Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16) *SPOILERS*

[jye4ever]

I hope they fire Trevor Tomorrow from IX and give it to Gareth lol

 

[Khev]

**** you Khev, I need to see Aragorn spit out Ewoyn's nasty soup and Lurtz lick that knife.

Nobody likes a longer ROTK, nobody!

The "perfect" FOTR would have been theatrical + extra Amon Hen footage and nothing else. But since the EE gave us all the other crap that reduced the overall quality then Theatrical FTW.

The theatrical ROTK wasn't perfect and neither was the EE. But the EE actually gives a satisfying resolution to Saruman so that makes it a must.

 

[Khev]

I hope they fire Trevor Tomorrow from IX and give it to Gareth lol

Well they can fire Trevorrow but I think SW is at its best when no one directs more than one film. If only poor Lucas had stuck to that idea.

 

[Wor-Gar]

That's impossible. Editors cannot make a great film out of crappy footage.

That's actually not entirely true... if you have enough footage of every possibility, you CAN cut a good scene.... and string enough good scenes together and you have a good movie. Many films are made in the editing room.

That said, I was never arguing that Rogue One is a good movie. In fact I said it's actually not. But its a good Star Wars movie.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I think we're all having our week. Menstural cycles are a ***** innitt.

No kidding, right?

*********. C'mere and give me a hug Greg...

No sweat; healthy debate and all that. I am always in your debt for the Gimli bash tutorial.

 

[Khev]

That's actually not entirely true... if you have enough footage of every possibility, you CAN cut a good scene.... and string enough good scenes together and you have a good movie. Many films are made in the editing room.

Well again no, unless the "every possibility" portion of your quote refers to *well directed scenes.* Then yeah, if the director provided enough of those for the editors to take advantage of then sure they can capitalize. But no editor works in a vacuum. I think that what you're assuming is that like the OT and PT Gareth directed good scenes and not so good scenes (probably true on both counts) and that HE would have edited the film with the bad scenes but his editors saved the day by only keeping the good stuff. That's really the only scenario that would have editors "saving" the movie from the director but there's no evidence to indicate that that actually happened.

That said, I was never arguing that Rogue One is a good movie. In fact I said it's actually not. But its a good Star Wars movie.

Ah, I never saw such a post from you. That helps. Now that I know that you thought it was a bad film it makes more sense as to why you always seem to reverse engineer the filmmaking process in ways that cater to "what went wrong." I personally don't think a "good" SW movie can be a "bad" film overall so obviously we'll have a hard time seeing eye to eye on that one.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Well again no, unless the "every possibility" portion of your quote refers to *well directed scenes.* Then yeah, if the director provided enough of those for the editors to take advantage of then sure they can capitalize. But no editor works in a vacuum. I think that what you're assuming is that like the OT and PT Gareth directed good scenes and not so good scenes (probably true on both counts) and that HE would have edited the film with the bad scenes but his editors saved the day by only keeping the good stuff. That's really the only scenario that would have editors "saving" the movie from the director but there's no evidence to indicate that that actually happened.

OK, you answered your own question, good. Star Wars is not known for powerful acting. Not even for good acting. I think the scenes could be directed by mediocre talent and come out well (as was proved by ROTJ). So a lot of the pacing, timing, and "acting" is driven by editorial choices. But Gareth is a better director than that, so yeah -- the editors had plenty to work with. But ask almost any director and they will say the movie is made in the editing room.

Ah, I never saw such a post from you. That helps. Now that I know that you thought it was a bad film it makes more sense as to why you always seem to reverse engineer the filmmaking process in ways that cater to "what went wrong." I personally don't think a "good" SW movie can be a "bad" film overall so obviously we'll have a hard time seeing eye to eye on that one.

