Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16) *SPOILERS*

[TonTon]

Cause modern day action movie fan service > continuity of movies. I'm sure folks will explain it away in various ways, but it just doesn't really make sense to me either.

 

[Dr. Odd]

It is the first time we've seen Vader in a fight that wasn't personal...

 

[TaliBane]

I'm sorry if someone already brought this up. At the end of the movie when Vader demonstrated his lightsaber skills and the use of the Force really took me by surprise. But then why don't we see that anymore during ANH, ESB, ROTJ? His skills versus Obi-Wan in ANH, and vs. Luke in ESB and ROTJ were lackluster in comparison. That scene in Rogue One was the first time we've seen Vader in full force, in costume.

He had just watched the PT and was surprised to remember Yoda was a somersaulting blur of lightsaber back in the day.

Thought he'd give it a shot, but put his back out. So in the OT he's nursing a groin injury and a slipped disc - in that context he does pretty well against Ben and Luke.

 

[Khev]

RO Vader: Full Terminator murder mode
ANH Vader: Toying with his old master
ESB Vader: Going easy on Luke because he wanted to join forces with his son, not kill him
ROTJ Vader: Basically a big sissy but so was everyone in ROTJ. Otherwise I'd say he was "conflicted" and still wanting Luke to join him

 

[TaliBane]

RO Vader: Full Terminator murder mode
ANH Vader: Toying with his old master
ESB Vader: Going easy on Luke because he wanted to join forces with his son, not kill him
ROTJ Vader: Basically a big sissy but so was everyone in ROTJ. Otherwise I'd say he was "conflicted" and still wanting Luke to join him

"Toying" as Rebels run out of the station with the Princess who got away with the plans the first time? Genius of the year award for Vader yet again.

 

[Khev]

Do you even like Star Wars Talibane?

Does it upset you that Tarkin didn't just blow up Yavin? Or that the X-Wings didn't just dive bomb the exhaust port from space (where it'd be a direct shot instead of a 90 degree angle.) Or that the snowspeeders didn't just attack the AT-AT's from behind? Or that the Falcon was unguarded on Cloud City, etc., etc.?

I could go on with many other examples but it seems like you want these new movies to represent a version of Star Wars that never existed in the first place.

 

[pixletwin]

I'm sorry if someone already brought this up. At the end of the movie when Vader demonstrated his lightsaber skills and the use of the Force really took me by surprise. But then why don't we see that anymore during ANH, ESB, ROTJ? His skills versus Obi-Wan in ANH, and vs. Luke in ESB and ROTJ were lackluster in comparison. That scene in Rogue One was the first time we've seen Vader in full force, in costume.

He didn't want to kill Luke.

I think he wanted to savor his duel with Obiwan, rather than blow his jism in 5 seconds.

Or those movies were made before RO and the performance was up to production standards for the time.

Edit: Just saw that other excellent folk have already made the point. :

 

[jye4ever]

Well there is bts footage of Hamill doing as good as Ray Park while training for ESB.

But whatever i'm team Khev/RO so i'm ok with the discrepancies the size of episode 8 Snoke.

 

[Wor-Gar]

"Toying" as Rebels run out of the station with the Princess who got away with the plans the first time? Genius of the year award for Vader yet again.

Classic Talibane post above (complete with lecture emoji).

You forget, Vader allowed them to escape to track them. 'memba?

 

[TonTon]

Classic Talibane post above. You forget, he allowed them to escape to track them. 'memba?

But they never realized, or at least acknowledged, that R2 was there at the death star. Sneaky little bugger.

 

[Wor-Gar]

At the end of the movie when Vader demonstrated his lightsaber skills and the use of the Force really took me by surprise. But then why don't we see that anymore during ANH, ESB, ROTJ?

Is this a serious question?

 

[Captain Clown]

Vader threw his hip out doing all those cool force moves. That's why he doesn't do it anymore.

 

[DiFabio]

That wasn't the real Vader in Rogue One, it was one of Vader's body doubles. That's how the real Vader catches Leia so fast. He was really in another ship that intercepts them. The Vader we see at the end of RO was just one of his stand ins.

 

[TaliBane]

Do you even like Star Wars Talibane?

