

So now "perfect" isn't part of your definition anymore. How did I know that would happen?


"Son?"

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

Good MS points made but there are some good points in this article as well and some I don't agree with: Forbes Welcome

There are obviously different ways to interpret and often that interpretation has to do with inherent, unavoidable bias.

I read that long ago.

>Everybody liked Luke
>Everybody liked Han
>Has to make up scenarios that Rey would have to overcome to finally be considered a MS by the author even though those scenarios have nothing to do with her.

If there's bias, it comes from people like him.

Sure the term has changed over time, fine, in the current, modern meaning, she's objectively and Mary Sue.

So now "perfect" isn't part of your definition anymore. How did I know that would happen?


"Son?"

I never said perfect though, a Mary Sue will make mistakes or have bad traits that don't actually affect her negatively.

"Perfect" is subjective, Mary Sue is not.

I'm speaking dank ghetto, son!

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

Isn't Katniss a perfect example of a Mary Sue? Or does she have magical powers too?

That's Mystique bro.

 

[GeekedOutMoonie]

Re: Star Wars stand-alone/spin-off films discussion

Darn, I was rooting for the actress from Orphan Black. I think she's amazing.

Yes!! Love her, she's absolutely bad ass.

 

[Entropy]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

When all you've got is a hammer, all you see are nails. If one thing is certain it's that discussion forums are a hot bed of confirmation bias and inductive reasoning.


That said, the trailer looks slick and I'm looking forward to this movie, if only to see classic Vader kick some ass.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

I'm sure you've called her perfect before but aside from that your current definition is that she can do whatever the plot requires without effort which is also not so. Though I imagine you'll say it wasn't enough effort next.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

When all you've got is a hammer, all you see are nails. If one thing is certain its that disscuion forums are a hot bed of confirmation bias and inductive reasoning.

Nope, I see nails, then I pick up the hammer. Some people see nails, and they don't think they're nails so they pick up duct tape. At least regarding this issue.

So yeah you're right about the bias.

I'm sure you've called her perfect before but aside from that your current definition is that she can do whatever the plot requires without effort which is also not so. Though I imagine you'll say it wasn't enough effort next.

Like I said, perfect is subjective, if I ever called her "perfect", I meant she's perfect for the plot, but I don't recall calling her that.

No, it is so. Unless you mean the effort that is required to move the arm up to force grab the lightsaber, then sure, it does take her some effort. And you're forgetting all the other MS traits she fits right into.

 

[Entropy]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

Nope, I see nails, then I pick up the hammer. Some people see nails, and they don't think they're nails so they pick up duct tape. At least regarding this issue.

So yeah you're right about the bias.

While other people pleasure themselves in bean bag chairs and eat Cheetos.
Gotta love the interwebz.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

Poor cameraman. He didn't deserve this.

I thought that was Ian Mckellen as a white Magneto or something. Is that the annoying dude with the lisp that Bane rapes from TDKR?


View attachment 257307

You've obviously never seen Bloodline. That guy is ****ing awesome.

Mary Sue's (and Marty Stu's) are typically portrayed as overly perfect/idealistic characters within fan fiction.

Since Batman V Superman Superman is Jesus, I guess that makes him a Marty Stu.

Luke is a **** up throughout the original movies.

- Sandpeople beat him up and knock him out (Obi-Wan saves him)
- Cantina patrons rough him up (Obi-Wan saves him)
- he almost gets blown up by Vader (until Han Solo shows up and saves him)
- Han mocks him because Luke thinks he's a hotshot pilot when he's really not
- can't deflect remote bolts, gets shot in the leg/ass which Han also mocks
- he can't communicate with R2 without a translator
- Leia saves him in a rescue mission for HER, even makes fun of him

He's whiny, vulnerable, impatient, can't lift X-Wings, gets his hand chopped off, etc. etc. In original treatments and deleted scenes he was known as "wormy" and Biggs is the only one that liked him.

Compare that to Rey who would have beaten up the Sandpeople and cantina patrons single-handedly with her staff (like she did with the Jakku thugs). Knows the Millennium Falcon better than Han and Chewie (much to Han's own surprise). Quips that she doen't need no blaster. Can use the force and wield a lightsaber with ease by just thinking hard about it. Expert pilot, expert marksman (the Troopers right before the Kylo Ren scene). Can communicate with all droids and aliens. Gets a job offer from Han and knows pretty much everything but why she was abandoned and how/why she has all these new found powers (da force is calling to her).

It took Luke 3 movies to go from this,


View attachment 257325


To this,


View attachment 257324


And even then he gets wrecked by the Emperor and only survives because of the love of his father . . . or something.

There was a time when ''strong female character'' didn't necessarily mean ''totally and completely infallible''. I'll stick with Ripley (Alien 1-3) and Sarah Connor.

I haven't been following this argument, that apparently was raging regarding Force Awakens. But I'm with you guys. It definitely stuck out to me that Rey was way too impressive than she should have been. But then, my theory is that she'll turn to the dark side, as a function of this. When you get power too easily, you can't really appreciate it. Kylo will end up redeeming himself by taking out Evil Queen Rey.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16)

Also, if the Rey/Mary Sue thing wasn't true, or atleast half true, there wouldn't be so many discussions, videos and articles about it. It's not just something that spawned out of nowhere. There must be something there if you have droves of people having to come in and rescue the critique with long, ranting blogs that attempt to contradict each and every point people have made.

If it weren't an issue, nobody would be talking about it. It would have never been brought up or be so widespread. These things don't just come out of nowhere. People saw the movie and noticed it. Plain and simple. Cover your ears and shake your head all you want, it is what it is.