Don't get me wrong again -- you always jump to conclusions so fast like a child -- I love Rogue One. But I can see that its a flawed movie. The acting is uneven, there's a great lacking of character development throughout, the motivations don't always make sense from scene to scene, on and on. The serious reshoots might be part to blame, but then a good movie wouldn't need serious reshoots, would it? But despite its flaws, its still works on a Star Wars level. It's a very good Star Wars movie. Not that the bar for that is too high. And I personally prefer it to "Jedi", so its the best thing since ESB to me. But I can recognize what it is. I can break it down, and not to justify its problems as benefits, but see it for what it is: a good Star Wars movie. Without that glue, I think people would be ripping this movie apart.

 

[Khev]

Don't get me wrong again -- you always jump to conclusions so fast like a child -- I love Rogue One.

Who's jumping to conclusions kiddo? I never said you *didn't* love it, I was just acknowledging that as an overall film you thought it was supbar.

But I can see that its a flawed movie. The acting is uneven, there's a great lacking of character development, the motivations don't always make sense from scene to scene, on and on.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Come on... I know you don't think its a perfect movie. If its not "good" its "bad" is too simplistic. I'm hitting my head against the wall with this one but... "Jedi" is a really poorly made film, you must know this, nostalgia aside. That doesn't mean it still isn't the 4th (or 3rd) best Star Wars.

It can be a poorly made movie and still be enjoyable. Look at Burton's Batman.

 

[DiFabio]

Star Wars is not known for powerful acting. Not even for good acting.

Pfft. It was a powerhouse in terms of acting.

Spoiler

Okay, maybe not.

 

[Wor-Gar]

That Leia line is OT cringe-worthy.

You don't get that much, but when you do... it's Marquand's genius at work. And many other people helping.

 

[Khev]

I see, ROTJ and Batman. If that's where you put Rogue One then I can see how it'd be harder to quantify on the good/bad scale. I think that Batman 89 has redeeming value and can be fun to watch if I'm really in the mood for it but overall I always considered it a disappointment. And ROTJ while entertaining in very significant ways is SUCH a half-assed step down from SW and ESB. There's no way I could put RO in either category but I see where you're coming from.

I just haven't seen any evidence of any "bad" footage that Gareth filmed that had to be wrestled out of the film by the editors. It's all just supposition. Every indication even with regard to the reshoots is that they were simply pushing themselves to take all the "good" and make it "great."

 

[DiFabio]

That Leia line is OT cringe-worthy.

That whole scene is bad. It's shot poorly too. The worst is when Han comes out and Leia starts crying. It's like a ****** soap opera.


Hold me Wor, hold me.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Don't get me wrong again -- you always jump to conclusions so fast like a child

Who's jumping to conclusions kiddo?

You kind of do sometimes and then you come across as snarky

I saw it! I was there. I saw it all.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I see, ROTJ and Batman. If that's where you put Rogue One then I can see how it'd be harder to quantify on the good/bad scale. I think that Batman 89 has redeeming value and can be fun to watch if I'm really in the mood for it but overall I always considered it a disappointment. And ROTJ while entertaining in very significant ways is SUCH a half-assed step down from SW and ESB. There's no way I could put RO in either category but I see where you're coming from.

I think once the luster wears off RO, it's problems will be more clearly seen.

If we agree on Batman and Jedi, then perhaps, one day, we too can agree on this.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I saw it! I was there. I saw it all.

You will be there one day too, my young 1982 year old child.

 

[Khev]

If we agree on Batman and Jedi, then perhaps, one day, we too can agree on this.

Obi-Wan once thought as you do.

 

[Wor-Gar]

And now he's dead. Join me.

 

[Khev]

I just haven't seen any evidence of any "bad" footage that Gareth filmed that had to be wrestled out of the film by the editors. It's all just supposition. Every indication even with regard to the reshoots is that they were simply pushing themselves to take all the "good" and make it "great."

Now I have to quote myself because you responded too quickly while I was adding to my post.

 

[DiFabio]

Aw, that sounds like such a sweet movie making fairy tale!