Does it upset you that Tarkin didn't just blow up Yavin? Or that the X-Wings didn't just dive bomb the exhaust port from space (where it'd be a direct shot instead of a 90 degree angle.) Or that the snowspeeders didn't just attack the AT-AT's from behind? Or that the Falcon was unguarded on Cloud City, etc., etc.?

I could go on with many other examples but it seems like you want these new movies to represent a version of Star Wars that never existed in the first place.

Would this be a bad time to preview my "that don't make no sense" Rogue-One-Retcon list?

It might give you time to come up with more fan suppositions and make 'em sound like they're actually in the movies.

Classic Talibane post above (complete with lecture emoji).

You forget, Vader allowed them to escape to track them. 'memba?

Don't go all swinging pelts and spittle on me now, TMZ.

How does discussing a fan supposition about "toying" (that has NO basis in what's actually onscreen) vs. a classic duel to the death between old foes (described in the script and shot as such) have anything to do with the idea of letting them escape?

So if Vader's "toying" with Ben, why does Vader force Ben backwards and out into FULL VIEW of the Falcon, the ship he's hoping the rest of the rebels will imminently use to get away? Isn't it more likely - just so "toying" Vader doesn't get yet another Genius Award - that it's an actual hard-fought duel (that inadvertently leads into full view of the Falcon) and killing Ben quickly would be a smart idea? And given the way the duel ends, with Ben's smile and sacrifice, isn't it more conceivable that the thematic intention was Ben toying with Vader, and not the other way around?

I mean based on what's onscreen, right - and not based on an unfounded fan supposition (that undermines a classic OT moment) solely made to prop up some last minute Rogue One retconning.

Or... maybe that's just more Classic Talibane Logic.

Cause modern day action movie fan service > continuity of movies. I'm sure folks will explain it away in various ways, but it just doesn't really make sense to me either.

Looks like TonTon bullseyed the Womp Rats AND got one right down the ol' thermal exhaust port.

 

[Darkseed]

That's how the real Vader catches Leia so fast. He was really in another ship that intercepts them..

After all this time, I figured Vader ordered ludicrous speed to outrun her. Oh the inconsistency now weighs heavily on my troubled mind

 

[Khev]

Would this be a bad time to preview my "that don't make no sense" Rogue-One-Retcon list?

Knock yourself out, though if it's just going to be more self-congratulatory hemming and hawing about inconsistencies that are either painfully obvious or no worse than the retcons made by ESB and ROTJ you might want to save yourself the embarrassment...

It might give you time to come up with more fan suppositions and make 'em sound like they're actually in the movies.

Fan supposition is a prerequisite for any prequel. What I find strange is that that either isn't obvious to you, or that you find yourself so enlightened compared to us that you believe it *isn't* obvious to everyone else. I'm not sure why you're spending any time at all citing evidence that ANH was made with no knowledge of the specifics of RO. It isn't a secret that RO came decades later. Everyone knows.

The fun part is simply *choosing* to reinterpret elements of ANH to match RO. Yes that's fan supposition as a result of the new narrative. Which is actually no different than learning that Vader is Luke's father in ESB and then going back to ANH and "pretending" that Ben was lying to Luke when he said Vader murdered his father. Same with the twins thing. Retcon is nothing new.

I find your logic on the topic questionable and your standards selective at best. You trumpet "what's on screen" and then cite the ANH script as proof that Vader was going all out against Ben. Was the script on screen? No. Whatever is said or done on screen trumps the page. And Vader literally said point blank "When last we met I was but the learner, now I am the master." And his actions in RO absolutely drove that point home.

But from your previous posts I can only assume that your selective logic and inconsistent criticisms will create a never ending circle of repetitive (yet easily answered) questions of "but how come......?" and "then why did.....?" and so on. And more often than not the answer will simply be "because these are Star Wars films and not The Imitation Game." And for most of us who have accepted the inconsistencies and dodgy tactics since the OT that will be just fine.

 

[TaliBane]

Knock yourself out, though if it's just going to be more self-congratulatory hemming and hawing about inconsistencies that are either painfully obvious or no worse than the retcons made by ESB and ROTJ you might want to save yourself the embarrassment...



Fan supposition is a prerequisite for any prequel. What I find strange is that that either isn't obvious to you, or that you find yourself so enlightened compared to us that you believe it *isn't* obvious to everyone else. I'm not sure why you're spending any time at all citing evidence that ANH was made with no knowledge of the specifics of RO. It isn't a secret that RO came decades later. Everyone knows.

The fun part is simply *choosing* to reinterpret elements of ANH to match RO. Yes that's fan supposition as a result of the new narrative. Which is actually no different than learning that Vader is Luke's father in ESB and then going back to ANH and "pretending" that Ben was lying to Luke when he said Vader murdered his father. Same with the twins thing. Retcon is nothing new.

I find your logic on the topic questionable and your standards selective at best. You trumpet "what's on screen" and then cite the ANH script as proof that Vader was going all out against Ben. Was the script on screen? No. Whatever is said or done on screen trumps the page. And Vader literally said point blank "When last we met I was but the learner, now I am the master." And his actions in RO absolutely drove that point home.

But from your previous posts I can only assume that your selective logic and inconsistent criticisms will create a never ending circle of repetitive (yet easily answered) questions of "but how come......?" and "then why did.....?" and so on. And more often than not the answer will simply be "because these are Star Wars films and not The Imitation Game." And for most of us who have accepted the inconsistencies and dodgy tactics since the OT that will be just fine.

"enlightened"... yes. In such short supply.

In the other thread I just had to defend a fellow Freak (who didn't like RO) who was being mobbed with the "are you a real fan?" "what's wrong with you?" - the same enlightened "do you even like Star Wars?" garbage that you lobbed at me, and the same thing you can see everywhere. The mob mentality - the nerd-herd voted, the geekmeter peaked, so disagree at your peril.

I remember watching a RO Youtube review by a high profile fan reviewer (who gets tens of thousands of views) who was really lukewarm on RO, didn't really like it - and you could tell that he was really, really, REALLY nervous about saying it, and even felt the need to post a follow-up ("So I've mulled this overnight...") further explaining. It's the dark underbelly of your whole side of the argument, isn't it? Mocking and questions of "loyalty" and "love".

And FYI - the OT is the OT, retcons and all. It has stood the test of time. The retcons are loved. What I'm saying is by all means make your hard prequel (i.e. "movie set inside an OT movie") - however creatively bankrupt that may be - but don't mess with my enjoyment of the OT, or introduce elements that make OT elements questionable or non-sensical.

"Well don't watch RO then, stick to your OT!" I hear the boo-hoos say? Weeeell, all I say to you is Hayden had no place at an Ewok Barbeque, and going forward, I don't have any choice but to buy a movie that has Hayden at an Ewok Barbeque in it. You get where I'm going with that?




And re: your "Was the script on screen? No." comments - along with your sole crediting of Gareth Edwards for RO - says you know nothing about what a screenplay is, or how RO was actually made. "If it's not on the page, it's not on the stage," an adage as old as the movie industry, is something you probably need to familiarize yourself with. It's not some kind of "sketch" - it's what every person on the production INCLUDING the director and actors follow TO THE LETTER. You act as if a building's blueprint is some kind of basic pencil sketch and the builders just kinda "make it up on site" from there.

And FYI in this case - what's in the script is EXACTLY what's onscreen, so I have no idea what you mean. Two people who knew each other well and who are desperately fighting to the death would trade mocking barbs, right? There is no evidence onscreen WHATSOEVER that Vader is "toying" with Ben and not fighting as hard as he can, so - yet again - don't try to diminish a classic OT moment with your fan retconning. Done solely to make plausible a last minute fanboy service moment that - first rate production values aside - is precisely the kind of fanjiz you'd see in a youtube SW fan film.

 

[jye4ever]

Was it Chris Stuckman?

 

[DiFabio]

Ewok Barbucue, I like that. If I could go back in 08' and pick another user name, I would have picked Ewokbbq.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Ewok Barbucue, I like that. If I could go back in 08' and pick another user name, I would have picked Ewokbbq.

just pay 25$ and get rid of those sons of anarchy back tattoo ads!

ah the good ol' days, where blackmask could change his name daily without running up a tab.